Dr. Ruby Lathon Reversed Thyroid Cancer Naturally with Plants and Lifestyle

Ever wonder what it really takes to heal, not just your body, but your whole life? Dr. Ruby Lathon did it. After being diagnosed with thyroid cancer, she walked away from a high-powered engineering career and rebuilt her life from the inside out.

Dr. Ruby Lathon's doctor was adamant that she have her thyroid removed and commit to a lifetime of medication. She said, "No thank you."

She talks about the emotional and physical shifts that led her to healing, how she let go of stress, stopped saying yes to things she didn't want to do, learned to trust her body, and used visualization, self-compassion, and a plant-based diet to recover naturally.

Now a holistic nutritionist and wellness advocate, Dr. Lathon helps others do the same. She shares her new cookbook, Stop Playing, Go Vegan, packed with delicious, healing recipes that make healthy living simple and delicious.

https://www.rubylathon.com

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https://wellelephant.com/ecookbook/

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Transcript

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When today's guest, doctor Ruby Lathan, was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, her doctor insisted she have her thyroid removed and take medication for the rest of her life. She refused, and instead she kept her thyroid and cured her cancer with a whole food plant based diet and a major lifestyle overhaul. Find out exactly what she did in this remarkable story and check out her new cookbook, Stop Plan. Go Vegan. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe there as well. Thank you. Thank you for listening and for sharing this podcast with your friends. We are continuing to grow and it's thanks to you. Please reach out to me on social media. I promise I'll answer you back. I just love hearing from you. And now our guest, doctor Ruby Latham. Hi friend, are you looking to age healthfully, confidently and vibrantly? Then this podcast is for you. Smart, slightly salty, irreverent, and thought provoking. I'm Lauren Bernick and this is age. Like a badass mother. Hi friend. This is the next installment of your little bite sized piece of learning how to eat a whole food, plant based diet without oil. In order to reverse disease and to lose weight. So, you know, let's be clear. If you're just trying to get a little healthier and, you know, maybe lose a couple pounds, okay, just eating your legumes, your whole grains, your green leafy vegetables, you know, fruits and so forth, you're going to do a lot better than whatever's going on right now if you're eating the standard American diet. But if you're really trying to reverse disease like I did, I reversed my heart disease by following a Whole Foods plant based diet without oil. You have to do it all the time. So I travel quite a bit, and that's one reason I keep it really tight. When I'm at home. I do not stray when I travel. There are times when I have to have some oil. I still have a vegan meal. I don't stray from that. I don't want to. I never want to eat another animal again as long as I live. I don't want to eat anything that comes from an animal, but once in a while I'll concede I have to eat some oil. Okay? But when I travel on a plane, I take my food with me because I never know. You know, you could get stranded. You just. You don't know what the day's going to bring. And like they say, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And so I set myself up for success. When I'm traveling on a plane. And, you know, I need a meal on the plane, don't forget, you just can't bring, like, a salad dressing in a container or even hummus. I've gotten confiscated. They taken my hummus away at the airport. So if I'm going to make, like, a salad, which I generally don't. But if you do mix your salad dressing into the salad and put it in a container and you can bring that on, put your hummus in a sandwich. If it's already like in something, then they don't take it away. But my go to travel meal for the plane is I make some lentils and quinoa that travels better than beans and rice. Trust me, I've done this a lot now, so I make some lentils and quinoa. I make a bunch of green leafy vegetables. I put like a pumpkin seed, cilantro sauce onto the green leafy vegetables. Mix it in. I usually have some bite-sized tofu cubes. You can go to my YouTube channel, age Like a Badass Mother on YouTube and I show you how to make tofu cubes. I show you how to sauté without oil. I think I even have some travel videos on there, I'm not sure. But anyway, just be prepared. Have some food. You can bring a veggie burger, you know, make a homemade veggie burger or, I think there's a new one I've talked about on my YouTube channel, I can't remember. It's I think it's called actual Veggies. And so they have some ready made veggie burgers. You could just put it in between two slices of Ezekiel bread with some lettuce and tomato and pickles and onion. I probably wouldn't put onion for the plane. You know, things get stinky in a tight squeeze. So, I don't bring macaroni and cheese and broccoli on a plane that's stinky. Just try to avoid stinky foods. So. But have something. I usually have 2 to 3 meals packed just depending on what's going to happen. Usually a sandwich. Like I said, a veggie burger. I have the lentils and quinoa and vegetables and all that. The tofu I have fruit. I bring some like sugar, snap peas, just, you know, anything that I can munch on, you just don't know where the day is going to take you. So be prepared. When I get to my destination. I love Marriott hotels because they always have, refrigerators in the room. And, you know, if I'm checking a bag, I can have my plant milk in my bag and my cereal and all that kind of stuff. But honestly, most times, unless I'm going to be somewhere remote, I just wait till I get there and go to a store and get some plant milk and things like that. Okay, let me know if you have any questions. You can email me at. Lauren at age like a badass mother.com, you can go to my website. Well, elephant.com. You can get my free cookbook and also find out information about my class is plant based eating. If you're really ready to reverse disease like I did. Okay, now let's get going with our guest today. Oh! Doctor Ruby Lathan is an engineer turned holistic