Role Reversal: Parenting Aging Parents with Kim Barnes

What happens when the roles reverse and you find yourself parenting your parents?

In this episode, Lauren Bernick sits down with Kim Barnes, co-founder of Parenting Aging Parents, to talk about the challenges and unexpected realities of caregiving. They dig into how to start tough conversations before a crisis hits, the truth about long-term care insurance, what you really need to know about Medicare and Medicaid, and why community support is a lifeline for caregivers.

They also explore dementia, the hidden risks of certain medications, and why caregivers must prioritize their own health if they want to show up fully for their loved ones.

If you’re navigating this season, or know it’s coming, this conversation is packed with insights and practical wisdom you won’t want to miss.

https://parentingagingparents.com/

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Transcript

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Hi friends! My guest this week is Kym Barnes, the co-founder of Parenting Aging Parents. We talk about how to best prepare for all potential scenarios, how to navigate paperwork, dementia, how to get your parents to comply, burnout, and just so many things. If you don't have parents, this might be an episode that you want to share with someone who is going through the heartbreak and overwhelm that role reversal brings. It's a good one. Well, you may already know that I'm a huge proponent of a whole food plant based diet. I reverse my heart disease, lost 20 pounds, lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol by following this way of eating. So if you're ready to add more plant based meals to your life, head over to my website. Well, elephant.com after the show and grab my free cookbook as my gift to you. And if you're really ready to reverse disease like I did, check out my online class ace Plant Based Eating While You're There. I made this class as easy as possible, and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And of course, please reach out to me at Lauren at age like a badass mother.com or L on social media. I love hearing from you. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Don't be shy. And now here we go. Hi friend, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. From rebels and rule breakers to wellness warriors and wise women. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing, and we're not even close to finished. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Kim Barnes spent more than 30 plus years on the air. She was an award winning reporter and news anchor for 15 years. Since leaving the news, Kim is seen in corporate videos, commercials, a movie, and also does voiceover work. Kim taught television news reporting at the University of Texas, her alma mater. That's where she also met her husband, former sportscaster Mike Barnes. The dynamic duo has worked together as Barnes Team Media, doing communication training. They also have parents in their 80s, which led them to accidentally started an online platform called Parenting Aging Parents. In 2021 to support those who are helping their parents as they age. They now lead an online community of more than 28,000 adult children, and have a website with 120 plus interviews with industry experts. They are passionate about providing content, connection and community to make this stage of life less overwhelming, confusing and lonely. Please welcome my guest, Kim Barnes. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here with you. I'm glad that you're here. And I also I just want to say, I personally know Kim. We actually went to high school together, but we didn't know each other in high school. But I knew Kim because she was a cheerleader. Well, you're young. Yeah. You're younger. You're younger than I am. Yeah. Even though I don't look it. I'm a grade younger. Yeah. You, we were just talking about how people are surprised to know. How old are you, Kim? I'm 58. 58. I mean, you really do look fantastic. And. And what? Why do you think you look so, so gorgeous? Oh, you're so sweet. You know, I mean, I do think that. Genetics have a lot to do with it. When I look at my mom, she really didn't have that many wrinkle. Yeah, she does now. But, you know. Was a little later to wrinkle. I think my grandmother. Also looked pretty, pretty good until she passed away at 98. Although one little thing that was funny about her is that I thought she didn't. Have any gray. Hair, and I was. And she had dark, dark hair. And I remember saying something to her, I think she was in her 80s or something. I said. You know, it's amazing that you don't have any gray hair. And she just said, what? And she has really, really dark hair, so she colored it. But, but but it has been interesting just to kind of see how we age differently. My dad had. Blonder hair that just got a little darker as he got older and I feel like that's kind of what I've. Yeah. What's happened to me? My hair has gotten browner. If you will, but I. Don't I don't have gray. Hair, but I have browner hair, than I used to, but I cut her hair. I highlight it, I do, I do some highlights. Yeah, I do some highlights. Yeah, I do like some highlights. Occasionally. But one thing that was funny is that, and. I don't know if this really has anything to do with it, but I remember saying something to my daughter one time, who's 25, about the fact that. You know, people will often. Say that they're surprised that. And of course, as soon as I say that, somebody's going to look at me and say like, oh, gosh, I thought you were 62, you know? So I think you look great. But but she actually made a comment one time. She just said, mom, you. Probably look a little bit better because you've never smoked her drink. And I said, oh, okay. Maybe so. Yeah. I mean, to me. So I don't I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But I think it does. Yeah. So clean living. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No you look great and thank you. But yeah. And so we went to, we went to Robert E Lee High School in Houston, Texas together now named Tiny Wisdom, which is a hilarious name for a school, isn't it? Do you remember it's named after an old teacher? Yes. Oh, yes. I was on yearbook staff. I knew Mrs. Wisdom well. And so it is funny because people think, oh, wisdom High school. That's kind of. Yeah, that's silly. And I know tiny wisdom. It's just like you're only going to be a little bit smart if you go there. So. Right. I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah. Named after a beloved teacher there. So that's really funny. But anyway. Well and it and, you know, then we sort of reconnected in this or connected because like I said, we didn't really know each other, but, in a women's networking group and, you know, we've kind of, stayed in touch a little bit, but then I really did actually start using your parenting aging parents platform. And I have to say, I am not a big joiner of things, especially like Facebook groups, because to me, I feel like it always devolves into just people complaining and blah blah. But I really didn't find that with your group. That's one reason I was so impressed, and even I wasn't going to join it until I got an email and it said something discussing narcissistic parents, and I was like, oh, this. Maybe they do understand what I'm going through because, you know, in the back of my mind I'm like, nobody knows what I'm going through. It's just nobody has this same situation. And it turns out maybe it's like a generational thing. I don't know. But I think a lot of people are dealing with narcissistic parents and it adds like another level because. Right, you're just dealing with all these things, trying to take care of your parents, and then they are not appreciative or maybe not able to appreciate or, I don't know, maybe we could talk about that a little bit. But anyway, I found it to be very helpful. And I actually found, an assisted living place for her through your platform by asking, you know, and so I really did think it was very, very helpful. Thank you. We have been just so. I don't know about pleasantly surprised or not even surprised necessarily. You know, when we started. The platform, it was really a little bit as an experiment to see are there other people that want to. Discuss this? Because what. I was really noticing is that this affects every family to some degree and at some. Point, yet nobody. Talks about it. Which makes it even more confusing, more. Overwhelming, more lonely. All of those. Things. And you don't even, you know, I always say you don't even know what you're supposed to Google. I don't even know what I'm looking for here. When we started the group, we thought that we would, you know, start the community and see if people. Wanted to have. Be part. Of that conversation, because we just felt like, if. You know, if we do talk. About it, we can help each other. And we also. Started doing the interviews at the same time, since we thought, well, we're former journalist, that's what we know how to do is interview people. And what we felt like from the beginning was that would be the part that would be. The. Most valuable. And while it is so important to get the accurate information. Because when you. Google, you're going to get all kinds of answers, and how do you even know what applies to me? So the the information of course. Is so important. But what we didn't even realize. To. The extent. Of the. Importance of the community and just that feeling of I'm not the only one going through. This. And even though it doesn't fix. Your problem or my problem or my situation or your. Situation, it at least is that, you