From “Stay” to Staying Curious: Tips from Lisa Loeb on Living a Lit-Up Life

Grammy-winning artist Lisa Loeb didn’t just define a generation with Stay (I Missed You), she gave us the ultimate sing-into-your-hairbrush anthem. And she’s still making waves (and catchy hooks). In this can’t-miss episode, Lisa joins Lauren Bernick for a conversation that’s equal parts nostalgia, laugh-out-loud moments, and fresh takes on reinvention.

Lisa dishes on how summer camp shaped her life, the behind-the-scenes magic of her breakthrough hit, and why she leapt into the world of children’s music. She talks about how she juggles creativity with self-care and her personal recipe for being ageless.

From the secrets of great sleep to intuitive eating, Lisa shares how she keeps her energy and curiosity wide awake. Plus, you’ll hear the best piece of advice she’s ever gotten (courtesy of her mom), her favorite collaborations, and how she’s living a “lit-up life.”

https://www.lisaloeb.com/

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Transcript

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Hi friend. My guest this week is the iconic Grammy winning musician Lisa Loeb, known for her cat eye glasses and her songs like stay. I Missed You and I do. She shares some of her excellent advice about how she stays ageless and she really, really is. And she's such a fun person. You're going to love this interview. If you listen regularly, you know that I reverse my heart disease. As in, I had heart disease and now I don't by following a whole food plant based diet. If you're ready to add more plant based meals to your life. Head over to my website. Well, elephant.com. After the show and grab my free cookbook. It's my gift to you. And if you're really ready to reverse disease like I did, check out my online class, Ace Plant Based Eating While You're There. I made this class with you in mind. Please subscribe to the podcast and The Age Like a Badass Mother YouTube channel so you never miss an episode. Thank you for being here. You mean the world to me. Now here's Lisa Loeb. Hi friend, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. From rebels and rule breakers to wellness warriors and wise women. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing, and we're not even close to finished. Welcome to age like a badass mother. She's a Grammy winning singer songwriter, Sirius XM radio host, and a trailblazing independent artist who made history with her number one hit, stay I Missed You. From award winning albums to acclaimed family music international tours to her own signature eyewear line, she continues to inspire audiences of all ages. I am so excited. God, I hope I don't poop my pants. Please welcome Lisa Loeb! Hello! How lovely intro. I know I am so professional. I just I really am very excited to talk to you. I feel like I say that with all my guests, but I really am with you. And you're in Texas. Well, probably not the. You're in Los Angeles, but you grew up in Texas, right? I did grow up mostly in Dallas, Texas. My dad is a doctor, was a doctor, and he was moving around for his training when I was born. So I was actually born in Maryland at the Naval Hospital. Oh. Excuse me. In 1968, in the naval hospital. That was, you know, where he was training? He was in the Navy. And then we moved to California, two different cities, and then back to Dallas. My mom's from Dallas. Like, we're many, many generations. Texas. My dad's from West Texas. So that's really where I grew up. Because I grew up in Houston. Oh, and, I'm in Austin now, actually. Oh, yeah, I know, I sound like I, I lived in New York until I was ten. That's why I sound like this. But, I'm kind of a New York voice, and I lived there for about ten years. Right after college. It seemed like forever. But now I've been in California for 25 years. I lived in New York during that time also. But I also lived in California when I was little. So California is the place I've lived most. It's very weird. I consider you a Texan, but. You do consider yourself a Texan. Did you, ever play music in Texas? Oh, yeah, I did. I mean, I played all through when I was a kid and in high school, and, and then when I was in college, I'd come back and play in Dallas. And then very, very soon after I graduated college, we were already doing all the big music festivals, both in New York and also in Texas at South by Southwest. So yeah. That started I'm we're the same as us were born in 68. Yeah. And I have a huge, eraser that. Oh my god. The Andy Warhol Museum the other day. God. But, but also I used to play music a lot in Texas because I went to summer camp outside of Austin, Texas. And you got a green family camp. I, I may have gone there once, but I went to two camp champions, mostly camp champions. And, and I played a lot of music. That was really where I really sunk in to kind of as my a friend alma doll showed me how to play some songs on guitar, and our counselor played, and it was just it made it something I wanted to do. You know, it was a way to be really social. Everybody gathered around and you play songs, we'd make up funny songs and skits. You know, it was this the early Saturday Night Live days and, so we like to, to be like them, and I and I just played a lot of music for fun, for performance, for Gathering Round. I even made a summer camp record called Camp Lisa based on these experiences. But I played a lot of music back then. So for people who don't know, you know, Lisa has these iconic cat eyed glasses and she has her own eyewear line. Lisa, what is it? Lisa Lillo. Eyewear. Eyewear. And it benefits your foundation so that you send kids to camp. Well, the Lisa Loeb eyewear doesn't. It doesn't. Lobero eyewear. Did I just make that up? Yeah. So Lisa Loeb, I was it's. Just making sense. And I know it's okay, but I do have I do have Camp Lisa Foundation to send kids to summer camp separately. And I do I do specific projects to benefit it. I sell coffee through a company called Coffee Fool. Coffee beans, a blend that I put together with them and that that all the proceeds go to send kids to summer camp. All the proceeds of the sales of my record camp. Lisa, go to the Camp Lisa Foundation. And then whenever I can, like when I was on Name That Tune, I won 60 or something like $60,000. Wow. And and, I work closely with an organization in New York called scope. Summer camp opportunities provide an edge because they found that kids who go to summer camp actually do better in school as well. And in life. I put together a show in New York years ago, and Camp Lisa came out and I tried to get a lot of adults, comedians, actors to do kind of a variety show about camp and about half the stories were about how they hated camp. Like Sarah Truman had a whole piece about God, how she hated camp. And she I feel like she wet the bed like that. Yeah. She did. She was in bed wetter and her. But her dad famously loved camp. He I just watched her, her special. And she was talking about, you know, her dad that she called Schlubby or everybody called him Schlubby. Like, he still had his same friends from camp, from when he was like a little kid till till the day he died. I mean, you make friends. Oh, yeah. We also made a musical called Camp Cap Awana that played Off-Broadway in New York and in, in Florida at the An Arsht Center. And it's something I'd love to get it on the road. It's a great story. A classic story about kids going to camp. And that's awesome. The two battling camps. The two battling camps. Okay, camp. What's it. Called? Camp