nutritionist who dissolved her thyroid cancer tumor. Naturally, in 14 months without surgery. Her story and work have been featured in the documentaries What the Health and They're Trying to Kill Us. Please welcome doctor Ruby Lathan. Hello. Hi. Thank you for having me. Yes. Of course. You are so stunning. And I just asked you before we started, and then I said, stop. Don't just save it for the podcast. Do you always wear red? Because Ruby. And it's just your color. I you it. It is my color. I discovered it was my color because every time I wear it, I get compliments, like every time. And I was like, I think I should just always wear red. Then I think as it stands out, I get with orange too. But red is definitely my color. And I was like, well, my name is Ruby. Let's, let's go with it. And it's, let's do it. Memorable. Someone saw me across the room and they were like I had on Red. And they were like, oh, I remember you, Ruby, you're red. And they were like, I got it. I was like, well, this works this. For you know what it really does? It's your signature color. I have red and orange are also my colors, which is kind of odd. Like doesn't seem like we'd have the same colors that we look good in, but for sure, like, I love those two colors and they do stand out. And then they also make you happy. Right? They do. And you know, there's a there's a secondary reason as well. And we'll get into it. But it really kind of represents my transformation after healing from cancer because I didn't wear a lot of red before I was, I had a lot of more grays and blacks and browns and white, but it was more muted tones. I had some color, but it was not intentional. When I looked at my closet, I was like, there's a lot of gray, black, brown colors in here. And I need to live more out loud. So I'm like, oh, so. That's really happy with. This shift. Yeah. So it was like a, a conscientious shift. Then you were like, I'm just going to. Yeah, right. I just noticed there's there's a lot of facets to the healing journey. And the last piece was the emotional piece of healing. And for me that represented speaking out, speaking up, standing out and not being muted and hidden. So it, you know, the colors came along with that. Well, I definitely want to kind of just pop into it because, you know, I know you have a PhD in engineering. And then what what was the catalyst that brought you to being a holistic nutritionist? Was it your cancer diagnosis or. Was it was. No, that was that was it. And it wasn't really planned. It all happened organically after, you know, I when I was diagnosed, that was back in 2007. And so I was figuring out how to, you know, do things naturally. And I shared with my network, you know, I'm looking for a natural method. So everyone knew, and so when it was done, you know, people wanted to know how. And so then I started teaching and talking and got a certification. And so that was, that was the pivot. It was after, because I was working in defense and, you know, working for a great national laboratory. But I wasn't happy, you know, I wasn't excited about the work. I was like the best part of the work for me was being able to present the solution to the client and see that they're happy about it, but it wasn't the actual work, it was that I was helping them do their job made me feel good, but actually doing the work wasn't exciting to me, so I was wanting to do, you know, something else, you know. And this why did you get into engineering then? What was that like? Pressure from your. Parents. So you know what? I got first into computer science because I was interested in like, how does this work? How computers work. I really wanted to know. And then I did some internships in programing, and I was like, I don't want to be in a basement coding and that kind of thing. So engineering, I kind of shifted from computer science to like industrial systems engineering. And I really did like that work. I have like, a minor in artificial intelligence and statistics and all that. So that kind of work was interesting to me. I really like learning, so I think I could have stayed in school forever. But, you know, at some point it comes to an end. And while I was really grateful for the work, I don't know that it was just, once I started, I was like, I don't want to do 9 to 5. How are people doing this forever? I can't do it. I feel like a caged bird. I really did, and I felt bad that I wasn't grateful, as grateful as I was grateful, but I was like, I should be really grateful. I'm making a six figure job in this great, you know, prestigious laboratory around really brilliant people. But I am not personally happy about doing this coding and simulation and reliability analysis and all. This is not my calling, you know, and I didn't realize it until I was in the job. So but because I, I enjoyed every step of the way, And it was just the job. Yeah. It's a. Problematic. Well. I think a lot of people find themselves in that situation, which is, you know, another part of like aging well, but, you know, it always comes back to that. Like if you're in something that it's okay to pivot and it's okay to, you know, make that change. Even if you've invested in this, you know, your education and spent years in it. But okay. Well, okay. Take me back to your diagnosis. Were you having, like, symptoms or how did you come to find out you had thyroid cancer and how old were you at the time? So I was 35 and I didn't have any symptoms other than that. My doctor just doing my routine annual checkup felt like my thyroid was enlarged and that it was bumpier than before we had done a few years before. Ultrasound because it felt a little bumpy, but there was nothing suspicious on it. So she was like, let's I think we should do another one because it feels bumpier. And that was that's how we found it. So I did the biopsy. Then there were some suspicious nodules. And, I mean, I did the ultrasound first that showed some new nodules that weren't in the previous scan. And it looked a little suspicious. So then that's what led to the biopsy and that's how we found it. Okay. Wait. So is there like a self like a breast exam? Is there like a self thyroid thing where you could feel if it's bumpy? I'm suppose you know, you could, but I feel like I think it's someone who's done it so many times they know it. It's supposed to feel like, yeah. So you just wait for the doctor. To, I