know, not. Just misery loves. Company kind of of adage, but just truly. It just. Makes you feel. Like I'm not the only one. Who is. Sitting here in the middle of the day trying to manage. Doctors. Appointments, work, etc. I'm thinking I'm just going to go a little bit bonkers if I can't get this figured out, or I've spent three hours on the phone with mom's health insurance today and oh my gosh, just let me bang my head against the wall kind of thing. I think just having the fact that. You know, that other people are, you know, locking arms with you and again, they're doing their own journey while you're doing yours. It just still there's so many commonalities that can just help you feel like you're not the only one. Yeah. And that is really true. And, I remember people posting like, pictures of, you know, taking care of their dad. There is one lady in particular who's she put her dad in these cute, funny t shirts every day. And it was, you know, it did make you feel a little bit better because it's true. Like, I cannot tell you. And you know, this is true. All the hours I spent on the phone trying to get, like, just say her long term care insurance started. And that was just I was like, these people are just hoping that I'm going to give up. And I did not. And, maybe let's start there with like, because my mother, I was very fortunate she had two long term care insurance policies. And, that's like maybe something that people that are our age now in their 50s or 60s, you know, maybe could think about purchasing for their kids in case, you know, they get sick. That's just something to throw out there. But I don't would I think they don't even make the kind of policy that my mom had anymore because it was so good. You're exactly right. No, they do not that many of those companies have gone out of business. Oh, I bet they didn't. They just didn't. Their algorithms or their, you know, actuary tables or whatever were not very accurate as far as, okay, we're going to give these great benefits. And if, if the average age they live to. Is X, well then we. Can afford to do that. But if they go ahead and live longer than that, then that's my understanding, is that a lot of the companies have gone out of business because. They just couldn't, you know, they had promised such. Great benefits and it's not sustainable. And so I don't yeah, I think you're right. Most of the long term care insurance policies, the interview that we did, I'm not an insurance agent. I don't sell. Long term care insurance. But a lot of the ones that the financial planners talk about or the insurance agents talk about are more of a hybrid plan, maybe a life insurance with a writer or some other kinds of things to be able to provide. Because a lot of the policies back in the day, also from what I understand, were very much more like your car insurance or your homeowner's insurance, where you get it for the year. And if. You don't use it, then. Oh, well, your premiums just went to nothing. You know? Peace of. Mind, perhaps. But that. Was often some of the ways the long term care insurance policies were as well. So if you never ended up using it. That was just, you know, money, money, money, money. That you were spending all those years for premiums that you never got to benefit from, and a lot of those now have ways to pass along to your heirs. You know, if it's more of a life insurance with, with some sort of a. A health. Care writer or that kind of thing. So they do look a little different now. I bet, because my mom was probably one of the ones that bankrupted them. I mean, she she got hundreds of thousands of dollars of benefits. I don't know what we would have done without it. So she had two and one had it was called a homemakers, something like she just got $4,000 a month just for being a homemaker. On top of all her health care. I am not kidding. It was crazy. But to get them started, I want to tell you my my advice on this and you might have some advice too, is to look through their policy or you know, if they have one and get ready. If you haven't used it yet, see what the benefits are. Call them up. Just say what is the daily benefit? There's one usually for like, skilled nursing, one for assisted living, one for, you know, just having somebody come in the house and take care, see what it is daily and, just get ready to start, do some paperwork because it is tough. Have you do you have any advice about that? We neither of. Our parents have long term care insurance policy, so we haven't had to go down that road. But your advice is is very is very spot on as far as. Know. What's in the policy and what's covered. Because some of them may have very specific. It's. Only going to be valid if they're in skilled nursing, but not if they're in assisted living. It may be that it's only if they're in a community. Not at home. Or vice versa. So there's there can be some very, very, very specific. Mentions in there that will be really important to. Know so that you. Can make better decisions on. Okay. Well then if, if we need to. Have if we need to be able to use this. Let's make sure that we're in the environment that's going to allow us to. And there are companies out there also who can help you. If you do have either a policy that you're trying to get initiated and you're having a lot of trouble, you got denied or just want that help from the very beginning. There are companies. And again. How would you know, if because. I've never done this before. So, so many of these services and providers that are out there that can help us, I would know about them because I've never had to use them personally. And so, yeah, there are companies that are out there that it that can help you navigate this process because. It is designed, you know, a lot of times that, you know, I think, you know, homeowner's insurance can kind of be the same way. Do they'd rather you not have to use your, your policy then then then use it. But, but. There are ways to be able to make sure that you get the benefits that they deserve. Do you have information on your website about that? On parenting, aging parents. We have an. Interview that we did about long term care insurance, kind of explaining what it is, some of the different kinds of policies that there are today. And we do have somebody on our resource guide currently that's a company that can help you do that too. Okay, cool. Maybe we should back up a little bit. So like let's talk about I mean, we just jumped into that, but like. Right. What what tell tell me maybe what's the most common thing that you see that people have issues with. Is it dementia? Well, I think there's I think there's probably yeah I think there's probably two. And I think one is dementia, which. Is just kind of a we can talk more about that. I think it almost is just a whole category by itself because it just. Throws. Everything off. I feel like just everything becomes different because of that. I think the next. Separate from that, I think the. Most, the most common. Issue I see. Is. I guess really overall it's. Communication. As far as when. You have a situation where mom and dad aren't, maybe you don't feel they're safe at home anymore and you really want to move them to move to an independent living community. They don't see it that way. They think everything is fine and you're noticing the issues that are, you know, the grass isn't getting mowed, the food is expiring, the refrigerator, you know, just all of. Those things. That you're noticing that really are red flags to you. Nobody's eating very well. Dad fell a couple times, you know, those kinds of things. Or, you know. Is it we need to really talk about not driving anymore, and they don't want to talk about it or, you know, so I think there's so many of those situations that really. Oh, the. Overarching is the fact that it all comes down to communication. And some of that can be done more easily with some parents and some can be a little more difficult depending on their personality and temperament. And again, if you just take dementia out of it completely because that again throws it, throws it off. But I think that it's really figuring. Out. What appeals to the parent. And what. Is it that will make. Them it become. Their decision. Because any, any time it can be our own decision. And we know this when you're when you have kids and you're. Trying to decide, do you want to wear red socks or. Blue socks? You know, those kinds of things. When you can. Empower your kid to make a decision and let it be theirs, they're generally going to go. You know. Go with it a little bit more, even if it's, you know, do you want broccoli or. Green beans? You know, those kinds of things. But I think the same. Can be true. And not to oversimplify it with our parents, because obviously with our parents, oftentimes the stakes are a lot higher. The issues are a lot bigger, although sometimes you may just be trying to get your parents to eat more vegetables, too. I mean, just like with with your children, truly. Because as. They age, their, their, their sweet tooth becomes stronger and they may not want the healthier. Choices. But I think when you can think. Of what's going to appeal to them in our situation with Mike's parents, his dad was much more open to the idea of them moving from out in the country an hour east of Dallas to an independent living community with my mother and having Alzheimer's. He was much more open to that discussion because he we approached. It or they he and his sister Mike and the. Sister approach it from this. Is going to be better for mom. And that made him listen. Where if it had been just we think. It would be better for you. To he. Would have probably been more inclined to say, I'm. Good, I'm