Cabana. I got to get it on the road. I got to get find somebody who can help us get it on the road. I want to make a note to South. Good. One of my. Note to self. Make a note. Zillion notes. I, I know, that's me. Do you have, like, post-its everywhere? Oh my gosh, I just narrowed it down to these seven post-its. Oh my god. But I have post-its everywhere. I've post-its on everywhere. My door with all my kajillion dollar ideas. I thought, I even included it in a lyric in a song. That says it's called This Is My Life. Is the name of the song. Yes. I just was listening to. Yeah, on a post-it note that I forgot about and left behind. I just watched the video for that with with the Big Jenga, and it's a grass that's off. So that's off one of your latest albums. Right? Is this. Is the most recent grown up record called. Grown UPS and then the Right. To Happiness. And then your most recent family friend friendly album is With The Hollow Trees. That's what it's all about, right? Yeah. Okay. So if you have kids, check that out. Okay. So I want it for. Grown ups. Where you know what? That's true. It's actually that's what it's all about. Has a lot of songs. They're really relate. I think the older generation would especially appreciate it because it's all the old timey songs that my parents and grandparents played for me, things like Don't Fence Me In and, if I knew you were coming out a baked cake and we even did a special recording of the, Here Comes Peter Cottontail, that's like a bonus track, but there's all these, old timey songs that that I thought were kids songs when I was growing up. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I wasn't going to talk about this right away, but since we're kind of on that subject, I was looking at your, So. Well, first let me ask you, you want a Grammy for Feel What you feel, which was, I guess, a children's. Record. Kids record. And so I was listening to that, and I before I even listened to it, I was like, oh, my God, just the the name of it. Feel what you Feel reminds me of free to be you and me. Yes. So. And I went down that rabbit hole. I was like, wait, oh my God, I forgot about free to be you and me. Let me go. I want to go listen to some of those songs. So I started listening. Lisa, I started crying. Yeah. I was like, why am. I. Crying? Listening to me try to be. Yeah, yeah, I'm listening to Free to Be you and me. So I listen to that. I'm good. I'm like, why are you crying? I don't know, maybe it reminded me I was a little bit lonely. I was an only child. That that album was such like a savior for me. I'd just be listening and dancing around my living room and, you know, then I thought, wow, Lisa is like, you know, like this generation's Marlo Thomas bringing this. I started listening to your album, Feel What You Feel. And of course, you know what I'm going to say? I think, you're crying. You had wrote, well, you had the remake of the Rosie Greer, It's All Right to Cry. And I was like, oh my God, with Craig Robinson. Yes, I was dying watching that video. It was so good. You guys have to watch this. First of all, I mean, Bravo, because this is such a good album. You deserve the Grammy for it. But did is was that your inspiration. Was you know, it was funny because, I made, my first children's record was called Catch the Moon, and I made it with my freshman roommate from college at Brown. We had a group, we had a band together for like six years, and she went off to become a really well known children's artist. And she makes beautiful children's music. So when I had the opportunity to do an album that was different from like my grown up records, I wanted to do a kids record. I was really inspired by really Rosie the Carole King children's Record and Free to Be You and Me. The record we made was not a record like that, but it was a beautiful kids record called Catch the Moon. Then the next one I did, I wasn't sure I was going to make more kids music, but I ended up making, I ended up making, Camp Lisa because again, that was like music from my childhood, and I wanted to share it. And it's really, again, all ages. And I didn't make kids music at the time because I had kids. I had no kids. I was just I'm a very nostalgic person. I love my, I love I liked my childhood, I loved especially my younger childhood, and I wanted to live in there and make music like the stuff that I was listening to. So I made Camp Lisa, which also has a very if you listen to it, the production is is it just feels like, like an old episode of Sesame Street or Zoom, where there's different segments and different things sound more in the room and different things are more produced. But it sounds like that 70s music. And then I went on to do, a record that was I finally had kids and realized that they liked nursery rhymes when I played them in concert live. That's what they knew as the ABCs and and Amazon asked me to make a record. So I made a record that was all of the I like 35 nursery rhymes I made. My next record is Feel What You Feel, and I really was trying to get that, that free to be you and me, you know, trying to figure out what stories do I want to tell and bring different people into the project. And one of the people I had met years ago and had been meaning to work with them forever was Craig Robinson, who you mentioned, who you know from The Office, and he's in TV and. Everything. And tons of shows and everything. And, and we were we were friendly. And so I asked him to sing on a song called Feel What You Feel, which is this is fun and funny, but it it's a great song. And I thought this would make a great companion piece to It's Alright to Cry. And then I can literally bring back, you know, I can literally bring back the record that we all listened to growing up, and Craig was the perfect person to sing it because he's got this warm, beautiful voice. And I had no, we got to sing it together. He also plays piano and yes. And so it made a great companion piece and we literally got to include it in, in our record. Yeah. I was really surprised to see him playing piano and singing. I had no idea. I mean, you guys know him from like, every single comedy that's ever been. And, you I think you nailed it, Lisa. I mean, I was just thinking, like, somebody is going to be crying 40 years from now or 50 years from now talking to somebody else about Lisa, this album, feel your feelings. I mean, you you really did deserve to win a Grammy for that. Oh, my God, I just remembered I made two other albums before I made the nursery, before I made the nursery rhyme, I made. What do you mean. You? Books that came with albums for Barnes and Noble once called The Disappointing Pancake. It's a silly singalong book, which is also sort of summer campy. And another one was called Movin and Shakin, which is a collection of songs. Oh my gosh, I love those records. You can find all of all of the music from those records, wherever you find music. And then I made three records for Amazon, and then I made this most recent record. Gosh, I made a lot of kids records. You've made a lot of kids records. I used to love those single, like the books with the records. Yes. And that's what we wanted to do was CDs. It was an interesting time. It wasn't the perfect time to put that out. It'd be great to do it now. Where you just scan a code. And write, you know? But I used to love that. That was another to me. I should put it out where we do it again. But you scan the code. See, I'm thinking I'm. Putting make another post-it note. I know, rerelease books. And