would say, because you don't want to scare yourself. And, and generally nodules can be on your thyroid that are nothing. So that's why when they were there initially, it wasn't anything to be alarmed about because sometimes you just have a, you know, a little lump of your thyroid. So, but it was looking at more activity and blood flow then that raises the flag that something is happening. And it doesn't have anything to do with like the numbers, like when you get your thyroid tested and they give, you. Know. Yeah. It doesn't there's nothing left here. Yeah. Because I had totally normal numbers the whole time. Okay. And so what, you know, what was what did your doctor say. What what did you what was your reaction. What did you do right. So at this point I was working with the endocrinologist and he said, you know, I just called me that after they got the results and said, you know, here are the results. I was like, obviously very stunned that I was not expecting it. I was I had dismissed the idea altogether. And so then I of course, the next question was what was the, you know, procedure? What happens? What do we do? And then he said, it's surgery, you know, and then you go on medication and then, you know, we come in adjusted and blah, blah, blah. So I was like, so is that the only option and do I have to be on a medication? Yes. Because if you take out the thyroid you have to replace thyroid hormone. There's no there's no ifs and buts about it. You have to take, you know, a thyroid hormone after that. And I was like, that's when I was like, I need to think about this. And, and then I said, well, what about alternative treatments? Natural treatments? And I was like, there, I've never seen that work or happen for anyone. So I was like, and actually, when he said that, I was like, well, I might be the first. I said that in my mind. And it said out loud, but that's how automatic the thought process was about not doing the traditional route. Yeah. I don't know if you know anything about me, but that was actually my story too, with, but with heart disease. And you know the doctor was like well you just have to be on a stand for the rest of your life and you have to, you know, eat healthy and fish and blah. Blah, right. Like, I was like, you know, what the, the things he listed off that I should eat was what I was eating. I was like, so that can't be right, because otherwise I wouldn't have heart disease. Right? Disease. And he's like, what are you talking about? And so it's funny that we both kind of had that same impulse. Not me. Exact, but. Having to find a way. And so then what? So so you said you kind of took it to your point. Yeah. So I just started researching like on the web, like what probably caused and how to heal it. And what causes that to, you know. So it's, it's nonspecific, but it can be one of them is excessive X-rays, like excessive dental or head and neck X-rays can be one of the causes of that. Yeah. Have that. I had, I think a few more dental X-rays that I need that I needed to have, and, and, and in the more recent like years, leading up to it, like within the last like four years before 4 to 5 years before I was diagnosed because I had an overzealous dentist and I had great insurance. I was like, oh, let's check this and do that, you know? And so I felt like I didn't realize the danger, you know, because you're wearing the collar or the thing you're thinking. Everything's protected. But I feel like I had more than I needed to have. Then others can just be radiation exposure. Yeah. But with back to the X-rays like. So where do you land on that now with dental I really. Don't do them. I do like I might do one every five six years. I just have really good oral health habits because I'm avoiding X-rays. So every and then I dentists attest to that. It's like these are the cleanest teeth I've seen and, you know, plaque free. You know, because I use the water, pick an electric toothbrush and, you know, all of the things and flossing. And so, you know, and I do, you know, mouth rinsing, oil pulling occasionally. So I just take extra care because I'm just not going to be checking every year for for that. Okay. That's good advice okay. So you looked into it and now what. Now what did you decide. Yeah. So I decided to you know, switch to a plant based diet. So I went to this like lifestyle treatment facility in Alabama where they kind of teach you how to use food as medicine. Kind of similar to a. But this place was like UC Pines. But how did you find out about that? Did through. But some members of my church had gone there before, so I knew about it. I had never really looked into it, but I just knew there was a facility where people sometimes go for those kind of things. So. So I looked it up and they had an opening in like three weeks. And so I went there. That was like three weeks after the diagnosis. So it was really a great like first, you know, rush of information on how to really use food as medicine. And so that was really, you know, my first intro into that, and it was a good introduction. So it was like, you know, you know, three weeks there was just like a download of information and holistic remedies. And so I just kind of soaked all that in and came back and just implemented, you know, what I learned. So you stayed there for three weeks. So yeah. Can you, can you share the name of the place is it's. No, it's it is U-T Pines, Oh, good. And so you were able to come back and just implement everything. And did you feel better, like what changes started happening? You know, I did feel better. I had lots of energy. I was just but I wasn't I wasn't sure I was doing everything that was like, this is the start, you know? But I did start with there implementing everything. And I was like, you know, I was seeing people in that three weeks having good results in a short amount of time, like with with mouth sores and things shrinking while I was there. So I was like, okay, so mine is tiny, so it should be gone in three months. So I'm going to go back in three months to the doctor, have the ultrasound, and it should be gone. That was that was the plan. But it wasn't gone in that three months. So I was a bit discouraged. And then the doctor, the endocrinologist took the opportunity to discourage me because I still didn't do the surgery because his thought was, yeah, go do your thing, come back in three months