When Fitness Turns Into Punishment: What Actually Keeps Women Fit in Midlife, with Ellen Barrett

Fitness expert Ellen Barrett explains why exercise often feels punishing in midlife, and the movement principles that reliably keep women strong, energized, and fit. We talk alignment, posture, hydration, energy, building muscle, and why exercise should restore you, not drain you. 

Ellen Barrett, the iconic fitness expert known for making movement feel like magic, talks about why fitness stopped being fun for so many of us, and how to get it back. She shares the secret sauce behind movement that nourishes instead of drains, why alignment is your new midlife superpower, and how simple daily habits can radically shift your energy and truly keep you fit. We dig into the deeply underrated power of self-compassion.

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Transcript

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Hey, friend, is it just me, or are you sick of hearing that we all have to lift heavy, or our bones are going to crumble into dust? My guest today is going to set the record straight. Ellen Barrett is full of love, wisdom, compassion, and actually knows what works when it comes to getting a fit, healthy body. Speaking of healthy, if you would like to add more plant based meals to your life that are packed with fiber and nutrients. Download my free cookbook at, well, elephant.com after the show. I made the cookbook for you with love and adapted some of your favorite foods like sloppy joes, cupcakes, and spring rolls with peanut sauce to make them whole food plant based oil free, and low fat. And if you're really ready to take control of your health and heal your body the way I did, check out my online class is plant based eating while you're there. I want to thank you again for listening and for sharing this podcast, honestly. You have helped us jump into the top 5% of all podcast, all podcasts. I couldn't be more grateful to each and every one of you. And thank you, thank you. Thank you. No, I mean it. Okay. Enough rambling. Let's hear from Ellen. Hi, friend. Are you looking to age healthfully, confidently and vibrantly? Then this podcast is for you. Smart, slightly salty, irreverent, and thought provoking. I'm Lauren Bernick and this is age. Like a badass mother. Ellen Barrett is a renowned fit pro, author and studio owner who has created some of the biggest bestselling workouts of all time, including crunch, Fat Burning, Pilates and The Yogini Workout. She starred in fit TV's all star workouts and was a spokeswoman for Supreme Pilates Pro on HSN, and co-wrote the 28 Days Lighter Diet. Her focus these days is Let's Move, her online movement studio, which launched in 2018. Please welcome Ellen Barrett. Ellen, hi. Hi. It's so good to be here. It's so good to talk to you. You are just lovely. The embodiment of of fit and healthy. And, I love your silver hair. It's gorgeous. They win. When did. How can I ask how old you are? I'm 54, 54, and I decided to go gray at 48. And it was it was that it was right before Covid. And so Covid came at a good time because I was really wearing hats, because I had like a stripe. I had. Yeah. That's. Hard to grow it out, isn't it? Yeah, it's really hard. I mean, my biggest thing is I tell women this, like, don't diet in the first place. Like it. That would be such a graceful thing, you know what I mean? It would be so graceful just to go salt and pepper and just let it evolve. But not everybody has that gorgeous hair like yours. Like when I just have some grays and they're just like, throwing. They just like boink out. And it's a it's not beautiful like yours. You know, it's funny because you don't know what you have until you let it go. Because if you've been dyeing it for so long, you honestly people don't know what their hair color is anymore. And there's so many shades within your head. I mean, it was very interesting but very liberating and, you know, I always even when I was 30, I hated dyeing my hair and then I yeah, I was just I just always just was like, I felt like I was doing it for other people's approval and not my own approval. Like I wasn't doing it because it made me feel better or it made me like myself more. I was doing it because I was like, well, I, I should it would be alarming for people to see someone with gray hair. So yeah, God. Forbid. I know, but but yeah. Gosh. Yeah. Oh, but yeah, I come from a long line of like, really a lot of prematurely gray haired people, but people who rocked it like. Yeah. You know, they just owned their gray hair from, you know. From that. From. So yeah. I see I mean, you're like I said, your hair is stunning. I don't think my own be so good, but, well, tell me about, when you first got hooked on fitness or, like, what was the thing that grabbed you? Yeah. So fitness. I always liked moving. I remember being a little kid and running around and, like, getting exhilarated and kind of feeling that, like, high from that. But when I was a teenager, I was a tennis player. I was competing pretty high levels and at the same club that I had the indoor tennis courts, they had aerobics and aerobics was coming around and they took out tennis courts. They put in a robotic room, and I remember hearing them and being like, it's fun over there. People are having so much fun over there. I mean, it was a real thing. It was a real scene. And then I started taking classes and kind of sneaking in because I wasn't kind of I was really a tennis member and not a fitness member. And they were like two separate member memberships. And, and I was like, I just got so into it, I was like, this is great. In the middle of the winter, to be so warm and to be jumping up and down with all these people and clapping. And I loved it like I really did. You grow up. Way upstate New York in, outside of Syracuse. Very cold and everything's indoors for, you know, nine months out of the year. And, I just loved it so much. I just took to it. I was, ambitious about it. And it's like a weird thing because, you know, I remember one being like, you know, someone subbing for someone and be like, oh, wow, I wish I could sub. That's a great job. That's. I wish someone offered me that job like, I remember thinking that as a teenager. And then I went to we just. Spoke to you. It just spoke to me. You know what? I think I'm not that much of a sporty, competitive person, but I was put in that because I like to move, and I did have good coordination and I was like athletic, but I think I was a mover and I would be better. I would be better off as a dancer really, than a sport person. But I fell into the sport thing and it got it got really high level. And so I was a kinesthetic person, like I was moving, moving, moving. But I think non competitively is where I want to live. And fitness is noncompetitive you know. And it was just this camaraderie, this