rerelease books with. Oh my gosh, I'm glad. I'm glad we could be of service. Okay, I want to talk about because this is one thing that I loved so much. Was your show number one single with your mom? I think I wrote to you that I don't remember if it was a bride or a baby. So for people who don't have, it was a. Baby. I think we had both. A bride and a baby. But it was your mom. I don't even know you like your mom and sister trying to help you find a maid. This is the early 2000, right? Yeah, a reality show. And I remember it was like a bride or a baby. And your mom's like, Lisa, look, look. And you're like, what? What do you want me to do, steal her? Yeah, I know it's it's a typical, you know, some some moms love to nudge you to, like, when are you to get married, when you to have kids. You're like, I know I'm trying. Like what? What do you want? I did end up getting married in my 40s when I was 40, and then having my kids in my 40s. But I did have a reality show called Number One single. Very clever title that. Yes. My friend Gary came up with some of these and maybe. But he was one of the producers. But we had a great team of producers. I worked closely with them. I had had a TV show on the Food Network with Dweezil Zappa, who I was dating at the time, and it was it was a reality based show, but really we worked with chefs and and different people and restaurants and all these things to show it was kind of like reality show meets cooking show. And it was a little rough because we were the producers, but sometimes the some of the other producers might go to the network and present the edits before we had a chance to, to go through them. And, and both Dweezil and I were very detail oriented. Yeah. Because that was a little bit strange. You know, I might appear in a in an episode of, of, the Food Network show being like, oh, an egg. What's this? You know, it was way they. So for this other show, when we did this, reality show, I was like, I'll do it, but I really am a producer, and I really need to see the edits and approve them before they're passed along. So we had wonderful editors, a great production team, so that we could put our heads together and tell a story that felt kind of sex and the city. My sister was one of the main people in it, and she sort of was this a certain, part of herself on camera? My friend Stephanie was there. We were like, pal around my ex-boyfriend Juan, who I'm still good friends with and I work with a lot. He was one of the voices of reason. My mom, and we wanted to present stories of people like me in my 30s, feeling like I want to get married was not a game show. There was no promise that I was going to find the guy, but we definitely set it up so that I might date somebody who was too Jewish. Like, I'm Jewish, he was too Jewish, or somebody who's like, oh, wow, this guy has a good job. But maybe he's got a good job or he's got a lot of money, but he's not the right guy. You know, he's I don't like the way he doesn't behave very well with his fancy wealth. And so we we, we set up situations and really tried to edit it and put it together so that we could tell a story of how it feels to be someone who's looking for a partner in life. And that's what we did, and I'm glad it resonated. And it was a lot of work. So fun as a short run. It was a lot, a lot of work. Sure. I don't know. It was hilarious. Or a lot of work. Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine, but, Well, let's go back. We kind of skipped over your actual number one single. And you are. Okay, I might phrase this wrong. I think you were, like, one of the only, people who had a number one hit single without having a record deal because it was in the movie Reality Bites. Is that. Yes. Yes, I was an independent artist, and, I had a great attorney and a and we held on to the rights of, of the song stay. I missed you, but we licensed it to, to RCA and the song did go up the charts and, and hit number one with the help of the RCA radio representatives who I'm still friendly with today. But it did. It did get it. I feel like a radio station in Houston. Yeah. Hey, our reality started. Playing the same number 104. Kirby. Yeah. Kirby. And that's because they filmed Reality Bites in Houston. I have a little over it. And now actually, Kirby, who is that? The DJ who played it. And Tom Poleman Tom is like the head of iHeart Radio and Cubbies up in New York, also with a very prominent DJ. He's a very prominent DJ and the what are the biggest stations in the country? And they were just amazing choosing that song of the of the soundtrack to play. And I went down there. I just found a photo the other day of one of the radio promos I did, where they flew us to Houston Road in a limousine. And we early in the morning, we, we got to go to this radio winner's house, this woman named Norma at like, seven in the morning to play at her house. One of the upstairs bedrooms was my like was my backstage room. People brought suitcases of beer. They had a big banner. It was early, but it was amazing. It was in Houston. So funny. Well, did, did you did you know Ethan Hawke before that? Is that how your your song was in the movie? We were like. Cut into the movie. Yeah, I, I, I met Ethan through some different actor friends I knew from college who had been in a movie with him. They, my friend Josh Hamilton had been in the movie alive with Ethan. So there was just a big group of actors and musicians and playwrights and artistic people who all hung out together. Ethan started a theater company, which I was involved in. I made music for them, for some of their plays. We all supported each other a lot. And, and so along the way, I've been hearing more pieces come out. I think of it as a story that the song got under the soundtrack in a certain way. But I was talking to my friend Amy, who used to manage Ethan's theater company, who told me the other day when I was visiting her in Georgia, she said that, gosh, how did it come about? It along the way, I feel like I thought that I had already submitted a tape of my music because Ethan asked me for some music, but Ethan had actually asked me to write a song for his character in the movie. But a lot of people were asked to write that song. And Dave Perna from Soul Asylum, his song, got in the movie as Ethan's character's move, that song that he plays with his band. But then I was sort of on the radar, and Ben Stiller and Stacy Cher and a bunch of people who were involved in making the movie came to see me play at the wetlands because they were supposed to be meeting with U2 in Ireland, but that got canceled. And then they came to see me play, and then they I thought they already had my music, but I think after they saw me play, they asked for my music. But then I also. Anyway, it's a long story, but Ethan passed the music along to them and they decided to put the song in the movie. And Ron Pfeiffer from RCA records decided to put it on the soundtrack. And, so that was very exciting. That is, I mean, I remember when they were. Filming, like we were talking about earlier, like I was already like, you know, I'd been in a band for years and all through college. Yeah, nine stories. Record companies were interested and it was getting closer and closer. And, and then this opportunity happened and it really pushed it over the edge. Yeah. It was what? Where where were you when you found out that you had a number one hit single song? Do you remember? Oh, my gosh, I was probably in my apartment in New York City on Christopher Street right now. That was