on schedule. And then I still didn't schedule. And he was like being irresponsible and blah, blah, blah, and just took a really long time to discourage me about what I was doing. So I felt bad. It's like, I think there's more to do and I'm going to stick with it a little longer because I didn't feel like I had exhausted, you know, everything. Yeah. But before that, what was your diet like? Were you eating a lot of meat or was it really hard for you to change? I was not eating much meat. I was primarily vegetarian, but high dairy, vegetarian. A lot of processed food as well. So, you know, cheese was the, you know, I replacement. So whenever I'm going out to eat, I'm having the cheese ravioli instead of like, beef ravioli or, you know, so there's a lot of dairy, in the diet, a lot of eggs, dairy and processed, like packaged food. Yeah. So that was. And you know, I, I wasn't like a sugar holic or anything, but I, you know, whenever, you know, sweets however I liked as well. So. Yeah. Yeah. And so, then what, how long did it take till you found out you reversed it. Was it 14 months? Is that what. You said it was? So I took that, you know, another, you know, a couple of months. And I was like, there's probably more need to do. I started working with my friend who was becoming a natural Catholic doctor at the time. And then she started really talking about the emotional component of, of healing and that, yes, I was doing all the right things with the food and even exercise and, you know, rest. But what does the illness represent? And when you look in, like, are you Vedic medicine where you get sick as an indicator of what you might need to investigate to change and what it represents. And given that my thyroid is enlarged and wrapping around our, you know, wraps around the vocal cord for everyone, but if it continues to get enlarged, it can it can diminish your your vocal cord where you're speaking very hoarsely or not at all if it's not addressed. And I was like, so she was saying, what do you think that represents for you? And I was like, I know exactly what that means. Every time I speak up, it was just like, okay, I got it. This is where I need to focus. I need to focus on not doing things I don't want to do. And I was the the consummate yes person. You know, didn't want to make any waves or make anybody upset. I was the peacemaker at my own expense. So as long as everybody else was happy, then I was okay with it, even though maybe the solution wasn't working for me. So I wasn't living my life on my terms. I was living it based on what I thought I should be doing. You know, it's like, okay. And I was actually kind of fearful about the next step because it was like, you know, now that I got the degree, I was supposed to get married and have kids and do this. And I was like, I don't even know if I want any or all of that, but I feel like that's what I'm supposed to do. So it's like, you know, you go to church, you find your husband and you do. And I was like, I, I'm not sure that's for me, but I was planning to do that because that's what I thought I was should be doing. So yeah, I was like, okay, I know God's going to send me the right one. And you know, my life was centered about that. Right? And so it wasn't really what I wanted to do. And I was like, you know what? I'm not going to just do what I think I'm supposed to do. I'm actually going to think about what I want to do and do that. And so that meant, you know, speaking up like I was in I had left the labs and was working in a some colleagues from college. We had started an engineering firm together, but it was not equitable work, and I wasn't speaking up enough about it. I'm doing more of the work, the really the hard pieces of it and not getting the more most of the money. So I'm like that. That's not good. So I quit. I was like, I quit, you know? That was something I would not have done without that. And then I just said, you know, I'm I'm dropping all of the organizations that I'm in that I just said yes to because I didn't know how to say no. Because I'm a people pleaser. So even though they're for good causes, you need to follow your heart. Right? So I was like, I'm dropping everything and everything is no. So it was like I was like a two year old that just learned how to say, no, no, don't ask me anything. The answer is no. You know. That's so good. And, you know, the thing is that you learn that at 35 or 36 instead of like 55 or 56, because usually, you know, it takes longer to learn. Eventually we get there. But you, you had like a nice little jump start on it. Right? Right. Yeah. So I just started speaking out. I was like, that's what I'm supposed to do. And then I chose some volunteer things that I really liked to do, you know, since I had time, since I quit. And, What did you choose? So I chose this, it was a center for people recovering from drugs and alcohol, and it the concept was it was a place called Endorphin Power Company, started by a physician. And the idea was to use exercise to replace the endorphins, things that you get from drugs and alcohol to really hone in on that. So there was a gym there and things like that, and they needed to renovate the place. So we we had this contest where everyone would take a room and have a team and renovate, like from scratch. And so that's what I did. And that was really fulfilling for me. And just seeing people helped in a more authentic way, and not just a patch of a fix to a problem, but a real, lasting, like innovative solution. And so that's where I spent my time and just, you know, had, you know, just trying things I wouldn't have normally done, you know, rock climbing and things that I would not have just done before. But I started saying yes to what I wanted to do and what make me seemed fearful. I'm saying yes to that and no to, you know, responsibilities that I feel like I should just follow. Oh, that's so smart. What? And I guess so you had left your job. And what were you doing at this point for? Yeah. So because then they, you know, saw my value. I was like, well, don't quit. Just take a leave of absence and we'll just pay you while you're gone and then come back when you're, you know, have dealt with this issue. And I was like, great. You know, I, I wasn't even I ain't even thought of that option. I just knew I was going to quit and I was like, the chips fall where they may. I'm going