good. But he would. He'll do anything if he. Feels like it's better for. Her. There are other parents who may be willing to do it, because it's going to make your life easier. As the. Kid. Some do, some don't. It depends, you know, and it sounds like, you know, you've been through the situation where that. Might not that would not have been the right play. That would not have been the right discussion. And, you know, even with my mom, who's very she's very, she's pretty. Easygoing. And, and, and and I don't I. Mean, we can kind of boss her around a little bit. Don't I won't let her listen to this, but. You know, but we can we can kind of we can. More tell her what we think she should do. And part of that is because my parents divorced when we were in high school. She was single for a long time. She did remarry, and then her husband passed away. So my brother and I have been kind of the. Key. Parts of her life for so long. But even still, when she when we were having to really wrestle with the car, I just would say, okay, mom, I know that if you were to drive down the street. And. Hit a kid on their bicycle in your neighborhood, you would never forgive yourself. Oh, that's good. And that was a little bit of the approach that I took. And again, not that you want to guilt them into doing stuff or or shame them or whatever. It's figuring out what might be the, the what will appeal to them. And let you know. Is that's really that's a very good point. And that was actually surprisingly easy to get my mom to move from her house. My mom and her husband to they started an independent living. And honestly, I, I was like, mom, wouldn't it just be so nice to just have friends around all the time and activities and just go to the dining room? You don't have to cook. And I would be like, it's like living in a hotel because, you know, she loves the hotel. And so I guess without even realizing I was picking the right way to approach her, I did, and she was like, yeah, that sounds nice. And we did find, you know, nice places and and I was lucky that I moved her before she got sick. So she did get to enjoy some of the nice independent living. And I think at that point, my other advice, and maybe you can talk about this, was at that point when she was moving, I kind of said, let's can I look through your bills and can we kind of get an idea of what's going on just in case, God forbid something happens and I have to take things over, then I'll already know what I'm doing. And she again, so easy, was like, how about you just take over all the bills and just pay all that? You just handle everything? And I was like, well, crap, I didn't want to start that. Yes, you know what? It's better than having to struggle with it later. So yes. Yes. So yeah. Yeah. I mean what do you have to say. Well yeah. The, the finances. Can be a whole nother thing when we, when we do presentations, a lot of times we'll talk about, you know, one of the five. Key. Conversations that you need to have. And finally, and the financial part of it is such. A key point because the sad. Part is that. The that. Situation, their financial situation. Affects. Almost every other decision. Can they move to. An independent living community? Can they afford to do that? Do they have options? Can they bring in care if they if they really want to stay in hotel, stay at home? And so. I think that having those conversations and I think. The way you approached it sounds great because it was a little bit more of a hypothetical. Hey, let. Me just start getting getting aware of this every situation a little bit different. We had to sort of more forcefully take. Over and. Not forcefully would be the right word, but. But more. Proactively because mom had gotten scammed a couple times. Yeah. And that once that happened. And. We started noticing. That. There was just a little bit of processing that wasn't going on quite as it needed to for her to keep paying her bills. Herself. We took we. Took over that and and started managing that. And like in your case, you ended up managing it before. You really had. Intended. And in our case, we really had to. I mean, it was really for protection because she was getting so many phone calls and someone had gotten into her bank account. And, you know, those kinds of things, you know, you've seen, oh, we hear the saddest, saddest. Stories in our community about parents who have either been the the romance scams where, you know, somebody thought that some country singer had been, you know, had befriended her and was now in love with her, and it was going to. You know. Move her, but he just needed some money to do blah, blah, blah, you know. Just awful stuff and even just scams that, that, that through the computer. Where, you know, if you've seen the movie beekeeper terrifying. It's just it's more of a shoot em up kind of movie. But at the beginning. The premise, the whole thing starts because of a woman getting scammed out of, I guess, somebody's garden. Somebody calls, says, you know, Microsoft needs to be updated. She calls the number, they have her click some, click some keys, and now they're in her in her. Computer and. They take all the money for a nonprofit. And anyway, it's awful. But. But we hear stories, real life stories of things where either they get scammed because they're they're promised that they've won a sweepstakes or something like that, or my mom fell prey to the gift card scam. Which, just when you think about it logically, is so. Ridiculous. I got something an email the other day from somebody that said, hey, could you help me? My niece has a birthday, but I can't get money to her yet. Can you do this and I'll pay you back kind of thing? And there's just so many out there. But I. Think that, that that. Came from somebody you knew allegedly. It like they're. Not. Well, yes. Because people. Right. Because people. Will hack into people's email addresses and then be able to send emails on their behalf that look like they're coming from. Them. Right. But that finance, that finance piece is just because the stakes. Are so high and the care for an aging parent is so expensive or can be so expensive, you obviously want to protect every penny that they have. And scams are definitely not the way you want them or them giving money to people that they think that they need to. But getting that that. Picture of what their finances will look like. And knowing that people can change too. My father in law was always very tight lipped, very. Mike had no idea how much his dad made growing up. He was a CFO of a company. But as he's gotten. Older and wanting to make sure that Mike's mom is well cared for, he, you know, gives them the, the the, the spreadsheet, if you will, just to say, if something happens to me, here's how you'll care for. Mom and and. Figuring out what is the right approach. And do you want to be on their bank accounts? Do you not want to be on their bank accounts? You know. What are the there's so many different ways that you can help, in that aspect, but just really having to figure out what that what makes the most sense in your situation. Everybody's situation is a little bit different. Don't you really want to try to get on their bank accounts on everything, so that you don't have to probate a will later? Were there, and there's quite a few interviews on the website. About legal stuff and wills and probate and, and all of that. And there it. Gets a little it can get a little bit. Tricky most of the time. Yeah. There are things like Ladybird Deeds if you're in the state of Texas, and I think there are a number of other states that have a lady bird deed so that it's, it's more of a for your house where it's a, it's basically kind of a transfer on death. So that you're right. So that way it just goes automatically to whoever it's supposed to go to. Yeah. They're either called. Something else in another state. Probably not Lady Bird, but. I know. That the dad lives. Oh. Is a is it lady bird. There's a lady. There's a, there's a lady bird trust in I think 7 or 8 states. I forget the that's on the website. I can't remember the number of them. And then the other states have something called transfer under transfer. There's, there's, there's. Some differences about what they do exactly. And who has if you have authority about a sale while they're still alive, things like that. But I think that there are. And when you're on a bank account. Just have being on. A bank account, does it make it? There's sometimes a box you have to check that says that this will be transferred on death. So you have to make sure that all those boxes are checked because sometimes things default. Off. And there are things that you can do. We have a whole interview on how do you know what happens when you go through probate, and some of the things that you can do to try to help avoid that. If you don't have enough. That. It's going to have to, you know. There's a lot of. Yeah, there's a lot of assets you might want to in some situations, you want to. Trust. In some situations you can make a lot of this that will transfer automatically. And there you know there's different there's different. I don't want to. Get into too much legal stuff because that's that's not what I mean. There's a lot to know. There's a lot to know. Yes. Know for sure for sure. And it also helps us I think think about. As we're getting older. Okay. What are the things that. I need to be putting in place now for myself? We realized a few years ago when we started parenting aging parents and did our first interview on Powers of Attorney. Mike and I looked at each other and realized one. We had done. A floppy disk. Well, when our son was born. You know. Literally printed off the