not where I lived with Ethan, but it was probably with my boyfriend at the time, Juan Patino, who was also my co-producer. We made these records together and we made my first few records together. Now he does a lot of the photography. A lot of my promotional photography, photography on the cover of albums. But so I was probably with Juan because we had this great system, this guy, Skip Bishop, who I mentioned that the head of radio promotion at RCA, he was the greatest guy. He still is. I'm still friends with him, and he would call every week. You know, I feel like it was Tuesdays. There was one day a week he'd be like, Lisa, the song is going up the charts. It's going to be number eight this week. Or, you know, it started and each week we would check in with them. And so that's where we found out, he told us just going to number one. Oh that's so exciting. And you said that you lived with Ethan, but you met in the same apartment building right near each. I lived across the street. Not when you were living with Ethan, I lived. Yeah, well, I remember when. So I lived in Houston at the time. Like I said, we're the same age. So what were we, about 25 at this time? Yeah, 25. And, I remember I was in such a odd profession at the time. I worked at a dating service when I was in college. This is pre-Internet, of course. And then I bought this singles magazine. From the what is a dating service? Right. It's exactly. It's like you make a video and you have a little bio that goes in a folder and people come in because remember, there used to not be internet, so you'd have to go to a place, look through the binder, pick somebody out, go watch their video, then, you know, choose them. They had to choose you back. It was just very arcane. Well, you know, I mean, I guess that's what you did. It was like. Analog version of what you do now. Exactly. And so they bought a singles magazine and I ended up buying it from them. And somebody was scouting the area in Houston, and they called me and they said, can we use your singles magazine in this movie Reality Bites with, you know, we just want to have it on the coffee table. And I was like, yeah, of course, sure. And later I started do I, I was oh, no, actually earlier, I think I was about 20 years old. I was doing, sketch comedy at the Comedy Workshop in Houston, and Janine Gruffalo was doing standup comedy and she became my friend there. And so, like, I had this little tight because she was in that movie to Winona Ryder and Ben Stiller. Would you, like, go to the set or get to like. No, like I knew I wasn't really friends with her anymore by that point. You know, I was. Friendly with her on the comedy scene. That's right. And, so when that movie came out, of course I couldn't wait to see it, to see if my magazine was in there, which I never saw it, but also I just was like, oh my God, this movie is hysterical. It was so. It was so of the moment of that time, you know, it really was, And so what? So when you found out, what did you do that you had to number one single what it did. You did I ask you, did you go out and did you celebrate what you do? I think we were just, like, enmeshed in the in serious promotion mode. When the song was going up the charts, I was playing radio festivals. I was traveling around the country, you know, I was traveling around the country going to visit, going to visit radio stations, going in and playing my song. You do that thing, you go everywhere. And that's what I was doing. I don't know. And it's funny, I don't know if it was before this or after this. At some point, some therapist said to me, you need punctuation. And I was like, yes, you know, I there was no never a period on the end of a sentence or an exclamation point. It was like, and now what's next? And now what's next? Okay. Yeah, I did that and now what's next? So you didn't celebrate that and take. I must have celebrate it in some way. Because that being said again, one of my boyfriend at the time who co-produced the song and the record, he was very, like, I am very nostalgic. He was the youngest of eight kids. His family comes from Columbia. Very romantic. Not just like, like love romantic, but romantic. Like we must celebrate. You know, he's he's a New Yorker. Really? A new guy from new Jersey, but his family was from Columbia. But there's this very. It's important to take take, you know, celebrate the time and make a toast and take a picture. And so I'm sure we did because of him. Yeah. For me, I'm always like, okay, you know, I'm very businesslike. And yeah, he had to explain to me at that time that to get off the phone, you can't just say like, okay, great, thanks. But, you know, you have to be like, well, it was great to talk to you. I know you're really busy and. Well. Yeah, well, you're busier than I am. Why don't you get off the phone like there was a whole, like, softer way to do things, and, so, so we probably did celebrate in that way, and I've since then, you know, I try to have punctuation. To do celebrate when you won a Grammy. Yes. What did you set up for that? Because, yeah, I win a Grammy. And we were in the pre televised part, which is where the majority of the Grammys are given out. We went to the Grammys and then there are parties and we got to celebrate with parties. And then so it was all built in. Yeah. I'm trying to remember and again, my memory, I know I can somebody can show me. I say somebody can write a comment when this is posted, saying like, don't you remember? We had a party for you at a place and. Right, you know, so that may have happened, but I just I feel like the big celebration was you. You have these big photo shoots backstage, and you meet you meet you see Tony Bennett and Reba mcEntire, and, you know, you're going around meeting all these folks and and talking to them, and you're part of that. You're in the parties and you're wearing the fabulous dress, and it's, a really glamorous thing. And leading up to it was a lot of parties and events as well. Yeah. So I feel like it was just a celebratory. So you did? Yeah, I think so. That's good. So are you not a big celebrator. Or am I. Just because you wrote a book about it? Right. You wrote you co-wrote a movie. I'm a big cherry bomb. Yeah. Oh, try to be. The I was, I was interviewed in that. Book. Oh, okay. I thought you co-wrote that. How to Be the Perfect Hostess. So I was like, I thought you were like a big celebrator. No, I, I, I need to be reminded to celebrate. I'm a person who comes home from a big event. I. If the Grammys were in LA that year, I probably would have come home and in my dress and loaded the dishwasher with my lashes on like, that's okay. That would have been me too. Like, I'm feeding the cat. I'm trying to remember if there's any videos I need to make to advertise something I was supposed to do while I have my makeup on, right? I'm, that's. You got slow down, slow. I know I am. That's part of that's part of what I do do. That's what you do. You're trying to slow down you ish. Not not slow down. But you, like, take advantage of the elastic nature of time. What does that mean? Like, you know. So enjoy it. Yeah. Or just, as much as we tell our kids, like, you know, when kids are dysregulated, You're supposed to take a break. So I do that a lot. I let myself sit and do a crossword. I try to remember. Oh, yeah, I was working a lot this weekend. I should spend some time sitting around. Okay. That's good. You know, take a breath. All the stuff I do, all the things and I walk out. You do smell the flowers. I meet up with