to figure it out. So during, you know, the recovery, I was thinking about, do I want to go back? I, I don't think I want to go back. I don't want to do that. I'm just going to have to figure out, you know, what my next, step is. So that's why I was, you know, doing that. I was just, you know, studying and focusing on healing. And I would say about halfway into it, the six month mark was kind of the pivotal change when I stopped focusing on, well, how did I get it? And, and started focusing more on just allowing the plan to happen. And then I got a new doctor who wasn't critical of what I was doing, but just agreed to monitor and not give this, you know, negativity that was like almost bringing me to tears because it's like, you know, it's they hold a lot of influence for someone like that. Really. Being negative was like, not what I needed to hear because I'm like, look, I want to live more than you want me to live. So I am not in any way being irresponsible, you know? Exactly. That's a really good point. Yeah. Right. Okay. That was your doctor. Plant based doctor. Just a supportive. Just supportive. Is the initial endocrinologist, like, wrote letters to my, primary care saying she's not following the protocol. You need to talk to her and let's. I know, I thought that was so funny. I was like, what is she, my mother? I'm not going to just do it because. So that was the kind of pressure and I felt that was odd. But that's why I just got a new endocrinologist and was like, here's what I'm doing. Can you just monitor? And he agreed. And that's that's how he went with that. And then I said, you know what? I'm going to go back on my schedule when I feel healed and not when I they're saying to come back, you know, and that way it took the pressure down. And then, you know, I started meditating and visualizing my healing. And I took a, you know, after six months, I took a break to Mexico. A friend had a condo there. And I stayed there for like three weeks. And the third week I was by myself and I was on the beach. I learned how to drive a stick shift. And two, that was fun. So because that's how they rented their swings. So it's like my sister was there the week before. She's like teaching me how to drive. And I was like, I think I got it, you know? Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember driving a stick shift when I was younger. They don't I don't even ever see those anymore. Right. It's great. So I was sitting there in my bliss because I'm on the beach by myself. It's the most beautiful white sandy beach. Nobody else is there because it's off season for that town. There's one butler guy who's bringing me whatever I want, fully waiting on me because there's no one else there, and I'm having guacamole and and looking at the beach. And then I got this download of, like, information about how I should revise my nutrition plan, that I was doing too much. I was stressing myself out because I was stressed, and how I needed to look at the healing that I didn't need to take, you know, 20 supplements. I needed to look at it as a system. As we're fighting cancer with some things or reducing inflammation with some things, and we're supporting the immune system and some of those things overlap. So you don't have to take every single thing. And so when I broke it down into that systems approach, that made sense to me as an engineer. And I was like, okay, so we're going to just take a few things in each of the most powerful in each of these categories and let the rest go. And then I'm like, and now I feel like I have a real plan. I've been studying this for six months. I need to trust my knowledge at this point. I've I've talked to like at least almost, you know, probably more than half a dozen doctors and chiropractors and natural paths, everything. I've gotten all the information. So trust yourself enough to now follow through. And that was the shift. And that's when I started reading some other books, like Love Medicine and Miracles by Bernie Siegel and, Spontaneous Healing by a doctor, while Andrew while. And that's what I really honed in on that emotional piece and learning to visualize my healing. And that's when I was like, okay, this is I really do trust the process now, because a lot of times you say, you know, if you have faith. I was like, you can. If you have faith, you're not living in fear. And I was living in fear that first six months of I hope it works. Yeah, well. Doctor was scaring you. Yes, very much so. So I was like, I am literally going to trust the process because you said you are. But if you're trusting it, then you're not being fearful about it. You're just doing it and let it happen. And so that was the big shift for me. There was like, I when I started seeing myself healed in my mind, I was like, then I am healed. And I'm no longer claiming I have cancer. I'm not even going to say that anymore. And now. You know, that's a good story. Yeah, yeah, it reminds me a lot about, you know, manifesting like people are always like really manifesting a man. But when you're manifesting, you know, I've been reading about it and so forth. And but when you're always manifesting, you're always asking, and then you're not really ready to receive. You're not in like, receiving mode. It feels like you flip your switch and got into receiving mode of healing. You know, it's the same, exact same kind of thing. You kind of just, yeah, just trusted the process and finally let go and and really believed it. Like, I think for a while when you start something like that, you have to talk yourself into it and you know, your mind is spinning and you are scared and you're trying to save your life and you're like, am I doing the wrong thing? Am I crazy? I'm just telling the doctor, I'm going to do this on my own. And at some point you I guess on that trip, you know, really did shift and begin to trust yourself. And I guess that's just how you do things, isn't it? I mean, I guess you kind of just have to start and and even just fake believe it. Like they. Fake until you mention. Or. Right. Is that right? Some of that is true, you know, and it's like, you know, I just was thinking about it what really faith is. Right. And it's it's believing without the evidence. And and that's what manifesting is, you know, but it's also getting it's the same thing, but it's, it's getting on the other side of it. And that's why I said when