kumbaya. And Then I wouldn't give you like a sense of community is that isn't it the helping people or what. I've really analyze this because here I am all these years later, and I've taught my butt off. I've taught everywhere I lived on the West Coast. I lived in Manhattan. I now live in Connecticut. I did corporate stuff. I worked as a fitness instructor for Club Med in the Caribbean. Wow. I've done it in videos, I've done TV, I've done it all with like with workouts and, and I've done a lot of genres workouts and I've analyze analyzes so much and I really think there was a sense of empowerment back in the 80s, the late 80s. It wasn't. It was truly no judgment. It was truly about having fun. It was truly a celebration of your body. And it we didn't take it that seriously. There was clapping and and, you know, they would say for one, two, three, four, you'd say five, six, seven, eight. There was like this, this interaction that was just so, it was so joyful. And yeah, I. Remember I mean, I took aerobics classes as a teenager and, you know, in the, in my early 20s and, I mean, I did all those things, the step, the grapevine, all the things. Yes. Yeah, all the things. And I also loved getting together with people and doing something that was good for you. And I, you know, I think that like, I think, you know, at that time I remember being in my household and being everyone was kind of poker faced and no one smiled. And it was kind of like very plain and blah. And then in the aerobics room, people were wearing spandex and smiling, and there was like, beautiful people. And it was just this enthusiasm. Whereas like everywhere else in the world was just flat and there was no enthusiasm and I couldn't find it like it was. This was way before I remember going to the library. But I'm a knitter too. And I back then the knitting stores were all earth tones and like you know, some sort of like brown, some shade of brown. And, I remember just being like, God, like, where is where is the lifeforce? Where is the light? The color. Where is the color? Where is the inspired people? And I found them in that room for an hour, you know. In the band decks. In spandex. And just like people literally their whole day, they couldn't wait to get there at 530, you know, it was like a 9 a.m.. Yeah. It's a really interesting full. It's beautiful. I think a lot of people I think that's why I've had longevity too, because a lot of people that have been at it as long as I have, they've faded away. But they got into it because they didn't like themselves or they wanted to lose weight, or they they were kind of abusing themselves in a way, or it was a way for them. It was a means to another end. And so yeah. So I think it's really interesting. Like if I went to analysis, it would be really where I saw fun for the first time. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I sort of picked up on your vibe from that. And, I have a lot of people that approach me and want to come on the podcast to talk about fitness. And to be perfectly honest, I've turned them all down because I, sensed that little bit of no, I don't want to say self-hatred, but what you just said beating themselves up and coming from the wrong place. And I don't feel that from you. So, like, you never struggled with, like, an eating disorder or things like, did you know. Never had an eating disorder? I definitely over exercised at one point, but it was not because I was doing it to myself like it was because I was trying to earn money. And I was like, okay, I got to teach another class. But it wasn't because I was like, oh, I got a workout, you know? Right. Yeah, I totally you know what? It's funny. I think fitness can be such a boring snooze fest to talk about, and especially when you talk about it from someone who's like, there is a deprivation. I think of fitness as this asset, this thing you add to your life to add to your life. It's not this thing that you do because you have to do it like going to the dentist or, you know, and so it's a really different angle that I wish people, you know, entered into it with this mindset, because there's a lot of unlearning that has to be done for people to become fit for the longevity reason, you know? Yeah, we'll talk about that. Like what if somebody thinks they don't like working out? Is it because they just haven't found the thing they like or, you know, even if it's just going on a walk that counts, right? I mean, you talk about that. So like so funny because I think people have been psyched out. A lot of fitness has psyched people out. You know, it's like that extreme boot camp CrossFit and people think fitness is, I got to go join a gym. I got to get a treadmill. And really, activity is the key. And you have to think of it as activity and not like a workout. You know, I always think I, I really think a lot about our ancestors these days. And I it's funny because, I think you get to that like elder status and you're like, wow. And, you know, like couple generations back, like, I think our mothers and their mothers were there was a little bit more modern living. And but like a couple generations back, they were really active. They had to churn butter. They had to walk everywhere. They. And so and they didn't have any spandex. And I think the fitness industry was really born out of a lack of activity in everyone's daily life. I mean, if you really break it down, it's like, wow, people weren't moving enough. And so intrinsically we just like kind of created this kind of whole industry. But, so you have to think of it as activity and you have to find something you like, and it has to be something that feels good, this torturing thing. Again. Another thing is like people really think no pain, no gain. Still, to this day. And I every day people say, you know, I don't do yoga. Well, like I'll teach a class and they'll be like, they'll come in. They'll be like, I really suck at yoga. I'm like, well, that's good. You're here. Like, yeah, oh, you can't suck at yoga. That's the whole. Exactly the. Right you are where you are. Exactly what I love about yoga. Exactly. Yoga. And that's actually how fitness is, is totally. Because it's not a performance. It's not a sport. It's it's me. If self-care, it's meeting you where you're at, it's what you need now. And I really don't ever come across anyone that moves too much either. I rarely, I mean, even when you're on vacation, you are like, you know, we were in Italy last summer and my sister had her little Fitbit on, and my someone else had an aura ring on and they were saying, well, we've we've walked 15,000 steps. I'm like, okay, that's that's good. I mean, we're and we were kind of wiped out and we had been moving all day. And I'm like, that's adequate. Like but it's like, you know, it was a very peaceful day. We like loved it. But so it's like it's just that's the thing I think