friends. I try to more and more because. So you seem. You seem like you do that. That because you have a, you know, even though you're talking about your I wouldn't say frenetic pace, but your fast paced life, you know, you have you have a lot going on. You do seem like the kind of person that has the energy of somebody who stops and meditates and does things, you know, with intention. So I know you do. I think you do more. But you mentioned crossword puzzle and one of the things when I was researching you that I thought was so fascinating was that you collaborated to do, like, an original New York Times crossword puzzle. You contributed the puzzle. Yes. I got to help. I was this is a that's crazy, amazing time. I got an email from Will shortz, who's the editor of the New York Times crossword puzzle section. That's like a huge rock star in my world. And he emailed me asking if I would collaborate on a puzzle. And I was like, immediately said yes. And so he paired me up with Doug Peterson. And Doug is a professional crossword writer. He he does all the crosswords when they had I don't know if they still have it, but on the, Southwest Airlines magazine, he did all those crossword. Yes, they do. In the New York Times. And and so we sat at my kitchen table. It was like writing a song. And we got to work together and I got to write a crossword, and I got to meet Will shortz. He came to my show, and Deb Amlin, who writes the crossword column in The New York Times, came to my show. And I just was like, wow, this is like a series that's a past. Damn. Sorry. Mazing. So, Oh my God. Well, okay. Taking a sharp, switch here, but we didn't talk. We didn't talk about your husband. How you met him? Ruth. Is it really Rosie? How do you meet him? He actually was looking for a host for a TV show he was trying to create. He was working with Conan O'Brien at the time. And through our attorneys. And also this gal I was working with who's like, a brand. So we meant connected to, I know, connected us because he was looking for a host for this, Food Network type of show that he had created. And I had hosted it, Food Network, a show I had just finished doing my reality show a couple of or maybe a year or two earlier and about dating and, he hadn't seen that, but we met up to talk about his show, and I watched his pitch, his pitch reel or whatever on a DVD. And I thought, well, he's he's funny and he's cute. I also thought at the time they said he was a writer for Conan O'Brien. So I was like, what? Like, that's a really funny show and really clever. Turns out he wasn't a writer for Conan O'Brien. He worked in production there, but he still was very funny and clever. And so I met up with him and then non dates turned into dates, and then we ended up getting married. And he's younger than you, right. Younger than I am. Yes. How much younger? Ten years. A little over like he's ten years and a couple months older than me. I mean younger than me. Oh, that's so good, Lisa. Good for you. It just that's the way. That's how it worked out. And how old are your kids? My son just turned 13, and my daughter just turned, 15.5. He's 15. Wow. That's crazy. It's crazy that you have kids that age because like I said, we're the same age. I have, like a 32 year old, a 31 year old. I've got like a 35 year old album and a 30. I've got like a 20. Some, like, I've got a million albums of all ages starting from 1990, you know. That's right. Yeah. That's what you were doing. That's unbelievable. I think that's cool that you have kids that age, though. It does. It kind of keeps you young, I think. I mean, yes, it can. It gives you perspective. I think when you're an older parent it gives you perspective. And it also really I've, I've often felt kind of ageless in a way. Although I still am also very aware of age. I'm such an intelligent person that I'm aware of, like, oh, that person had one of those leather purses that was like, lace up the side and embossed and painted. Yeah. You know, that person used to listen to this music or use this hairspray and a water bottle. I know I was cracking her water bottle. For those of you who are just listening, it is an Aqua Aqua net. It can exactly like an aqueduct. It's I had to have her, but like so I'm very tied to age and and what it means in the nostalgic sense, like where you're from and what you were doing and what was popular at the time or unpopular at the time. Yes. When it comes to my own age, I feel always sort of ageless. That being said, I've been I do think about age, especially lately as I'm getting older, because I realize that I don't have forever. And as young as I feel, I'm like, oh, wait a minute. Some people at this age, they slow down in their work or they do these girlfriend trips or they, you know, I don't know how to spend their time differently. And I and I realize, oh, wait a minute, if those are things I want to do, I need to get to doing them. Yeah. You I mean, you really are ageless. You honestly look exactly the same as you did 30 years ago. Honestly. I mean, you do and what? So. But thank. You. What what what do you attribute that to? Your age. Just as well. It's funny, I think clean living. And also, it's funny I found this on my desk. This is, like, the worst, the ugliest post-it note I could have ever seen, but. And you can't read it because it's coming up backwards. But I, I try to come up with a little phrase and it kind of says it. Well, it's mellows like these things will mellow me out if I move. I love exercising, I just do, I've been doing street light strength training, not like the, but like the light strength training. Usually about twice a week. I do it with a trainer or I do it on my own. I've learned so many things about my body stretching, undoing some of the stuff I did when I was working out incorrectly. Like always looking for great people to help me understand how to work out for my body. Challenging myself at my own, you know, challenging myself. But but regularly. I take tons of walks. I love walking, so move, eat well, and I do eat well, which for me, I spent a lot of time on food and eating. Like a lot of people from our generation, there was a lot of dieting and oh yeah, and. Snack. Stuff. Oh my, it's low fat and blah blah blah. But like, I've spent a lot of time undoing the dieting mentality. Although I do take a little bit of advantage of what I learned through Weight Watchers and other things where I learned about nutrition, where I do on the side of, I do intuitive eating, which I've worked with a few different people. I literally spent a year learning about being hungry and learning about being full and just eating. What I like, stopping when I'm full if I don't really know what I feel like eating, or there's not something that I'm supposed to be eating in front of me that everybody's eating, I on the side of something that's like, on paper, healthy, you know, some salmon, some. But I do like that food too. But I eat what I like and I find that I'm fuller because of it. A piece of pizza and some broccoli. I don't know, some fried shrimp and some steamed rice because I have high cholesterol. Or can I do try to take some of the medical advice in mind? You know, less fried food. My brain is getting fuzzy. I really want to know about sugar and the brain. My doctors say don't worry about it, I don't. But anyway, like I but generally I eat well. I eat a lot of times, like, especially when I go to Texas, they're like, why are you eating the garnish at the burrito place underneath the salsas? I'm like, it's