I stop looking at the flaws and felt that probably have covered those bases. And I did radiation detox protocols like, like bentonite clay baths and things like that, I felt like we've handled it. You can let that go. Now we're moving to solutions only and no blame or, you know, worry about getting it again. And we're just moving into healing. And so I just kind of embody that I'm healed. So that's why even saying it wasn't like I didn't have this immediate revelation, I'm going to stop saying it. It's like when I heard myself say it, it felt wrong because I healed myself in my mind. I was like, oh, I don't have that. So I'm not going to say it. I just healed myself and I've been doing it every day for 20 minutes meditating and then, you know, visualizing. So it just felt it felt wrong. So I was like, okay, you know, so a lot of that just came about, you know, through the process. can I ask you, like what you were eating on this journey? Like, what was your plant based diet like? So my day has started with, supplements that needs to be taken on an empty stomach, like vitals. I'm with one of those to help reduce inflammation. Like, that was like a proteolytic or systemic enzyme. And then I would start with wheatgrass and ginger and a little carrot juice to chase the wheatgrass. And then I think I started with some teas. So it was probably like late morning for actually eating anything. And that was I would start with garlic. So part of the my protocol was eat like eight cloves of garlic a day. And then I would steam some of it and like half and half. So I would mix it with some like flaxseed oil and have it on like Ezekiel bread. So it didn't actually taste that bad. And I just got used to garlic. Okay. That sounds so good. Yeah. Yeah a little too for like, toast. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. And then from there it was like a, it's like a big salad with beans and, you know, veggies and that kind of thing in there. And for a while I wasn't doing any soy, so it was mostly like beans and things like that. And then I think I started adding soy back, like, much later. And then brown rice and broccoli and just very clean eating greens and kale and those kind of, those kind of the things that I was mostly eating just really fridge full of like fresh food. Was there as opposed to before. It was like a fridge freezer full of, you know, you know, dinners and things that you would just like microwave. And that's another thing. I stopped using the microwave too, and I had gone to YouTube because how it, you know, can, you know, destroy the food. So, so, yeah, so it was really basic clean eating, just following, you know, the protocol. So a lot of hemp seeds and flax seeds and things like that. Okay. And so then what happened? Did anything else happened before you? Yeah. So after a few months of that, then I did go back to, to check. And what was noticed was that the thyroid of my thyroid had shrunk to its normal size, so it was no longer considered goiter or enlarged. And, the doctor didn't know how long. How long had this been from the diagnosis? So from the time. Oh, this was like about nine months and. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So so when I noticed that, I was like, wait a bit, I had to like, you know, get back in touch with them because I was like, isn't this, you know, significant is this is what it's supposed to be. And it was almost twice the size before from like seven point something now to four point something. And it was like, yeah, that that is it's I've never seen that happen before. So I was like, oh. So I knew it was working. I was like, yes, it's working. I'm going to keep going. I'm going to keep keep it going. Even though the little tumor was still there, I was like, I can at least the thyroid has responded and I'm going to keep going. And so it was about a year, and because I had decided I was going to give it at least a year, and if it didn't work, I might reconsider surgery. And so it was a year at this point, December. And so I said, you know, let's we did the scan ultrasound. It was still there. And I was like, I can't believe it's still there. I was like, stunned. And then I was like, let's do another biopsy, because I just feel like it's gone. I was like, there's no way it's still there because I have seen it happen so many times in my mind. And so he agreed to do a biopsy and every little nodule. So it was like almost somewhere between 12 and 20 biopsies that he took. And as he wanted to cover all the bases and, went back a week later to get the results, and it was like the saddest good news I've ever gotten, because you know, each nodule had his own result and piece of paper, and he looked very somber. And I was like, oh gosh, this is going to be bad news. So he's going through each one one at a time. And showing the, you know, what the results are. There's nothing here. And there's like one more piece of paper and he's still looking sad. And I was like, oh, this must be it. And then he shows it. There's no cancer. There's no cancer anywhere else. What? And fucking sick. I'm like, so he was like, yeah, I need to change your chart because you're no longer a cancer patient. It's, you know, oh my god. And I was like, oh my God, thank God. I was so happy. And so he's like, well, but I still think you should have the surgery just in case it comes back. Oh my God, I was typical. I was like, no thank you, I will never see you again. So I got out of there. I was so excited. I had a big party that weekend and wellness party because that was also part of my visualization. So because when fear started creeping back in, I would do a meditation and a visualization and that helped get rid of it. So and, and so I was visualizing planning for a wellness party. Like okay, if we're believing this is going to happen, what are you going to do when it does happen? Oh, I'm going to have a big party. And so this was like Wednesday. I had a big party like Saturday night, you know, healthy vegan food. Invited all my friends who knew, you know, what was going on. And it was a great time. Oh I bet. Did you ever, contact that first doctor and say, hey, by the way. I'm not. He treats me out really well. It's like, I feel like I just didn't like the energy. I felt like, you know, something or something. I just. I didn't. So now I did not go back. Well that's amazing. Have you ever had any other, like, tests or you don't need it because they don't feel it or. Right. I've gone back a few times, but I stopped just like checking. Now at this point I was like, I continue the healthy lifestyle. I, you know, I wasn't as stringent as during the year of recovery, but I do cleanses and I eat healthy and I don't drink and I don't smoke or anything unhealthy. I live, my body products are clean. Everything I do is about holistic, healthy living. So I'm not going to keep living in fear looking for something that's not there at this point. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, you can only do so much and then the rest is like you're just messing with your mind, you know, because you keep yourself stuck, right? Anxiety going back every time I'm like, I'm I'm good. I do my labs and I do, you know, there are other markers of inflammation and things like that that I want to do. I can do that, but I, I don't live in fear anymore about that. So what okay. So can I ask how old you are? Right. I actually, I don't think about it. I literally have stopped counting when I hit 50. I was like, I don't. If people wouldn't ask me, I wouldn't know how old I was. So I think that's good. I think it's 54. I think somewhere between 53 and 54, somewhere. Between 53 and 54. Well, that that is I kind of love that. So if you didn't know how old you were, how old would you think you were? I feel, you know, I feel like it's a mindset, really ages, a mindset. And, you know, I would I would say I feel more like 38, 40. That's my age. 38. That's how old I'm 57. But I always say I feel 38. Great, great. I was like, I didn't like mentally aged after 38. I still I'm in the no. I'm vibrant, I love life, I'm still the rebel at heart. You know, I'm just wiser. Yes, exactly. I love it. That's. And so, well, you just named a bunch of stuff that you do to take care of yourself. Do you still you meditate every day or not? Every day. But I'm working to get back to that. So because of, you know, busyness gets in the way and I'm like, okay, I need to go back to my meditation and my visualization and, and for other things, you know, that I want in my life. So, but yeah, I, I like to get outside every day and the touch nature, touch the trees. So I'm sure people have looked at me weird because I'm leaning on trees, but it's grounding, you know, believing in grounding. Because it, you know, I live in DC, so there's not a lot of ground to put your feet on where a dog hasn't pooped. So I just trees. I agree with that. DCS are great, I love DC, I used to go there a lot for for my job. Before that I left before, you know, before I started this. And, I love that city. It's a great city. But yeah, there's a lot. It's just like every big city, every big city is filled with everybody's. Yeah. So I have a great city. I love your tree. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's that's part of what I do. And like I said, I just keep a very, you know, organic food, clean lifestyle, minimize processed sugar. You know, if I'm having sweets, it's usually something I've made myself where that's sweetened with, like, maple sirup or, you know, stevia or something like that. So just being very cognizant of everything that, you know, coming in contact with our skin and internally. Yeah. Your skin especially I know I, I'm sure people know that. But like your skin is a delivery system. So every product you put on your skin gets into your body and. Yeah. And what do you have favorite health or beauty product? Yeah, for a lot of moisturizers, I just use like shea butter and coconut oil. And then sometimes I'll use like a Lafia as a brand if I'm saying that I've. Used that. Cream. Yeah, Bronner's occasionally, but it can be a little drying, so I don't use it all the time. But the ingredients are very. Doctor Bronner's products are very clean. I use, organic makeup, like Zuzu, I think it is, and that kind of thing. So, I don't have, like, multiple ten step skincare routine. It's just basic, and with, with clean products. You're doing something right. Your skin is gorgeous. Yeah. You put the shea butter coconut on your face. I don't put that on my face because it can be. What do fogging your pores. So I use a vitamin C serum, face lotion, moisturizer. So, yeah, it's like that resveratrol or something like that in it. So that's, that's the moisturizer that I use. To do wonders. So, what's what do you have a best piece of advice for aging? Well. I think staying, keeping your stress low, is one thing. You know, obviously drinking, you know, alcohol can age you as well, and it's a risk factor for cancer, so that's why I don't do that. So staying stress free or is low stress is possible. Having fun? I like to laugh a lot. Not taking things so seriously. You know, like when mine and my brother, I have twin brothers. One of them is like, he loves to laugh. So we're together. We're always just cracking up at any and everything. So yeah, laughter is good. I like, I watch comedies and I don't watch anything that's really scary or, you know, anxiety inducing. I just, you know, just kind of live a happy life. And have, you know, good friends and support around, you. Know, we're lucky. I mean, I, I that sounds again, very much in step with my life. I, and I realize that I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. And, you know, I feel like I'm very fortunate that I can live a life that's not just filled with stress, you know, that I'm not having to worry about, you know, how do I work my three jobs and. Right, you know, things like that. But, I agree. I mean, this morning I, I was like, I think I just want to read for a little bit. Like, I know that seems crazy to get up in the morning and, you know, after I've worked out, but I just want to sit on the couch and read and I think I'm just going to read, and I did. I set a timer and I was like, this is very indulgent, but it's. It's it's good. That I can. Very quickly I think that that we're doing what brings you joy is really important. And I drink a lot of water too. So staying hydrated, I think is also key. Yeah. Yesterday on my walk there's a big swing. So I just sat there and like did some swinging outside. I haven't done that in a while. And then it feels really good. Yeah indulgent. But that's what they're here for. So like. Yeah. Oh that's beautiful. And what do you the best piece of