people aren't moving enough, but people are psyched out. They're psyched. Out. Yeah. You know, it's what you just said is, I had Dan Buettner Jr on from the Blue zones. Yeah. If you're familiar with that. That's right. Yeah. And they, they, Dan, Dan, Danny was talking about, that, you know, in the blue zones, they don't go to a gym. They're like walking up the hills and they're gardening and they're, you know, go walking to the market. Now, you know, it's tough for me because I live in Austin, Texas, and you only walk to your car, you know, like you have to take yourself out for a walk like a dog because you just don't get your steps in. Like we were just in New York. And I was like, you know what? I'm getting 15, 18,000 steps a day without even trying in here. If, like if I didn't try, I would probably get a couple hundred steps if I didn't actually do that. But yeah, you know, it's but you do have to build it into your day. And I do go out and I garden and I don't know, walk the dog and on top of things that, you know. So, if, if people think that they don't like working out, what are some things they could try? What do you suggest? I so like ground zero. First thing, get an exercise mat, lay it out on the ground and sit on it and notice what happens. And then give yourself set a timer. Give yourself 15 minutes and your body will start moving. You will start twisting. You will do downward dog. You will lean forward and stretch your hamstring. You will start to get embodied and you will get grounded and present in the moment too. And you will start stretching and opening up the body, and that will give you some energy. And then you'll be like, wait, maybe I maybe I want to go for a ten minute walk. Now or it will evolve. But I always say get a mat and just commit to be sitting on that mat for 15 minutes and notice what happens. Because there are so many options out there. I mean, I have an online program that I never really push that hard because I want people to kind of come to it on their own and realize like it's an option. But, you know, the great outdoors is amazing. I mean, even if it's winter or whatever, different climates, there's a time of day that might be best to go outside or, you know, there's there's a safe place to walk. Maybe, you know, when it's snowing. I live in rural Connecticut now, and when it's snowing, the trails get really icy and compacted down. And I'm on the hiking trails all the time, but there's like a month in February and March or whatever when everyone sees me with my dogs because I'm like, we're on the street again because it's safer here and it's plowed, and I'm not going to, you know, fall and slip and we're going to stay safe here. So and I it's funny because people see me and they see the car, they pull over their car and they chat with me like, I haven't seen you. And I'm like, I know because I'm in the woods, but right now I'm here. But, so I just think is get into your body and then the body will really dictate and lead the way. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be a lot. I mean, just that 15 minutes of sitting on your mat is game changing. People's energy is different. They hold themselves differently. They breathe differently. They have a little bit more, get up and go to get other things done, other tasks done. So I just say, get a mat, roll it out and sit on it. That's so good. I that is such beautiful advice. Okay. What about the women who are listening, who want to get, like a pretty good workout and are, you know, more used to working out and then. So, yeah, talk about that for a minute. Like what? What should they be doing? Because our bodies do change. And I don't want to go to the self-hatred place. But I do want to talk about like the reality. Because the truth is, I was out with some friends the other night. And speaking of downward dog, my friends, like, have you noticed what your arms are doing? And down dog because my arms are like, for all, like, the skin's falling off. I don't know what's happening all of a sudden. And I'm like, I know, I know, I know, and, it's hard. It's hard. But also, yeah, I mean, I don't want to beat myself up, but also, I mean, is, are there things that we could be doing for, like our, our, our knees falling down and our arms falling down like, yeah. So it's fine. It's I see that. I mean, I see that with myself too. Like your body really goes through a major change and, and it's not what you used to not have to work at. You suddenly have to, quote unquote, work at it. I really think, like, for 50 plus women, we need to move. We need to move a lot. I think that but what we also need to move strategically. It cannot be irritating. And I say this because there's so many movements that are too intense and it's depleting and dangerous and irritating, and we feel exhausted and it doesn't look good on us either, because we have lost that, like we're too depleted. So I think you can hurt yourself. You can hurt yourself, and the injuries really start piling. You don't want to do that. The end. Yeah I mean the injuries really start piling up with women, you know, in menopause and beyond because they're there's there's more there is more. Vulnerable energy going on. So I say nurture yourself but still move more often but move well so, you know, take the garbage out. You know, garden, you know, repot that plant, you know, do that and be physical with things like, you know, I have two very big dogs and giving them a bath is like ten bath towels. And an hour later and I'm like, yeah, breath. So it's like, take that job yourself. You know, don't go to the groomer. Take it yourself. Do it yourself. Like be active, get really physical and, you know, stay physical. And, but I think the workouts need to be more nurturing. And by nurturing, it doesn't mean easy. But, you know, there's I'm really the last. It's funny because I was doing vlogs every week and whatever, and I realized I had done so many blogs on the nervous system, and I would talk about how this irritated me. I was so stressed out or, or whatever. I was like, you know, my nervous system was up here. Women's nervous systems are up here. And especially in big cities like Austin. What? But you have to get your nervous system regulated because the nervous system up here is very aging. It's very aging. And it's it, it it really gets in the way of sleeping well. It gets in the way of weight, weight release and weight issues. It gets in the way. And so it also exhausts us. And we really just don't have the energy to keep going. So the nervous system has to be calmed down. It has to be regulated. And that's why yoga is such a good, great, great, great, great thing. And you can take it to a high level of yoga, but still keep that nervous system in check. And Pilates is great. Walking in nature is great. You know, I have a class on Let's Move that was sort of spawned