how you know, kills me. I eat a lot of vegetables and I drink a lot of water. I don't drink very much alcohol. It doesn't always agree with me. Like it just makes me tired and drink coffee. But anyway, I eat well. Love. I try to do things I love my pets, my kids, my family, do things that I love, be with my friends. You know, it's find that love. Learn. I love learning and reading and, I try to find that balance, which I'm never finding exactly on the internet. The the rabbit hole of, like, learning and exploring versus, oh, my gosh, I've been sitting here for an hour and, I'm going to be in Brazil getting a facelift next week. No, I'm just kidding. But like, you know, those rabbit holes, you end up dead. Yes. But I love reading and listening to podcasts and learning, I love organized, I need to stay organized. I, I it's a process. You know, you things build up, you realize, oh I got to go through this. But staying on top of things, I get I can get really, antsy if I realize I missed an opportunity or I forgot to write something down, or I forgot to look at what I wrote down or, like I'm trying to start a certain business, but I forgot to look at my own. I'm going to say this. This makes me all but you know, my own Rolodex. I forget to look at my own look at like, the people I already know to, like, collaborate. So being organized is really important for finance, for ideas, for for me, for my peace of mind. Yeah. Clothing. Knowing what clothing you have, what products you have. Anyway, being organized, working and writing are really important to me. I love working, I do. I do, and. I love writing. I don't love writing, I, I need to write. And that's it's almost a separate category because there's the journaling or you need to digest for me, and also writing creates the raw materials to actually make music or come up with other ideas or figure out situations in my life. So working in writing and then sleep, sleep, sleep sleep, sleep is the number one priority above everything. Trying to get eight hours of sleep. It's become more difficult, you know, with, with age, menopause, stress, whatever. But that's always being introspective and looking at our lives and figuring out how can I do these things better. But sleep is number one. You don't sleep enough, you can't think straight. You get sick, you look tired. You're not yourself. You can't sleep, sleep, and then family, you know, like sleep is the most important thing. Melody, family and everything else. Yep. Lisa, that's so good. I love your EQ. What is it called? An acronym. Yeah, I don't know. I just was like, I need to be able to touch base with it to remember to, like, when I long time ago, I met a guy who came to. He was at an event I played, I think it was at the University of Judaism, actually was playing a concert with another guy named Gabriel. Man, who's a great composer and writer. But anyway, I was doing this thing, and afterward I was signing autographs and, somebody came up and it turns out they were a professional speechwriter. And one of the people that they work with was Tony Robbins. And he said, I'll get you some Tony Robbins CDs. And I'm like, I don't want to be brainwashed. I don't like that stuff. I do love of self-help and, you know, hypnosis tapes. Yep. Just, you know, stop you from overeating and all that stuff. Right. But anyway, I was like, okay, fine, you can send him to me. And I listened to his DVDs and his CDs, and they actually were not brainwashing. Now, I listened. To the opportunity to think for yourself how to balance your life and through Tony Robbins and it and a number of other a million other things, I realized you can categorize your life in different ways, and you kind of need this balance, and it changes a lot. But knowing what you need, I think is a great place to start. And he he he divides it up into like, health. And, I don't remember what his divisions are. Finance. And I, I don't remember, but knowing like there are all these pieces and you want to get them all, you want to be aware of them. I think that's smart. So movement eating love. What was learning. Learning organized. Organized like main work organization. Eating. Right. Sleep, sleep I think those are good. Do you do you write every day? I don't, that's one of my goals. And so lately I have been whether it's on my phone making notes of, I've been really working on songwriting, it's how do you want to do form a song? That's how do you what's your process? That's what. I'm figuring. Does it just come to you? Sometimes it's that's the thing. It comes to me. That's the best comes. Yeah. I have notes everywhere with little lyrics or melodies that I've recorded on my phone, but I'm trying to do more writing where I sit down and I make myself do it, and it can be bad and you and just make myself do it because I'm not a 19 year old or 16 year old, or a 12 year old, or a 25 year old with all the time in the world. I'm a businesswoman and I'm a mom, and I'm, person who's also trying to enjoy life and and do fun things. And so I need to be able to manage my time. I need to be able to sit down and write, just like I work out, just like I make a meal and I'm creative with that. I need to be able to sit down and just do it. So. The best is when it just comes pouring out of you. It's just, I mean, I obviously don't write songs, but I write and, you know, when it just comes, it's like, did you ever read, Elizabeth Gilbert Big Magic? I did not. She talks about write it on a post-it note. I'm writing it right now. You will actually really like this book. It's very much about what we're just talking about. Like when the when the thought is just like, downloaded to. It's almost a gift. I love that was. Was that, That's good. But I have to say it stumps me as well. And that's what I'm dealing with now. It's not writer's block, but it feels almost like writer's block because you get the great idea. And then what? And and I have a lot of. And then what I have a I have like 100 amazing song ideas on my phone. It's not a song though, unless it's finished. It's not a song. So there's something in enjoying the, you know, understanding the process and becoming one with the process and understanding that it's a process for me, it's a process. It could take 20 years to write a song. It could take an hour to write a song or 20 minutes or 5 minutes. But you have for me the homework part where I take the raw ideas that just came to me, or the, halfway done song with some crafting. You have to finish the song. Yeah. And that's what I'm working on, I do. I worked with a woman named Natalie Goldberg, who you might know, she has a book called Writing Down the Bones, and she's written many, many books. But my friend Liz, who I made the kids record with, who was my freshman roommate, gave me the book. What's it called? Writing Down the. Bones. Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg. She also has it. One of her first books is called Wild Mind, and it's really about the Zen. She says she's she was Jewish and became a Zen Buddhist monk as well, like a Zen Buddhist. But she's all about writing pen on page, just writing. And and she actually worked with, the folks who wrote artists way. The artist way. Oh, yeah. Julia Cameron. Yeah. So she's, she's one of the writers in writing and free writing, and it's exactly the kind of writing we did not do growing up. We did writing that was like, what it trying to fill in the blank of what you're supposed to say, right? That does not a good song. Make right and write that. And so learning after college how to like get those juices flowing. If you are a professional and you want to do it, you can actually there's all these different exercises you can do for writing or literally just setting a timer for five minutes and just. Yeah, could you do. Writing? With real pen and real paper? That's what you're. Saying? Yeah. For me, a real pen and paper. But you can do it. You can talk it, you can type it. Whatever. Okay. But I just think it's something I want to be better at. I want to just be able to. It's just a goal of mine is something I've done a million times. And it's my profession. And it's like, you're doing okay. Always. I'm always I'm excited. It's a big goal of mine to to just just get into it more because often to when you're a professional musician, your life becomes really busy with social media. And I love going on tour and playing concerts. And honestly, people are happy hearing just the old songs and I get that. I go see concerts. I'm like, I don't even know what the song is. Play the one from 1975, right? You know, you want to hear the old ones, but as an artist, I need to make the new ones. I understand that, I get that, you know. Yeah, it's. And I think that that you're just a person who's growing and still finding yourself. I mean, not finding yourself, but. Yeah. You want to make something. You're an artist. I get that. It's both. You're doing both? Yeah. Found yourself. You're good. It's good. What else can I do and be. And how can I do it? What else can I do? Amazing. So. And you also have this fun Sirius XM show. Is it called Where are They now? Yeah, I have a daily radio show on Sirius XM 99 called stay with Lisa Loeb IV and I, and I do like and they play an hour that I host three times a day. But I also created a couple things. One is your story, your song, which is my take on a request like, you get to call because so many people tell me their own stories about my song Stay and why it's important to them. And I love hearing people's stories about the songs that they love. So we've created something where people can send a note or record their own voice, you know, just on their phone and send that end to 99 at Sirius xm.com. But then I also created a segment, called Where They Are Now. Years ago, I was interviewed for the Oprah Channel for a TV show, and I was so excited because I love Oprah and who I loved. I know she's she just really. She's like. Oh, and a number of other people. But I love how people share their stories and they're vulnerable, as vulnerable as they can be. And that really connects people. So anyway, I was happy to be interviewed for her channel and it turned out that they were they came and lit my house. Beautiful lighting and interview. They also interviewed other people for the same show, like, Isaac Mizrahi, I believe, and I'm not sure who else, but we're all working on different things. And then after the fact, I found out the name of the show was called Where Are They now? Where where are they now? And to me, that was like a Spinal Tap moment where the band is sitting around the old timey, the radio. They're playing their old songs, and the deejays are like, are they still alive? You know, it was like it wasn't. I was like, I tried it. I was like, you know, you should change the name of the show to where they are now. That is. And it's got. This really. Retro feeling of, of a nod to knowing, yes, you may know me from a certain era. You may think I'm from the 90s, but I'm still doing things today. And there's so many people out there, all these artists and writers and, actors and icons from the 90s. And so I get to be the person sitting next to them on the airplane, talking to them about their new projects and how the 90s is different than today. And with a kind, understanding point of view. Not not the gal at the at the front desk, when you check into the American Airlines lounge who's like, didn't you used to be a singer? Didn't you used to be somebody? Didn't you used to be somebody? Did she used to be a singer. You're like, yeah, that's why my name's on that theater across the street. I'm playing a big concert there, or that's why I'm at the airport. I'm actually flying to concerts. Yes, I still that's not what you say when you see someone. You're like, oh my gosh, I'm a fan. Oh my gosh, what do you focus? You know what's what? What should we say. What's your what's your Instagram. You can say, oh are you on. You're on Instagram right I got to I got to check out what you've been doing. I'm such a big fan. Not. Didn't you used to be I'm not a big fan, but my husband is. Are you? Are you able said that? I didn't know you're still around. Oh, yeah. People say all kinds of stuff. You're like, yeah, so I get a guitar on my back. But. So it's nice to be the person saying, like, you have a new album, let's play a song on the radio with, yeah, you know, you've got a book out. Let's talk about that. You've got a, you've got a, charitable organization. Let's talk about that. And also 99 is great because people really do care. You know, people love these artists and they want to know what they're up to. You. Who have you interviewed that you just loved? Weird Al Yankovic? Leann Rimes? Oh my gosh, so many people. I just did an interview with both John Popper from Blues Traveler and Robin from Gin Blossoms at the same time. Those were two. So. Oh, yeah, they're on tour together. I mean, I've interviewed so many people, and it's just you. I get to hear about people's lives, what's important to them, what they're making now, what they used to do, what their relationship is with their their, you know, older work. And as a mom, as a and as a producer, as a songwriter, as a touring performer, as a fellow Lilith Fair performer, as a as a musician, we have so much to talk about. So it's that's the thing that probably just makes it a little different than maybe other people who do interviews. Yeah, that's I bet you come with such a an angle, not an angle, but just an understanding of, you know, all those things that you just mentioned. I'm sure that makes you such a good interviewer. It's just also very serious, but also funny, you know, like, yeah, the musicians tend to be very serious, but also, they're funny. So to be able to have, you know, laughter and seriousness on the interview, it's good. And you have a new album. Do we talk about this? A simple trick to. A simple trick to happiness. We talked about that a little bit. Yeah, a grown up album. And I came up with it as a grown up. It really it's a songs about life and it's songs that you can take with you throughout the day. And I wanted songs like that, songs that remind you that, you know, don't let the small things get in your way. But also another song might be about how you all the small things or what make up your life, and it's just appreciate them because, you know, as a hello Kitty lover, I'm like, you know, all the little things, the pens that smell like coffee and the stuffed animals and the fan that I got from Spain when I was a kid, like all these things, you know, things around me. But anyway, it's it's about life lessons, but for grown ups, but not hit you over the head. But I think. People. People it's. And I'm very lucky because when I'm signing autographs after my shows, often people had enjoyed the new songs as much as they enjoyed the old I. Think so. Which is really nice and I appreciate. Yeah, I've really enjoyed all the music that I've listened to. Just in getting familiar with it for this interview and I'm like, wow, because