form of a floppy disk and had it, notarized and signed at Mike's dad's office. We had. Never updated it, and now we. Had two kids, and one's 21, one's. 24. We had never we had never updated it. We just we hadn't thought about it and. We didn't have powers of attorney ourselves. Right. We've since. Rectified that. But I think it helps you realize. Okay. Yes. Let's make sure Mom and Dad have their documents in order. What are the documents that we need to also be getting an order as well. Yeah. That is it's shocking when you think I gotta get myself together now for my kids. Well I mean we made up we had both of our kids do. Powers of attorney as well because. They if. Something were to happen to them and they're not married. Can I. Am I going to be able to help and assist them? And if I don't have a power of attorney as even as their parent, I may or may not be able to get some of that access. Oh, really? Once they're 21. Yeah. And that's why a lot of people are maybe it's even 18. That's why a lot of people will tell you that when your kids go off to college, you should get at least of a, you know, kind of a basic Po, because if something were to happen to them in. College. They're, they're they the hospital doesn't necessarily have to talk to you or those kind of things because you're not, you know, they're an adult. Yeah. I hadn't even really I mean like I just never thought of that. Okay. That's good. So all right so you need to talk to your parents about their finances and then what. Let's keep talking about money because it is so crazy to pay for some of these things like assisted living. So. Okay, let's let's I'm sure people know. So there's like three levels of when you're going to move your parents somewhere. It's like independent living. Well, even before well and. Even before that, there are the. Kind of 55 or actually I think most of them have changed to 60 plus, but 60 plus community is a lot more. They're more like an. Apartment. Complex. For 60 plus. And but they're not going to provide any, any. It's you're independently living. They're totally independent full kitchen. You're cooking your own meals. They might have happy hours or things like that in the in the lobby and some activities. There are quite a few of those in the Austin area, and I know all over the country just more of a more of a senior apartment complex, if you will. Right. Then. Then there's independent living, which is kind of now becoming more of. The senior. Community, if you will, and there are going to be some that are going to be independent living only. That's when my mom first moved. That was what she chose. And we didn't. Think it was the best option. But at the time it was her idea or her decision. And so we just kind of went with it and it worked for a few at a few years and before we moved her again. But that in that sense. When you when it's called independent living, it generally is more like living in a hotel or a dorm or a cruise ship or whatever you want to, however you'd like to describe it or whatever might make your parent. Interesting, where. They're going to have you're still in. An independent apartment. Yet there's going to be a dining room downstairs that provides, depending on the place, usually 2 to 3 meals a day. You have activities that are organized. They may have transportation to the grocery store once a week. They may take you to doctor's appointments if you want to. You may still have. You may still. Drive. There's lots of options. Then after that is going to be assisted living, which is. As it. Sounds, where you're going to be able to get more. Assistance. Same is true where. There's still activities. That. One. The biggest notice difference I noticed was when my mom was an independent living. She had a full kitchen when she moved to assisted living, which just happened a couple months ago after her femur break. There is a refrigerator and that's there's no dish. There's no no. Dishwasher, there's no oven, there's no microwave, there's no cooking appliances, if you will anymore. Right. That was the biggest difference. Yeah. And then after that there is. In some and some of these are going to be called, they're called Chrissy's. Continuing. Care retirement. Community. That is one that has all three levels where my mom lives there. That's a high rise. And there's independent living floors. There's assisted living floors. And in that particular community there's memory care. Right. Memory care being separate. And then there's. Some. Communities might also have skilled nursing where if you're needing to rehab. Or. Then you're getting more into is it a temporary stay for being able to heal from a stroke, a sickness. Of. Of bone break or something like. That? And if that. Needs to become 24 over seven care, then that can also become a little bit more of your nursing home. Right? Entity. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm just going to say, well, first I actually let's go back to the femur break. Can we talk about that because we talked about this and I said my mom this this I think is a side effect. Because it says right on the medication, I don't know what all the, for your bones. What all the osteoporosis treatments are called, but the one, the one my mom was taking was bone Iva. And there had since been a class action lawsuit. Femur breaks is one of the side effects. It says right on the medicine packaging my mother developed, it was called trigeminal neuropathy, I think, and it was just constant in her jaw, constant pain. So much so it debilitated her. She couldn't get out of bed. She it was horrific. So before you put your parents on these bone medications, I'm going to go ahead and warn you to really look into that because your mom had something. My mom had something. Luckily, my mom was able to get, a surgery called CyberKnife. It was a laser surgery, and it basically cut the nerves. So she was always asking me, am I drooling? I feel like I'm drooling. And she wasn't she right? Right. But she just was. But she could feel it. She couldn't feel her mouth, which was better than being in constant pain. So, you know, just is that what you think your mom's was from. The the the brief. Conversation? We're going back to the orthopedic next week for a follow up. So I'll be curious to just get dig in a little bit more. But he, the orthopedic, when he. Saw it, said that it's not. Uncommon. For somebody if you've been on osteoporosis medicine for a length of time because of the way it. Breaks. Because the femur is a really hard bone to break. You know, I, I can remember somebody and a guy friend in high school who I. Right playing his. Yeah. It's your thigh bone. Playing. Football and that was you know or something crushed it. I mean it was like it's like it's that's a hard bone to break. And he, you know, had. Even said that. It. I wouldn't be surprised if it had been. Had weakened. To the point where when she was getting out of bed at midnight, 1230 in the morning to go to the bathroom, that it might not have snapped. And that was what made her fall. It wasn't just because, again, it's a hard bone to break and it's not uncommon from what he shared with me in that age group, for people who'd been on osteoporosis medicine for an extended period of time and who knows, maybe it. I haven't researched it all, so I don't want to. You know, make. Crazy, claims. But but it but it you know. May have something to do with your predisposition for, you know, the way your bones are made and or how long you've been on it and, and that kind of thing that, that is, that was really scary to hear. That she had been she had been. Complaining, actually, of her thigh. Hurting. And I had. Asked a couple of people about it and everybody just thought it was muscular. So that would that that is the biggest word. The good lesson, the. Biggest word of wisdom is just that if you ever have bone pain, from what I understand, feels different. I asked my physical therapist about it. It's a deeper, deeper pain. If you. Have a parent or frankly, I guess if you. Do have a pain that just feels, you know, deep, deep, deep, it might be bone pain, which. That's something that if. You because the. Doctor told me if he had looked at her, if she'd had an X-ray the week before. He would have he would have said he could have told, he would. Have been able to look at it and say, this bone is about to break. We need to do. She would. Have still had to have surgery and put a rod in it, which wouldn't have been. Great. It might have been a little bit of an easier recovery though, on a intact bone versus one that I mean, literally. Her bone went like this snapped. It was just it was displaced. And there's a big term for it. I can't remember it off the top of my head. That displaced something, something. But he just he said he's in. Of course. He's a trauma orthopedist. So he sees. That more then than than the average. Yeah. But it was really made me. So sad because she had. Been complaining. And I've been asking. Like, what? You know her. She's complaining about her leg hurting. What is it? And nobody could. We didn't. Get an. X-ray. So again, that's another was if you. Have leg pain get an X-ray. That's the. Cheapest diagnostic tool there. Is for something like. That. Yeah. And I'm just going to say, you know, I'm not trying to trash these companies, but there have been class action lawsuits, so I, I know this is an issue. Okay. So getting back to paying for these things, what does it does Medicare or Medicaid pay for any of these things now. Well, well, not in not in independent living. And most. Of the time not in. Assisted. From what I have learned. And it's. There's again. Everybody there's so many different little like