by the nervous system regulation. It's called calm cardio. And so it's just cardio. We're not rushing and I'm not screaming. And we're staying with the move for a minute. And then we go into the next move after a minute. So we're not like trying to rush and trying to be hyper and trying to get things done. But we still get our heart rate in this beautiful zone. So things like that. Yeah. You have a million videos on there. I was looking through Let's Move and it's incredible. Thank you. And watching some of your videos. And you do have a very calming, positive energy. It's great I love it encouraging okay. But so let's let's talk about for the women who who already work out who want to you know, keep their fitness. And you know, they're like, okay, now my midsection is getting softer because I'm, you know, postmenopausal or going through menopause or whatever. Like what what should they be doing? Okay. So move off and move, you know, stay active through the day. Really think about posture and alignment that I you know, I say often that there's like this 50s front that happens where people kind of crumple. Yeah. You need to counteract that by thinking about this. And I, I say this every time in my classes, but think about your spine as an elevator going up. And then the heart is like a percolating fountain. Your heart center is this bubbly fountain. Right? So when all day long kind of think about that, make those two things your mantra because that a lot energy will you will actually have energy flow through your body when you're aligned. Misalignment is the beginning. It's the beginning of the downfall. So keep your heart lifted. Keep your shoulders back, keep your spine going up. And and really notice how your energy is affected by that, your energy, but your mental state, it actually makes you feel so much better about yourself. You feel more confident, more empowered when you have that alignment. So I think about those things when you're going for a walk down the street, when you're sitting in your car at your desk every once in a while, just be like, this spine is an elevator going up. And, and so starting with alignment, we got to really work out should promote the alignment you want in your life. They shouldn't be this position that you do for that workout. That's why I have an issue with with spinning because you're kind of crouched forward and you're kind of like tightening your front body the whole time and you're never, like, expend you're expansive through the front. And you it actually is a very, bad alignment. When you get off the bike, people still feel like and look like they're on the bike. Okay, I'm so glad you said that. And it's so funny. And I got a bike during, Covid, of course, you know, and I noticed that I was like, okay, now my shoulders hurt every time I get off this bike. And now. And I did notice my because I am big on posture. Like one reason I love doing the podcast is it gives me an hour to sit with excellent posture because I never sit back in my chair. I don't like that. I feel like I want to be forward, you know, talking to my guest with good energy. And so I'm always kind of on the edge of my chair. So it gives me a time to sit up straight. But I noticed that I was like, this is so bad and my shoulders hurt and everything. Okay, so this is what I use my bike for. Now you're going to crack up. I mean, if I sit on my bike when I want to watch TV and I put it on a low, you know, tension, it's not like a tight tension, but, it makes me breathe a little bit heavy, but not really. And I sit up straight, I never grab the handlebars. And I swear, one time my husband came in, I was eating a bowl of cereal on my bike, pedaling and watching TV. He goes, are you working out or are you having a snack? What's happening here? I was like, both. Looks so cute. I agree, I think that's great. I love a leisurely bike, I love bikes, I love, I love him for transportation. I love a leisurely bike ride somewhere. But it's true. It's like the cycling, the road racing and the cycling is really hunched forward. And this, you know, SoulCycle, they do all those classes, they try to counteract. They have stretches, they get them off the bike and they stretch, you know, at the end or whatever. So they try to counteract it. But I just think just be conscious of it, you know, and because it really will it really will. You'll still, you'll keep crunching forward, you know. Yeah. Gabriel Cousins is this guy that I've always studied, and he wrote a book called Spiritual Nutrition. And in the book he said, alignment is important because all your you get downloads when you're aligned, like, if you're. And I love that it hit me so hard, right? You get downloads when you're aligned. If you're misaligned, you're going to miss the download. It's going to get stuck. It's not going to get into your body. So like spiritual downloads come with you in your life. I know that's very woowoo, but I love that stuff that really resonated. I don't care, it resonates with me too. Yeah, because I always and I do that too. When I meditate, I always sit up straight and I kind of picture an antenna on my head and I'm like, let me meet the people I'm supposed to be and have the interactions I'm supposed to have. And it is. It's like you're saying like a download. Yes. Okay. And I important I also think, you know, we have this real heavy weights. Is this trend now heavy heavy weights. But a heavy weight for me is 5 pounds, a 5 pounds set of dumbbells is as heavy as I need to go. And my bones are great and I have muscle tone and I feel good. So what is heavy to you? I love to say that to people because women are getting we're getting such propaganda about these heavy weights and I'm like, heavy weights is what is heavy weight? What does that mean? Like a 20 pound dumbbell is ridiculous for 99% of these exercises that we're embarking on. Unless you're doing a chest press with it, with both hands in one, you know, so it's like, it's just we're really we're really, we're like, just sold these things that are just not true. And the protein thing is not true. We don't need that much protein, you know, because, like, excessive protein is like this thing. Heavy weights is this thing. Water is hydration is really important. And no one's talking about that. You know, hydrate yourself. Right. Exercise. But that's nothing. Break a sweat. And it's that moves your lymphatic. It kicks endorphins in. It circulates your blood. It's an instant facial. So I'm pro cardio. And of course I want people to sculpt and have muscle tone. But for women that are in their 50s and beyond, we were told just to sculpt from here on out and with heavy weights from here on out, and eat 8,000,000g of protein. And it's like, it's insane because all that stuff is extreme. And we also we need to feel good. This needs to be sustainable. Okay, you were reading my