advice. Not age related. Just like maybe somebody gave you a great piece of advice once. That's a good question. You know, really I know it might sound a little cliche, but finding your true joy is really the reason we're here. I was like, when I was younger, and I was thinking about, you know, college and things. I was like, what is the purpose of life? And just like, because what I'm being told doesn't sound like it sounds like I'm just repeating life, you know, marriage, kids and rinse and repeat. I was like, does what? But what's the purpose? You know, what is the purpose? And for me, it is about experiencing life to the fullest. And it's not about, you know, this rat race that we end of, you know, trying to survive, but it's finding joy, even wherever you are, because the happiest people do tend to live longer, because that kind of joy, makes your body more alkaline. And when you have a more alkaline body, you get less diseases, and you probably look you younger to I call eating plant based like the fountain of youth. I think that it really does everything for you, you know, from the inside out, which is what you and I have obviously, you know, bought into like, okay, I'm not going to just take medicine and have surgeries and all these things. I'm going to do this from the inside out. And I think that, you know, eating a whole food plant based diet is really what it is, including the fountain of it. That's why we're both 38. Right. Exactly. And then, what is there something that you learned from watching your parents age or. I didn't ask you about your parents? Are they alive or what's. Your, Well, my father, passed about three years ago that he was, like, 93. He was youthful up until his death, you know, he had been, vegetarian since, you know, I don't know, probably 30 years or so. So he had been vegetarian most of his life. But if you talk to him on the phone, he sounded like a 40 year old. You didn't have that old voice or he wasn't. He never slowed down. And, he still played a saxophone. And so I saw that, you know, aging can be good until it's time, you know? So it's. And my mom is still here, and she looks great and living her life. She loves to travel. So she's all over the place and and and looking great. And so I learned that you don't have to go down in a sad way, in an unhealthy way. And, because a lot of people, you don't have kids who's going to take care of you when you're old? And I'm like me. I'm going to have to. Watch them planning on somebody to wait on me. Not only that, I don't want to put anybody in a position to have to give up part of their life to help me to the bathroom. I'm like, that's not helping. I don't want to do it that way. So I'm going to take care of me and I'm going to. I always said, I'll probably pass away at 99 in my sleep when I'm ready, and that's that's the goal. So, so yeah, seeing them seeing as, definitely the example of that, you can age well, and live well and not have to be dependent. Was a big example. That's beautiful. That's so nice. I can't believe your dad played the saxophone until that late in life. Like to have that kind of lung capacity. Right? Right. He had stopped playing, and then somewhere around his, I don't know, 60th something birthday. He's always talking about it. I actually bought him a saxophone and was like, okay. And it was Christmas Day. And he opens it up and we're like, and he just starts playing. We've never heard him play, you know, like just like that. It all came back and then he just started playing again, at churches and things and all that. So yeah. Yeah, it was a stick that was good. So yeah, he was a good example of just being happy. You know, having a positive outlook really does change, you know, your body chemistry and just how life responds to you. Exactly. I think that's. Yeah, that's some good advice. And then what is your favorite concert you've ever been to? Oh, I like to ask everybody this because I just love concert. I love going to rain. Right? It's always, oh, no. Yeah. You know, it's my favorite. Would have to be a very long time ago was Shark Day. I shot at, It was an open anthem, like arena shows outside, and her voice just reverb. It was just so beautiful. To hear her voice out, I would have to say that's my favorite. There's been a lot of good ones, but the the sound quality of her voice outside with the acoustics was like, amazing. So she sang, Sweetest Taboo was at her bed or whatever it was. Yeah. Her. Yeah. Yeah. She has a beautiful voice. That's a good. One. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of good ones. That was. That was great. That's a good favorite one. And I love the outdoor amphitheaters too. The so nice. It's always like a beautiful night to look up and hear your favorite song. And it's so good. I love to share my new cookbook. I have one. Please. Copy here. It's Oh that's right. Yeah. Stop playing go vegan. It's, It's beautiful. Getting serious. Vegan. Recipes to prevent and reverse disease. So this is just out, just a few months now. So I'm really excited. About that. Folks can get that on my website. So it's, it's been, you know, many years of recipes tried and true. And it's got a lot of focus on a lot of different things, like immune boosting recipes, thyroid nourishing recipes, things for where do you get your proteins? One of those common questions. So there's that there too. There's that chapter as well and many others. So it's very informative and educational. Recipe book as well. What what are some of your favorite recipes out of there? Does it have the garlic toast recipe in there? No, that's actually not in. I would probably say, oh, the ricotta lasagna. So I do a cashew ricotta with the red pepper like lasagna that that has to be like one of the favorites. It's really good. Yeah. So. Oh, that sounds delicious. I'll put that in the show notes. It's a beautiful cookbook. I'm glad that you brought that up. Thank you for reminding me. So what's it called? Stop. Stop playing. Plan your weekend. Yeah. I mean, that says it. All right. I know it's like, let's get serious with our health. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you again. I really have enjoyed talking to you. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. And I appreciate the work that you're doing well as well. So thank you. Take care. Bye bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.