except. This. Situation. Kind of thing. But for the most part independent living, assisted living and memory care is for the most part private pay. And it gets really expensive. There may be sometimes there's a special Medicare program or a medicaid waiver. If you're on Medicaid, they're not for independent living, but for some of the other levels, if you will. Now, when my. Mom was in skilled nursing for her recovery from her bone break. Yes. Medicare, paid. Care, Medicare, Medicaid, Medicare, they pay because. Yeah, like 120 days or something. A year gets she gets it gets a. Little it gets a little tricky in there. Yeah. Because I know that when I was I appealed the first. Time. When they were trying to discharge her after three weeks. And what I was kind of advised was that there's a max I think it it's either 100, 120, you get a max per year. And their concern was, well, you don't want to try to burn them all now because what if you need them later. And but I know it's. Well I know. And so that's where it gets a little tricky. And and. Frankly, I felt like she would benefit from getting back to a little bit more of her. Routine, even. Though she wasn't getting. As much. Physical therapy in her when she went back to assisted living. Because you're you're getting outpatient physical therapy. It's not just in skilled nursing. It's right there and you're getting it five days a week. And that was necessary and so important when she first was there. But it got to the point after she'd been there for a while, because it's really more like being in the hospital because you're in a hospital bed. It's, you know. You're in a four, you're not in your normal. Situation. And so it just it's. Really a hard balance because you want them to be getting that physical therapy. And you also want them to be back in a place where they're more comfortable and getting, you know, just getting a different attention and having activities and things like that to do. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's everything's like a balance. Okay. So the so how do you pay it. So what do you do now? I guess that's why a lot of people end up having to have these, their parents in their house or move in with their parents. And then that's when the stress, I mean, I can't even imagine my I was so stressed just trying to manage her life, but not physically take care of her. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about these angels who are physically caring for their parents and, well, how do they still take care of themselves? Like, where's the balance for how do you manage that? It is. Tough stuff. It is really tough. And I think the I think what happens is a lot of people aren't taking good care of themselves. There are statistics that show that cases of I forget what the there's a pretty high percentage of where the caregiver is the one who ends up getting really sick and or even dying first because they're so focused on the person they're caring for. And typically, I think. That's. Often when it's a spouse. You know, has a. Spouse, is caring for the other spouse, and they're both older. And. And can definitely. Be. A really a bad recipe. And that was one of the reasons why we really pressed with my father in law to get him to move my mother in law to memory care was because we could see how much it was wearing on him. Yeah. Just the fact of, you know, if you're with somebody who's not ever sleeping, a full night's rest, well, you aren't either. And that you can only do for so long. And but I think. That especially with the adult children who are having parents either moving in with them or they're moving in with the parents, it's really hard. And, you know, we hear stories all the time of, I haven't had a day off and I'm on, you know, 24, seven, seven days a week. And sometimes my sibling can't find the time to come spend one. Weekend. Because they're away. And so they don't even realize what the intensity is for that experience. And it's really having to figure out are there ways to be able to get a respite stay? Can you afford to bring in. Some help. During the day so that you can. Go. Out for a little while just to exercise? Or if you're trying to work still, you know, so many people. We also hear that a lot. Where how am I going to keep working full time if I need to be away at my job? I can't do it from home, or even if I'm doing it from home. But mom. You know, I'm trying to. I'm on the computer and trying to work, and mom needs me every five minutes. It's really hard to get your work done. So I think that it. Is a really, really hard balance being able to put people in place around. You. Whether it's private caregivers or a caregiver agency that can come in and provide some of that. Extra help if. There are day daycare programs, if you will, that you can potentially have your parents attend. Which. Are going to be cheaper than them living. In a community. And give you that some of those opportunities. But but again, most of that's going to be private pay. One thing that a lot of people don't realize though, is there are there are often veteran benefits. If you're a parent is the vet is a veteran or the spouse of a veteran, there are oftentimes some different benefits there. Again, depends on when they served and some of those kinds of things. But there are ways. How do you. Find that out? Go to the VA's website okay. Yeah. There's a I mean. Literally just do a Google search for. Veterans aid in attendance or qualifying for, benefits. And you can, you can do a quick, a few quick Google. Searches and you can find some information about those kinds of things. And there are there are ways that you can certainly submit that yourself. And there are also companies that can help you get all the paperwork, because. You. First thing you have to do is get all that paperwork. Do you have their ID number and some of those things and that's one of the things that when we created the caregivers. Key. We tried to include all of those kinds of things. When you can. Ask those questions, when they're hypothetical and we're just gathering information, it might be more accessible then if you're in the middle of a crisis and then there has dementia. He doesn't remember where those those documents are or things like that. Okay, okay. What can you tell us about the caregivers key? That's something we can get on your website. Sure. Yes. Yeah. It's actually there's a there's one right there. Right, right. Well, yeah. But a lot of people are just going to be listening some. Of course. Yes. So it is a workbook. That we created called The Caregivers Key A guide for Gathering Essential Information. It's on our website. We also have a digital version as well. So there's a spiral bound copy and a digital version depending on your preference. But it really is just to kind of prompt you about all the things that you may not even realize. That you need. To know, whether it's of course, some of the obvious, their prescriptions, their drug allergies, their doctors, but that as well as who mows their grass, what bills to their pay online. Do we need account numbers for their online bills? What are their financial? What's their financial information? Do they have a pension? Do they have only Social Security? You know, those kinds. Of things that you have a sense of their financial picture as well as even just some of the personal health stuff. Do you know the alarm code? Do you know their password to their phone? Do you know what their final wishes are? There's it's just a place to be able to kind of prompt you so that you. Can think. About and gather that information that you might not even think that you might need. And maybe don't need right this minute, but maybe. Need somewhere down the road. Gosh, Kim, you got a big brain on you. That's a good, good guide. The caregivers key. Okay, so get that on parenting aging parents.com. That's very smart that that would have been like really helpful to me to have. Yeah. Yeah okay. So let's talk about dementia now because like you said that is its own whole special thing. So your husband's actually, like you said, going through that with his mother. Right. She has advanced Alzheimer's. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. But also hear it so. Well, no. Here, here's the thing. This is again, you don't know what you don't know. And this was until we. Started doing interviews about all the things that I needed. To know about. Dementia is just an umbrella term. It is like, it's like cancer. There are cancer is a term, and there's a bunch of different kinds of cancer. Dementia is the same dementia as an umbrella term. And underneath it there are about seven. Of the most. Common types of. Dementia. Alzheimer's being the one that we hear the most about. But when you hear about some of the it was at Bruce Willis that has front, front, I always pronounce it wrong. Frontal temporal dementia. That's a that's a type of dementia as well. That's different. It's front in your frontal temporal area of your brain. They affect different parts of your brain. Vascular dementia is is a common one. And there are some other ones as well. We actually have an interview on that. The most common types of dementia. My mom is considered to have mixed dementia, Alzheimer's and vascular dementia together. And some of and you probably heard about Lewy body dementia is another one. So what's that for people? That is a different that's. Just a different type. And that one I'm trying to think of, which there's been some. Some celebrities I'm trying to remember, if that. I don't want to do that. I think, is that what Celine Dion has? Oh no she has no, she. She. Yeah. Maybe her husband had that. I really am associating that with her. But. Okay. Lewy body that. Yeah. There's there's been quite a few. Public, I can't remember. That's what Robert Robin Williams had. I can't remember again. I don't want to I don't want to start making bad things. Right. Which are starting rumors. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to I don't want to make up any rumors. But Louis de. Lewy body is. One of the most, just like that. Some of the symptoms are just awful. Where they have just these awful. Awful hallucinations and can make you, you know, think that the that your wife of 50 years is now trying to kill. You or, you know. Really, I've heard an expert doctor, Tam Cummings, talk about it and she talks about that. They have these awful hallucinations of children, bugs. And things like that. And so it's just it's. A really awful, really awful type. Not that the others aren't bad, too. But, you. Know, we're now at the stage with Mike's mom where. And she's been this way for a while, but she doesn't know who anybody is, and it's just heartbreaking. I was we were just there a week or so ago, and she was just scared. She didn't know who she was. She didn't think, you know, she was like, nobody knows me. And, just. Was scared and even reverting back to things about mommy and daddy and things like that, which is just. Because you think she's a child or. We think, yeah, that's we. Can tell. And the way out. I've heard Doctor Cummings describe it is that if you think about your life in file cabinets and you've got, you know, the file cabinets of your life and the top being the most recent, and they go down to where, you know, from the from your childhood. And she said, it's as if those file. Cabinets just get. Shut. And then you start sort of reverting back. And so that she said, you can literally have an 84 year old woman. Who thinks that she's a. 15 year old playing on the high school basketball team and literally thinks. That or even younger that she's. Four and waiting for her mom or dad to come home from work. And it just it's it. So I think that with dementia, the thing that for. Me that has been most difficult is that it just doesn't make logical sense. If somebody breaks a bone. You're not going to ask them to. Run up the stairs. As a. Recovering you're going to you on and you understand what the recovery looks. Like with. Dementia. What I find, because it doesn't make sense. You know, I'll. Find myself looking at my mom and just being and thinking like. Okay, like, really? You really don't know what you just. Everyone's five minutes ago really like it. Like, it just seems mind boggling. And so that's where you have to really take a step back. And it's so hard. Because. It just doesn't make logical sense. And because of that. A lot of what happens is the like the mental processing, the doing three things in a row, like saying somebody. Telling somebody, can you go. To the bedroom? Can you go grab that and bring it back here? Or even like sometimes with my mom, she'll have a form that she gets. She just reads, I got a bill from the hospital. From when? From her hospital stay. And she said, what am I supposed to do with that? Okay, don't need to do anything. I'll take care of it. Can you get the caregiver to text me a picture of it when she comes tomorrow? Since mom lives three hours away from me, can you have her take a picture of it, text it to me and I'll take care of it. Okay, well. If you think about it, that's. Multiple. Steps. Yeah, she can write. Right? So it's literally. Oh, yeah, I'll do that. Okay. Can you go get the sticky note? Okay. Great. You got the sticky note. Great. Okay. Come back over to the piece of paper okay. Can you stick. It on the paper. Can you write the words. What did you write down? Kimberly okay. That's not going to be enough information. What else do we need to write? Please text to Kimberly or something like that. And so it really is just I mean, similar again, when you're teaching your children. You want to you. Have to break things down. And that's what I'm seeing with my mom as well, is you have to break things down. The sad part, though, is that with our children, they're going to generally. They're going to. Generally be able to take those little bitty steps that you put together are little steps that you've done separately, and they're going be able to put them together and be able to do it all in one task, where unfortunately and with my. When my and, you know, at the at. The more advanced dementia. That's it's not going to it's not going to you can't teach them in the same way. They're not going to pull those together. So I think that and and. Really the hardest part I think. Too, is that when you. Have parents who don't acknowledge that there's an issue. And. Really don't think anything is wrong and are then having, you're seeing the writing on the wall of. Okay. Things are in the wrong places. I'm fighting keys in the refrigerator. I'm finding. You know, bread in the. Pantry or the medicine cabinet in the bathroom or, you know, things like that where you start thinking, oh, things are not going well. And my mom. Is very compliant. That was the word I was looking for earlier. Very compliant. But yet when, when we've had to go through all. Of these doctor's appointments. So when she was going to the emergency room and all of that and meeting new doctors, now that she's in assisted living. And they'll say, oh, okay. We see that you're allergic to this. And, you know, this. Was her first hospital stay since I was in fifth grade. She had never spent the night in the hospital until this break, except more than 50 years ago. But they would say something that. Oh, and they're. Just going down the list of, you know, like, okay, allergic allergies, blah, blah, blah. And dementia, blah, blah. And she's like, I don't have dementia shit, right? So some people know. And are aware and some people are not. And which is better? I don't know, sometimes. Right. Because she just goes. About her merry way. But she doesn't she. Doesn't acknowledge that, that that's an issue. Oh, man. And it's so hard. Like with. Yeah. Like, how do you handle those kinds of things, especially when they're repeating themselves and they're, they don't know when what you're talking about or you have to do something like, mom, have them text it to me. You know what? What? How do you handle that? Patients would be the first key, except that I'm. Not always very patient. And I think anybody. Yeah, well, I kind of joke and and and not everybody finds everybody. Deals with things differently. And I find that I try to find humor where I can. Yeah. So hopefully this, you know, doesn't upset anybody else. But I mean, I kind of joke sometimes that we if we could, if we could just trade parents sometimes I'd be. Much more patient with your mom than I am with my. Own. Yes. Do you know what I mean? So even with my experience sometimes, So I think that it's. Really just. Having to take that step back. And I think when. You can realize and acknowledge. Which sounds kind of funny. They're not doing this on purpose, right? They wouldn't wish. To be at saying the same story over and over and over again if they. Could, if they could help it. And I think when you can kind of come. Try to come from that empathetic place of not bless her heart. Because, you know, like we always joke about how that but but in the nice, in the kindest way, for kind of Syria for real. Like she just really she doesn't realize that she's telling the same story. No, none of us would. You know, even with my kids, sometimes. We'll say, mom, I've already told you that. And I just said, you know what I remember? You know, I know I ask the question, but I actually wasn't listening for the answer. Right? Can you just tell me again? Tell me again. And or, you know, I was doing something. Else at the time, and so I. Yeah, I don't remember the exactly what the details of that were. So I think as much as you can trying to. Sort of be in their world, which is really. Hard and as much as we. Can. For. Me, it's changing the subject that tends to work the best. And that was also true with. Mike's mom when we especially when she first moved to Memory Care, and it was a little rough for, for a few months that she adjusted and just was a little bit confused. And she was not, as. There's different. Stages when you look at the progression of Alzheimer's and there's different stages and everybody reacts a little bit differently, but you know, where you might there might be there's one that's can tend to be a little bit angry or if you will. And because again. The other thing to to think. About it is that in many cases they may be scared to death. Of course. As they are losing control, or especially if they if they understand that they're not remembering that probably is a much scarier place than my mom, who doesn't even know that she's not remembering. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, because you reacted. Because then you're going to be coming from a place of fear of, I don't want you to take things away. And I'm feeling so out of control because I don't. I'm. Not remembering these things. And that's scary versus, you know. Kind of just being like, everything's good y'all. I miss my my sweet mom. I have to say, she's she is so appreciative. And which makes which does make it much easier. And then of course makes me feel terrible that I get annoyed with her. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, well, gosh, she's so sweet and she's trying. She wants to be appreciative. It's just, you know, still driving me crazy. But I think that, I think it's she she's want, you know, she. Wants to be appreciative and and it's just as much as I. Can just, go with that, you know? I'll ask her. Did you have a good day? She'll she'll say, well, I had a great day, and I know better now. Or I'll get an elbow from Mike that says. Don't ask her what she did. She just knows it was a good day. Right? Because she may not she sometimes might remember. Did you have physical therapy? Because that's important. I need to know. Did you have physical therapy today? Because if you didn't, is there somebody. You have to fuss at because you're supposed to have had physical. Therapy? She may remember that though, right? Sometimes. And it's funny. Sometimes she does, sometimes she does. It. There have been there have been many times just in the last. Few. Two months that she's been there while I say, did you have physical therapy? And she'll say, no. And I said, are you sure? No. Are you sure? No. I call and they say, yeah, she didn't. Have physical therapy today. And I'm like, well. She knew. And to check on it anyway, you verify, right? I know, yes, because she's. Not always. A reliable. Witness. The way Mike has. Described it before, which I think is such a great analogy. Is if you think about dementia. As being sort of your brain as Swiss cheese, if you will. Sometimes you have the cheese and. They are just sharp and right on it, and sometimes you hit the holes. And if you think about it that way too, that can sometimes again, just I think again, it's, it's the, it's the fact that you can't see the deficit, if you will, if you saw somebody with a cast. You would never ask them. Why don't you, why don't you run on a marathon? Why aren't you running? Why are you in a wheelchair or. Whatever with. Dementia or any. Any form of dementia? Very often they look completely normal. Yeah. And that's why it can be so frustrating because you just think, okay, you look like you have it all there. How can it not be right? So what? What are. So I know that you could probably talk to them about some things about when they were young, right? Don't they. Isn't that a good way to make conversation with them is just talk about like, tell me about when you I don't know something when you were little or that. Yeah. It can be. Yeah, it can be. And again as things sort of. Disappear, if you will, as you go backward. For the longest time, Mike's mom, every visit would tell us about how when she was 14, she lived in West, they lived in West Texas in a little town, and she would drive her brother at 14. By herself from a little town to Lubbock, Texas. Yeah, to Lubbock to be on this, like after school kids TV show at one of the TV stations. And she would tell us that all the time, and she would talk. You know, tell stories about her sister at that age. And she kind of got stuck. In that about 14. Now she's reverted back more. And but I also think it's interesting, my mom. Has never been a great recolor, if you will. When am I? I remember when my daughter was first born and she was pretty sassy when she was a little a little girl. And I remember. Thinking, I don't I don't think. I would have, would have been like that. I don't know, but I just would have thought I would. And so 20 years ago, I was 25. Years ago, I was asking my. Mom. What was I like as a little girl? And she really couldn't tell me. So I think that I think that you look at different. It's so fascinating, I think, to feel, to see how. Whether it's your Enneagram number or whatever it. Is, but that we all retain. Or reframe memories differently. And it is interesting sometimes to think of what are the things that really stick and what are the things that. You know, you could say, don't you remember we. Were in this class together in high school or whatever. And I would say no. Recollection of even being in that class. But yet I very specifically remember the English teacher who would go out. In the hallway and hit boys with her cane. If you relate to class, you know what I mean? So sure they all did. You know what I mean? But so I think that it's funny how. There are certain things that just that stick, and that would be a whole fascinating conversation. What makes some memory stick and some not. But but yes. Definitely, they're more likely to remember the younger memories. And even it could be at first. It's when you were a. Kid and. Then maybe it goes back a little farther. But those are the kinds of things, because. It does get hard. To have conversations when there's no there's nothing to relate to. Yeah. Mom. Well I'm sorry, I was gonna say mom can still mom can still play a mean, a mean game of gin rummy. She can still beat me. Yeah. Because she's still knocking and playing. You know, she's doing the knock thing where you keep score. And that was something. That she taught me as a kid, but I still don't. I never really played that way. And so. I know how. To play gin rummy. But once you start throwing knots and points and all of this stuff. But she still remembers all of that perfectly. She can still play bridge very well. Wow. The long term memories. And so is it better to lie to them to pretend it's not like what's the best way to handle these things. I. We did one interview that I thought was so fascinating where it's called therapeutic fibbing. Okay. Meaning that doesn't. Make more sense and is a kinder in some ways. To. To lie for lack of a better word. I think that is. Hard because that's. Totally. Counterintuitive to anything we've ever been taught or the or the way we were, you know, don't ever lie. I mean. That's the biggest thing when you're a kid, right? Don't don't blame it on your brother. If you did it, that kind of thing. Do you tell the truth? But I think that as soon as you see. An example. Of this. In action, it can kind of help you reframe. One of. The last, the very last visit that Mike's parents made to our house because they live about three hours away as well, I will never forget. And at the time, I didn't even. Process it in the way that I have now, she found out my sister, my mother in law, found out that her sister had passed away. She'd been sick. And that way it wasn't a huge surprise, but still it was. This was the news. And she came out of the bathroom. And I remember my father in law was on the phone talking to somebody and saying, oh, gosh, okay, thank you for letting us know about June, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My mother in law comes in and says, what happened to June? And my father and law had to say, well, we just got word that she did pass away. And you just saw my my mother law. How. You know, like that, like getting the news for the first time. Yeah, that was in the afternoon. The very next morning, she comes out of the bathroom or out of the bedroom, I think, with her phone, and she's looking at an email and she says. June died because she'd gotten an email. And that was as that was that was hearing it again for the first time. And once you hear that, you realize. If we had said again, well, yeah, we told you yesterday, June died right from from all. Intents and purposes, for her, that was the first time. Again, that's why when people will say. You know, have you seen Mom and Dad when my. Mother in law's asking about you? And have you seen Mom and Dad rather than. Say, well, they died. 40 years ago? No, I haven't seen them in a while. And that just that that is a that's the kind. Way to answer. And that feels really weird. And whether it's, you know, a lot of times she might think that Mike is. Her. Brother or a cousin or somebody else. And rather than correcting. And it's. Really hard, especially when it's your, you know, if you're been married to this person for 60 plus years and they're thinking that you're their. Dad. That's got to be really hard. But it's just changing the subject or. You know, you know. Where's the dog that died a long time ago, or where even the dog that we've had to take away over at the vet. Because of most a lot. Of the time, not always, but a lot of the time. You can change, you can appease and then change the subject, which can. Often just alleviate that. That that. Awful feeling. And again, especially in those morning situations of or that grief of finding out somebody passed away, if it's going to be like the first time, every time, once I heard that. I thought, yes, that's. What happened when Mike's mom was here and we didn't know enough at the time to realize, oh, that's not how to handle it. But obviously, you know, and I think the harder what's that old phrase? The more you, the more you know. The better you do or know. No more do better. Or sometimes I forget. We know better. You can do. When you know better. You do better. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's with dementia. That is certainly true. Yeah. I mean, I guess my mom had some memory issues. She wasn't like, but terrible, but she certainly couldn't remember who had died and who hadn't died. And so I learned that one time, you know, just by I forgot what I was talking about. She asked about one of her friends, and I said, oh, she died. And it was like she was getting the news for the first time. And I didn't really realize that. My mom didn't remember that. Yeah. And she sobbed. And I was like, okay, I'm not. And then she she asked me about it the next time and I was like, oh, she's fine. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen her in a while. Yeah. And and if it makes you feel better to not tell a boldface lie, you just say, well, you know, I haven't seen him in a while, which is true. Right? So. I mean, it'd have been better. I just flat out lied. I don't know what upset her, you know. Well, and I think. That's that's a great example of you have to just do what, what feels good for you because in many cases that might feel better and there's not a a right or. Wrong, you know what I mean? It's just it's just. A matter of what makes. You if that makes you feel so guilty, you know that. Oh, shoot, I can't believe I lied to. I feel I mean, right. But if it just made you feel like I'm just. I mean, I'm. Protecting her from the. Sadness. Then then then. That's great. Yeah, yeah, I think we just have to do it. Yeah, I think we just have. To figure out what makes it easier for us. To do it for. Them and just know that it's really. For them. Which, again. Feels so counterintuitive. Yeah. It's so hard. It's so hard to know what to do. I mean, I guess we're just all, you know, navigating this as best we can do. You have any other big takeaways or big lessons that you think that we should know about? Gosh, there's just so many. There's so. Many. I think that it's just that every. Journey is a little different. And just try to, you know. Don't compare because your situation may be a little bit different. You can certainly learn from each other. We can learn, we can share things that we've learned. And that's one of the things that I found so valuable about. The community we've. Built is that we can learn from each other. From your experience, I might get a nugget out of it that I can use. May not be the exact same situation, but I think it's also just knowing that we've. Never done this before. Yes, of course you. Don't know what to do. Of course you don't know all the resources. How would you how could you? Yeah. Give yourself a little bit of grace and know that there are places where you can find that community. You can find the. Information you need and just take it. One step at a. Time. Learn what you need to for that, for their case or their situation. And it's going to be different than. What another. Your other parent might need, you know what. I mean? And so there's this, you know, you approach it from different from different aspects. But I think that I think that it is it is just like with our kids, there's no perfect roadmap. There's no if you do this then you know, there's no guarantees. And so as we. Go, what can we learn from it. And one of. The again. I try to find humor, but the only benefit of dementia is that. If I. Fuss at my mom or I get impatient with her. Fortunately, she doesn't remember and that way I can, I can do, I get a do over so you get more. Do overs with that, which I. Think is. Probably the only gift of that. I have. Found, in dementia. But that, that is, that. Is something that I can do better than next time, and I can try to be a little more patient the next time and not, you know, either be annoyed or whatever. But I. Think it's just know. That you don't have to do this alone. There are people that can walk alongside you, whether you actually need help or a, you know, a service or something like that, or you just need other people around you. Because as I mentioned earlier, I feel like when we talk about it, we can help each other. And that's really what we're so passionate about doing is, you know, can we go into companies, can we help organizations? Because the more prepared we are, even though this is hard stuff to talk about. It doesn't make it. Doesn't keep my mom from falling and having a crisis in the middle of the night. But it sure. Helped me be a lot calmer. As I was on the phone with her for five hours until five in the morning, waiting for the to talk to the surgeon because I had all of that other stuff taken care of. What can we do that helps, you know, bring down the crisis level, if you will, and let's let's us focus just on the crisis at hand versus all the other things that, that, that that brings up at the same time. Yeah, that's really true. And then just being kind to yourself, like I said, the people who really take care of their parents, those people are angels. And I mean, they really are doing the hard stuff. And just to give yourself a lot of grace, I always, you know, after my mom died, I moved her like three months before she died. And I just often say, why did I move her like I didn't know she was going to die? But like, I spent all this money moving her and then she was in a play, you know, just blah, blah, blah, all the things. But I was like, I don't know, I just made the best decision I could at the time. And, you know, we have to all realize that. Yeah. And isn't that what we all. Have to do in every aspect of our life? It's true. Make the best decision with the information we have at hand at that time. Exactly. Yeah. So what is your best piece of advice for aging? Well, now that you've been around all this aging and parenting, aging parents just. In general, I think being prepared, what are the things that. We what conversations do we need to have with our own kids. And. And with our parents? If we haven't had those yet? So that'll make it a little bit easier. I think it's exercise, eating well, taking, you know, taking good care of your body and staying strong. I see that being such. A huge component and helping us all be able to age better. My mom played tennis until she was in her 70s and stayed pretty fed. I've seen a difference of her not being able to do that anymore. And it it's hard. Yeah it's hard. It's you know, if you've put on a lot of if you put on weight, if you aren't as strong it just makes everything harder. Yeah. Do you have this feels like a big shift here. But do you have, like a favorite health or beauty product that you personally like? You know, I, I'm just a Trier. I try so many different things. But I will tell you, the one thing that I've been using. Regularly right now. Is a tinted. Sunscreen that. I put on my I use. On my face when I go out before I go walking in the. Morning, but I also. Put on my hands every single. Day and it has. It actually has helped with some. Of the like, the age spots that I had on my hand that I was noticing on my hands, and it has made some of them go away, and it's keeping them from coming back. Yes, it's brand, is it? It's just it's. Just grocery store survey. It's just a tinted. And it's not it's. Designed for your face. But I just put it on my face before I walk. And then I put a little bit on. My hands because it's tinted. Because I. Like using the mineral. Sunscreen, but most of those are so white. And I'm it just, you know, it just you just cannot. Rub them in a. Well enough. And so this one is a mineral. Sunscreen, but it has just a little bit of intent. Yeah. So it's just yeah. Groceries you can get at the grocery store I'm trying to use more as much as I can. Say for better products. When I can. And so. This one I have actually researched completely, but, but, but I have found that it is helping because, yeah. They look good. Well, I got a, I got, I got, I got a good camera. Right. But and I probably have some of my hands. Still from walking earlier, but I think that, you know, because our hands show our age. And they're putting. Yeah. Sunblock on my hands a long time ago. I wish I had. Known sooner. There was a woman in a Bible study that I was in long time ago. And she had the. Most beautiful hands and she said and I asked her what her secret was and she's wore driving gloves. Oh hell yeah, I know that's that's what I was like. Okay, that's a little much. I don't know if I could remember to do that, but I can put I can slather a little sunscreen on the backs of my hands. Or I think, gloves. Yeah, but her hands looked like way. Younger than herself. Yeah. Wow. I bet. Yeah. And then another hard term. This just seems like a bunch of hard turns after that conversation, but I just, I like I like to ask everybody, what's your favorite concert you've ever been to? You know, I'm not a big concert person. Really. I'm not. I still remember my very first one, which was Rick Springfield. In Houston at the summit. And I remember seeing Kool in the gang at the rodeo. Houston. Rodeo. You know, a lot of people. Yeah. The rodeo. That's a lot of. Yes. I saw Casey in the Sunshine Band at the Houston Livestock. Yes. I remember seeing Phil Collins when I was in college in Dallas, and that was fantastic. And I love Amy Grant. We just saw her recently, so, but yeah, I'm not a big. I don't know, I'm not a. I'm not a big live music person. I like it, I just don't I don't think too I'd rather probably go to a musical. Oh, really? Well, what's your favorite musical? I think I guess I'd say wicked, and not just. Because it came out as a movie. I've seen it three times. In the theater. But I also love Lion King, too. It's a really good one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, those are two. I've seen that one multiple times too, so. Yeah. Oh, man. Welcome. Thank you. I hope that, everybody will at least go get the caregiver's key from parenting aging parents. You've really been helpful. There's a million more things, I guess because we could keep talking about. Oh, gosh. I mean, yeah, it's just like opening. Up a can of worms. There are so many topics and so many things to discuss. But yeah. Hopefully we gave people just a few tidbits that they can take home. Start getting prepared. That's so important. And just some, some language or things to think about too, as they're helping their parents or just, again, it's so much easier to have these conversations when they're hypothetical than when you're in crisis. And then just to know that you're not alone. Yeah. I mean, that I think was really that was very helpful to me. You know, when I really did think nobody understands what I'm going through. But yeah, there were plenty of people who were going through the same things. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Kim Barnes. You're welcome. It was my. Pleasure. Take care. Bye bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.