mind. I was just about to ask you about this whole, you know, lift heavy and eat protein. And I, I, you know, I've had enough people on here that have said who benefits from the message that I think about that all the time? Who's benefiting from telling me to lift heavy and to eat more protein? You know, I mean, people are probably trying to sell me some protein or, you know, some kind of sculpt workout, but we're, you know, but also, I mean, I, I do I like what you're saying because I do, you know, I have some weights at my house. I do have a I joined a gym that opened in my neighborhood. And I was like, I don't think I'm going to this gym anymore. I think I'm going to let this membership go. It's so broke in there and, I don't love it. It's not my place. And so I just, you know, continue to do my dumbbells at home. I do my cardio on my bike, or I go for like a fast walk or, and, you know, I might do like a sprint here and there during my workout, but I try to get my, my, you know, heart rate up. And I know all the thing, but it makes me feel good. What you're saying, because I was like, oh gosh, I hope Ellen's not going to come on and tell me to overhaul my entire life. And you're not. It's, you know, I mean, I could definitely pick up the pace, maybe put the cereal bowl down on the bike. But, you know. It's funny because I do think also variety is really important. Like variety really keeps it fresh and it keeps your body really balanced. So you know it's a great to have variety. So it's great to have options and variety. And they kind of go hand in hand. So like play tennis go play pickleball. Go. You know like I have a group of friends in New Haven, Connecticut, that cold plunge in the Long Island Sound right now. And they do that. And I'm not doing that because it's not my thing. But they are so exhilarated by it. And then while they're there, they do sprints on the beach and they're no one's there. And they and it's like this whole group of women that are like, loving that. So, that's great. You know, you have to do what floats your boat. You have to. But I think they do that one day a week, and then the rest of the week, they're on their own. They're doing their own things. And so like I do believe in like trying things and finding what works for you, but also mixing it up and always have options because you know, seasons change and you change and you don't want to get stuck in summer when it turn to winter, you don't want to get stuck, you know, and and so you have to keep evolving, kind of like, you know, your wardrobe has to always kind of evolve. Your workout has to evolve. So this is same thing. I love it. You you talked about, what kind of what kind of things do you eat? What do you what do you what's your philosophy on on healthy eating. Yeah. So I eat a lot of fruit and that's again people are like, what fruit. So I eat a lot of fruit I love bananas, I have like a banana in my bag and a banana or an apple is what I kind of really reach for. I make overnight oats. A lot. And I'll have them as like, lunch because I, you know, I just have them and I grab like to grab and go. I do a lot of, like, steamed vegetables, steamed cauliflower. I'm really plain. I eat a lot of plain, plain, plain stuff. I'll do I do a great, like, I'll do a little Indian, like, chickpea curry, like, I, I do things that are very, very light. And I find that I really want to eat lighter, cleaner, more water rich things. Now, I make my I have a 16 year old son, and he's a smoothie maniac. And so I have a lot. I always have stuff for smoothies and, and things like that. But I do try to eat really light. I, we, you know, we cook a lot of rice in this house, and, we just keep it kind of light. I'm not a huge salad person unless it's summertime, because I live in the northeast, and it just doesn't really agree with me. But one thing I do, I wake up and I have lemon water every morning. I just squeeze lemon in a big glass of water. And that's been. A really hydrating. It's hydrating. And, and I learned that from Anthony William. He's, you know, he believes it like flushes, gets the digestive flushed and stuff. So I love that. But yeah, I mean I really kind of eat I just try to eat light and I try not to get too hungry. So I kind of have like things to grab. You know, I definitely had had, I make like a energy bar my, that I make my own. But I have had like the energy bar problem back in the day. I would just eat too many of those like, kind bars and things like that because they were easy. But really, since I really, since I lived in the country, we cook more, we I have more foresight like I this is one thing about getting older, which is so good, is that you've maybe have become a real adult in the kitchen, and your food practice is strong, your food foraging is strong. Maybe you're we're able to grow herbs on your windowsill, like all this stuff is, is like, really come to me in the last ten years and I'm so grateful for it. And I'm like, God, how did I live without having, you know, fresh basil? Like, how did I do that? And I did that, and I ate like crap when I was living in the cities and getting take out all the time. And, so I do love that as you know, that I can just prepare things. You know, I love tea. I love like I have lemon balm, tea all the time and camomile tea all the time. I'm like a tea. I really think I'm like, I meant to have, like, ceremonies and be like this lady sitting by the fire with pipes of tea. Yeah. So yeah. I know I've started getting into tea, I like tea also. I like to have a warm drink and I can imagine if I lived in snowy Connecticut, I would have, ten tea cups, you know, attached to me just to stay warm. But, you know, I love to have something warm in my hands. It's it's so comforting. Sounds like you eat kind of, I you're vertically. It's. Yeah. Yeah, it's very plain. It doesn't. I mean, sometimes I do have some tumeric and some spice and. Yeah. And, like, I just made this, like, I make this really great caramelized onion pasta that I probably make, like, once a week, and, and we use just gluten free pasta and then, but it has paprika, and it is so flavorful and it's completely vegan and, and, yeah, I love it. It's warming and, but spicy, you know, a little spicy, but, but yeah, but the aromatics I've studied Theravada and I love it, and I definitely think there's a lot to it to keep your self in that calm state, to keep your digestion moving and keep everything peaceful. So yeah, I don't really drink alcohol at all. I always say I'm like a fake drinker at like New Year's Eve. I like hold it, but I won't really have much of it. Oh, man, I do enjoy a glass of red wine. I will not lie about that. You know, I just I mean, I just want to say that I'm just so kind of thrilled with where this conversation went. It just went, in a surprisingly different way. And I always like that because, you know, I don't want to have a preconceived notion and just think about where do I want this conversation to go? I want it to go where it wants to go. And so I'm sorry for all the people who tuned in who were like, okay, I'm going to get a good workout and I'm going to, you know, get all this advice to, you know, how to tone my arms and this and that. And so sorry for you. But also, I'm really I'm really glad for your message and I really appreciate that. But, but I want to ask you, you know, what? What do you love about being 54 and being this age? Well, I think that we don't value a lot of the stuff that's great right now. Like, I have a lot more. I'm connected to my intuition more. I feel a lot more self-aware, which is a beautiful it's beautiful. It actually translates as as like real beauty. I just know myself so much more. And I also think, like, there's a lot more. I feel like I have more compassion for myself. I'm like, wow, what a journey I've been on. Wow. And and I'm grateful for that for sure. So there's just so many little things. But I think that, I yeah, I've just come into myself more and you know, so those three archetypes, there's the maiden, there's the mother. And then there's the hag or the crone. Well, it's the crone. Crone or hag or the crone. Yeah, and love the hag and sound great. Anybody see how we've made that a bad word? I made it negative and we've made Crone negative, but, like, there's it's like we need we need really empowered crones. We need empowerment for women as they get older. And we've seen, you know, in the, you know, in the media, we see a lot of women. They're they're holding on to maiden. They're holding on. Yes. And and it's like I had that day in the sun. It was lovely. But I'm happy now. I'm psyched to be here now. And I think I think that's another thing that we need to, you know, we need to work out because we love ourselves and we want to embrace this stage we're in and be the best we can be, not because we're trying to be something else. I yes, I agree with you, and I agree that we have assigned meaning to Hag because it does it. That's not what it was originally meant to be. Right. That it. Yeah. That's such a good point, Ellen. And, what what do you think then? Your best piece of advice for aging? Well is. Well, I mean, and my brand is like, keep moving, you know, keep moving his, you know, you know, it's just it's it's about energy. You know, we we think moving depletes energy. Moving when you do it right actually gives you energy. So it's really becomes this like total asset total boon for you. So I would say keep moving. But also you know look at yourself with love. Like when you look in the mirror just be like wow, I'm sight. You did a good job. You made it here. Good work. I mean, what's the alternative, right? You know, you're either getting older or you're dead. So yeah. So it's like, it's just so bizarre. I mean, I really think moving to the country and being a little bit removed from a lot of like pop culture things like an every day is really been good for my self-esteem because because I just see, I, I just see, I see myself as just as much more a part of nature. And I'm much more cyclical, like nature is. And I embrace it. And I think that that's another thing is skin to nature. Yeah, that's so good. And it's so fun. Like, I was going to comment on this before when you called Austin a big city because I think it's a little city. It's so funny. But yeah, you're living in like a rural place. And so I think that's amazing. I love that's really good advice. Do you like what's your typical day? Like, do you get up and meditate or. Yeah. Tell me about your typical day. Okay. So I wake up really early.

And like what time like. 5: 40:30

00. What time do you go to bed? I try to go to bed around ten. I love to be in bed with a book at like nine, but, but that doesn't happen all the time, but I, I sleep really well because I move so much during the day. I think that has, you know, people. Another thing is women complain about insomnia, not sleeping well and I think too much caffeine and not enough movement, and too much media is actually really bad for sleep. So it has and people also they blame menopause for I'm not sleeping, it's menopause. You know, and it's like blaming that is actually incorrect in my opinion. Because I think it's lifestyle things. Yeah. And so yeah. So I wake up really early, I may, I have a 16 year old. So getting him off to school is my big priority. But I have two dogs that I always walk. I call it a sunrise dog walk. And I get out there with them and I go for this, like 20 minute loop, right when the sun's coming up now because it's really dark. And then I get home, I get back to the kitchen. I just like, get my kid off to school, get him fed, make juices. Just make breakfast, get everyone out the door. Or that's my then way. And then. So every day is different as a fit pro because I have classes here or not or I have classes in the afternoon. Sometimes I have classes at 9 a.m., so I do you have a. You have a studio at your house? I don't have a studio at my house anymore. I actually go places to teach. I teach at People's homes. I go to people's homes and teach, but I also teach at several places, around around the area. There's actually a lot of work around the area. There's a lot of there's, there's little hotels, there's, little clubs. There's, little like schools for kids that are like, there's a lot of work here. That's another thing. I, I was kind of shocked. I thought, oh, well, maybe I'll just go into New York one day a week to teach some classes. And I don't have to do that because there's so much up here. So every day is kind of different. And I have a home office that I love. I just love, like, I write my newsletters out of there, and I sit and I do office work every day. Every day, like 2 or 3 hours. I'm sitting in my office, but it's only 2 or 3 hours, and the rest of the time I'm kind of like all over the place. So. Yeah. And then I, you know, we try to have dinner early. Our son is, playing basketball, and he has practice and conditioning, and so he's a little thrown off. But I try to eat at five, five, between 5 and 6, the latest and then done. So yeah. So I do have a pretty moderate life. I don't stay out late, and I, Yeah. And I wake up early, but I naturally wake up early. I'm not setting alarm to do that. That's good. Sounds like a well-rounded day. Yeah, totally. And I think that anchor of my dogs really, are like my little wellness compadres, because they really make me get outside, and they, they also have built in exercise, but they have they are so routine. They are so routine that it helps you get on routine because they are anchoring you through the day. So yeah, so great that my son is driving now and he he has a really crazy schedule and he works at a pizza place and he's like, so he's you know, he's definitely not you know, you know living that routine anymore. But it's okay. To work at Mystic Pizza in Connecticut. It's something like that. It's like a local something like that. Yeah. It's like a local kind of place like that. Yeah. Okay. You guys, I don't know if you got that or not yet. Julia Roberts movie. You probably did. I probably did not need to explain that. Okay. So, Yeah, but it sounds like a good, grounded, you know, nice day. Do you get together with your friends or. I guess you get a lot of social interaction by teaching, though? I do see, I always say my my husband says, I know everything in town. Like, by the end of the day, because I've, like, come into everybody and had these chats and I'm like, oh, wow. So, so yeah, I do, I do, I feel like I it's my job is very social. It's very extroverted that I love to be with a book and be introverted. But I do have a click of girlfriends, and we're actually going to do a winter solstice gathering here that we just I've been texting with each other about. One thing is like, we're very spread out here because, I mean, we have, you know, a lot we don't see a neighbor. We have no neighbors anywhere around us. So everyone is spread out. So, it's, you know, we have to make a conscious effort to, you know, congregate. So we get to. Yeah, yeah. To get together. That's good. Okay. Sounds like you're covering all the bases. Yeah. Do you have, like, a favorite health or beauty product? Okay, I love so I love this company. This woman needing is she's in Canada, and her company is called Living Libations. Have you heard of her living libations? Yes. It's also it's all skincare stuff. But she does some dental care. She does some very clean makeup, but she has the best skin products, and I. I love her and I've been using her stuff for such a long time. It's just it feels so good. It really nourishes and hydrates and I love her stuff. So look that up. Living libations. Yeah. Nadine. What's her last name? Artemisia. RTD is lady and she has a zillion products now. But one of the product that I use is called The Best Skin Ever, and it's the sea buckthorn oil, and it's. Yeah, it's really you can wash your face with it, but you can also hydrate your face with it. So I just love it. And I love her. Her skin ever. That's so good. And you know, you have mentioned hydration a few times in hydration. Like how much water do you drink or. Do you so that's where the fruit comes in. I mean, I, I do drink a lot of water. It's like water is my preferred beverage. I like a room temperature. Water is like delicious for me. When I go to a restaurant, they have ice in it. I don't drink it. I just don't drink it. Yeah. But, so my my beauty tips really are room temperature, water hydrate and, you know, no diet soda. That's like the that is the that is like very toxic. So I, you know, but it's amazing how popular diet soda still is. I know amazing to me. I was just talking about that with my friend yesterday. I was like, I don't think I've had a soda or a diet soda in 30 years. Yeah. So I say diet soda is like, it's so dehydrating. But it also is really screwing up the body because it has a weird chemical in it that's quite bad. So I said, so hydration water is of course important, but fruit, you hydrate with fruit. I mean, the fruit really gets in your blood. That water plump that water and fruit plumps up your cells. So I love an apple banana. Like I said, you know, we do like, you know, we actually do juices here. We we juice celery juice. And we have a lot of frozen berries in there, you know, to put into smoothies and stuff. And, so I just love all that stuff. I mean, we'll have some avocado. We'll have, you know, a lot of, like, right now, like, I always get every time I go to Whole Foods, I get bags of lemon. We go through so much lemon in this house because they make salad dressings with it. And we eat it, we drink it, we garnish it, garnish with it. So I would say just I think fruit is a great way to get hydrated for sure. And then just try not to drink and eat those dehydrating things like diet soda, like caffeine beverages, like salty potato chips. They dehydrate you. And so, I love a potato chip, but I really restrain from that. Like, that is like, it's not working for me anymore. Yeah. Two dehydrating. Two salty to it. You know, it's too much. Yeah. That's. Do you do. So you had mentioned Anthony Williams. That's the medical medium. Yes. Yeah. Is that that's the so the salt you do a celery juice in the morning. Yes. I mean not every morning but whenever we can probably 3 or 4 days a week I'll juice celery. And you know, he recommends like 16oz, you know, 32oz. That's a lot and it's a lot. And so, you know, I just fill up a nice normal glass and I'll just like, yeah, this is good enough for me because I again, I'm just really I just can't, I can't, you know, I can't push it. But I mean, in the summertime if we have a lot of celery, I'll be like, oh, this is great. But I'm not like making it a goal to have, like, all that. Yeah, but I do love something like that in the morning. I think it just really hydrates you, wakes you up, energizes you. I love eating light in the morning for sure. Do you? Yeah. And I just want to say one thing. If people are going to juice celery or even eat celery, that's one of the most highly pesticide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Producing products out there. So be sure and get organic and use like a fruit and veggie wash on it. Yes. Organic all the way. I won't do it without organic for sure. And you know, it's funny because in Connecticut we the the the celery that grows in Connecticut is very rubbery and very like it's like dark green and it's like tough, it's tough to use. It doesn't go down as smoothly. So I'm like, I tried growing it. It's like so I you know. Yeah. Yeah. But it would be great if that's grow it yourself. Yeah I cannot grow. It's too hot here to grow celery. It's just, it just like wilts I know, but, Yeah, that's that's Did you do you do, did you ever do that book fit for life when you keep talking about fruit, did you do the fruit in the morning from like, that book? So that book I actually did a a companion workout to that book back in the day. Harvey and Marilyn Diamond, I still have the book and she looks sensational. So you did a workout for that? Yes, it was with Rodale. It was years ago. But yeah, I mean, I don't I'm, you know, I'm just don't I'm really drawing a blank on that book on, like, what it said about fruit. It. It was eat fruit until noon. Oh, right. The thing that was like the combining thing, like back in the day, you know, when I would still eat chicken, it'd be like, if you're going to have a protein, you only have, like, vegetables with it, but you know, or if you're going to have a carb like, brown rice and you only have vegetables like you wouldn't have brown rice and chicken, right? Obviously, I don't eat that. You know. I you know, it's funny that I that food combining thing, I never it just was too complicated for me. I'm a simple I need simple stuff. Yes, but like I do. One thing about Anthony William is he says, like, you know, having one food, like having just potatoes or like, you know, sometimes that is actually easier on your digestive system and like a mono cleanse or something. And, like every once in a while I'll do that. But it's not intentional. And, you know, the fruit until noon. Honestly, I might do that on unconsciously, you know. Right. But yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I try I mean, I think in my 30s and 40s, I made, I would do granola and I would do way more dense foods. And now I'm just eating much lighter foods, like, I hardly like I'll use like I'll put like pumpkin seeds on a salad and that's like a lot, you know. So I like I think that's kind of interesting and like, even like you know, I have the, you know, have you heard of this thing? It's called the, almond cow weight. Yeah. And it's you can make your own nut milks. I think it's cool. Yeah, yeah. That's too much work. For me. You know what? I have it, and I make the same thing over and over again. And I tried making oat milk with. It didn't work, but I make a cashew coconut milk that's really delicious and very simple. And, and that worked in there. So I'll, you know, I'll make that and that's, that's really for smoothies or for the overnight oats or, you know, maybe to put in tea if I'm having like a black tea or something. But, but yeah, I like that almond cow is, was good. But honestly, it didn't work for oat milk. It didn't work for a lot of milks. You had to. That one thing is the only thing I can make out of it. Sounds good. Yeah. It's good. Let it's good. Lastly, what's your favorite concert you've ever been to? Oh my God, great question. So the very first concert I ever went to is Pat Benatar, which was. Pretty good one. I know, and she was great. And it was a small venue, and I remember being very impressionable, like she was owning it and she was wearing like this sort of cat suit and whatever. But, you know, we saw Tom petty, my husband and I went and saw Tom petty not that long before he passed away. And every song we knew, every word and we didn't know, we knew every word. We were like, wow. We knew every word. And that was a really lovely concert because his songs are just so singable and we just had a great time. So I would say, Tom petty. That's so good that you saw Tom petty before he died. I hadn't seen him in a while. But, you know, probably not. I don't even know the last time I saw him, maybe ten, 15 years ago. Well, he's already been gone a while. Yeah, maybe it was 15 years ago. I hadn't seen it, but yes, you're right. That's such a fun thing. When you know all the songs and. And Pat Benatar is a good one, too. Yeah. Because, you know, she had the legwarmers and the headband, so that's perfect. Like, I was probably in, like, eighth grade, ninth grade and sitting there and it was a small venue and we were up close. And she had she, it was she did have a headband. She had a black tight fitted like cat suit on with a low opened up low here. And she was just and it was rock like. It was like she was rocking, you know. And I remember being like, wow. Like, this woman is like owning it. Like, yeah, yeah. Because everyone else I know. Everyone else in her band was a guy. And, yeah. So yeah, that was really interesting. I went with my friend Gretchen Klotz and we sat, we sat up, we. Shout out to Gretchen. Out to Gretchen. But yeah, I mean, you know, we've seen a lot of concerts over the years. We saw, you know, U2. My husband actually just saw the Eagles at this year in Vegas, and he said it was amazing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He said it was great. So, is it Glenn Frye's son? You took his place? Yes. Yeah. And, and he said it was just amazing. And they. Yeah. I haven't been to the sphere yet. That's on my list. Yeah. He said it was totally worth it. He's like, oh, I bet. Yeah. He went with a bunch of guys down there and he saw that up there. And but yeah, we've you know, it's funny because in Newport, Rhode Island, there is a folk festival every year. Yeah. And, the stage is like, it's like boats are sailing behind and it's like beautiful. And the festival is like, everyone's on. Yeah. It's just a it's actually very I you never hear about it like in a big scale, like people hear about like Coachella and whatever. But the Newport Folk Festival is so good and. Oh yeah. And you could see like we saw like first aid kit there and they're like this great duo band with like two female vocalists and it was just such a good venue in the summertime. It's like in July and it's just perfect. It's beautiful. It's like New England, perfect. New England boating. And they have great acts like Sheryl Crow. They've had great people there. I mean, Willie Nelson, I feel like goes all the time. I didn't see him there, but they have really big acts and it's not a humongous, but it's very intimate venue and I. Need to go there. Yeah, that sounds right up my alley, honestly. Yeah. Rent. Cute like house that weekend and then just go to that festival. I mean, I'm definitely going to at some point. Yeah. Yes, I need to do that. That sounds so good for you. I do get to see Willie all the time. He's here in Austin. Oh, I see him, yeah. Oh. Are you. Are you a music fanatic? Yes, that's why I asked that question. Because I like to hear everybody's favorite bands that they've seen. But yes, I see Willie all the time now. He sits down on his stool and his son Lucas plays, you know, a lot of the thing with him. And. But I meanI so he's like at least 90 years old, so well deserved to sit down. All the acts go to Austin. You don't have to work very hard to get to those shows. I mean, it's funny because like, we can go to New York and Madison Square Garden and things like that, and so we're not working that hard to get to some shows. But we do have to work pretty hard because we're not they're not like in our town at all. But but yeah, we have to. That sounds so I mean, I really do. I want to go to that Newport Folk Festival. Yeah, it sounds delightful. It's still like it's been going on for a long time, but it's actually, I think about, like, I'm not a boater, but I'm like, what if you were in a boat and you just sailed by here right now? Like, how cool is that? How cool would that be? Yes. I know it's so cool. Peace. Amazing. Sounds good. All right. You rent, the boat will come. Yeah, yeah. Well thank you, Ellen, you are delightful. I loved this conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Lauren. It was so fun. I loved it too. Take care you to go. Bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well until we meet again.