I had that whole same thing of like, I loved, I do and I loved Stay and Listen and. You might know from the radio and then what else? You know, you life is how much time do you have? But yeah, but you've made a million songs and they're all really good. You're you are a prolific songwriter. An artist. Honestly. What's your favorite concert you've ever been to? Yeah, that's a hard, Hard, right. Well, I went to Live Aid in the 80s. Are you. Clinton? That was amazing. I did go see Diana Ross the other night, and she was amazing. She was amazing. And I love her song so much. I love the old stuff. I love the disco stuff. She played new songs that she wrote with her daughter Rhonda and great. It was great and it was sparkly and it was beautiful and it was just you didn't even notice the time going by. Yeah. Some concerts. You're looking at your watch like, should we leave now? Is it time to get our car from parking? I don't want to get. I don't want to. Try raising, but, going to Live Aid was unbelievable. Unbelievable. I mean, I got to see Bowie. I got to see who I'm a huge fan of. A lifelong fan of Bowie. Yeah. You did a tribute to him? Yeah, I covered one about I. I love covering Bowie songs. Paul Young, Elton John, who I'd seen in the 70s, which was an amazing concert, but Elton John, Elton John with Kiki De oh, the John with George Michael, Queen. I mean, we've seen it all. We've seen I was there, I thought I was crazy, Lisa. I was setting theater. And when in high school and I'm a huge music fan and I had, I was playing music and writing music in my dorm room at theater school, and I was like, guys, we got to go see this concert. And we got on the tube and we bought tickets on the street, and we went in and we saw all these bands and I mean the energy and the quality and the excitement and I mean. That's I that's the best answer I've ever gotten. I mean, nobody else has said they've been at Live Aid. That's insane. They're doing a whole like retro spectrum on it now, I guess. You know, because. It's it's an anniversary. Yeah. What is it like 30, 30. Five, 1985? So 85, 95. Is 40 years. Five. Shut up. I know I was like 15. 16. Yeah, that's 40 years. Damn. Yeah. Damn. That's amazing. Okay. That's. You win best dancer. Kind of crazy, right? Do you have, a best piece of advice for aging? Well, I mean, you kind of get a bunch sleep. Get sleep and and and just enjoy it. And, Troy, I do think it's it's everything together. Just enjoy it. I mean, some of the basic stuff, like just don't get, you know? It's all the things. Because some people can drink alcohol and is fine. It doesn't bother them. It's fine, you know. Do what? My dad used to say, like, if a doctor tells you to do something, he's like, you know, the number one thing why people don't get better? It's like, because they don't do what their doctor told them to do. You know, like like if you eat, there's just so many things. It's a it's a number of things. But a big one is sleep. What's your sleep routine? I try to go to bed eight hours a night, depending on when the day is. And if I don't get enough sleep, I take naps. I take a little nap. I like a little nap, a little fat before bed. But that's also tricky because I love reading so much. It's like watching TV for me and I could accidentally talk myself into, well, you don't really need eight hours. You'll be fine with seven or with what's tomorrow. You'll be fine with seven, you'll be fine with six. You're only doing you're not going to be using your brain that much tomorrow. I do the same. And I can talk. And while you get a nap. And after that meeting, you know. Right. So I it's tricky. I'm. I'm always trying to figure out what my routine is, but my goal is eight hours. What are you reading right now? Right now, I actually don't even know what it's called. It's by. I'd have to go look. Wait. Let me see. I read so much. Oh, it's just hold on. Okay? Lisa's going to get her book. She has the cutest pink face story behind her. Called Mat by Maggie O'Farrell. A book called The Hand That First Held Mine. She's the one who wrote a book called Hamnet, and she's an amazing author, and I've never read a bunch of her books. I am Maggie Farrell, Maggie O'Farrell. I also read Elizabeth Strout, who I love, I love, I started reading Colin. Colin. Right now I have to look his name up. I have to look at my Libby app. Also friends. Lots and lots of friends. You got it. You got to be with your friends. Yes, you. With people who make you feel like yourself. Try not to be with people who don't make you feel like yourself. Colin McCann. Colin is amazing. Oh. The new Frederick Backman book is so good. I don't know if this is just like fiction or non fiction. Fredrik Backman just wrote a book called My Friends, but he's famous for a man called Ovie. Oh, yeah, it's a movie called Iron Man called Otto. Yeah. Originally book a man Called. Auvers, and I read the book I read. I've seen, I've read the book. I've seen both. Both movies too. Yeah. So that was amazing. My friends is amazing. And I. Listen to okay, my friend. Which was unusual, but it was a great book on tape. From writing audios down. I have. I mean, I love Wally Lamb is amazing. He has a New York oh my God, his what was the the the one with the twins. Everything I know. All right. No, this much is true. It's true. Oh my God, that was like a that book just tore me up. That was crazy. I read that a million years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I love to read. Also, do you have just a, Well, you've given us a lot of advice. What about do you have, like a favorite health or beauty product? I have a lot. One of the ones I mean, I have the friend, the one that came to mind first was Elta sunscreen. I love it, I wear it daily. They have one that has a little moisturizer in it. I think sunscreen supposed to be good for anti-aging. I think, it's just, you know, you don't age as much. What else do I love? I have a whole list of products that I. I've got a whole list of products. But Elta, you know, sunscreen is. Yes. That's so good. Do you are your parents both still alive? My father passed in March. So, fortunately, he had been struggling with dementia for a few years, and that was really, really hard. And, he was a doctor and he retired late in life. And, so, yeah, that was my father. And my mother is still alive, and she's very youthful. Yeah. What would you learn from watching her? I, I don't, I think she just she she acts ageless, you know, like, she's always interested in things. She's really involved with her family. Her friends. Sometimes she says, I like to do one thing at a time, you know, take things slowly sometimes. Also, one thing I learned a lot from her is leave no stone unturned. And that could be difficult because you could spend too much time going down rabbit holes and doing too much research. But there have been so many cases where because I asked one more time, or I asked someone else, or I, you know, where I did get the better room, or I did get that application and even though the post office was closed, or I did get, I don't know, you, you know, you did meet a musician, you got backstage to meet a musician that you really wanted to or I don't know, that's a silly example, but, you. Know, going all the way to. Be like, okay, you know. Okay, don't accept that as an answer. Just keep going. I do your. Best to keep going in and, In a polite way and like, in a friendly way. Yeah, but I think it's really important. That's something that's always helped me. It's funny too, because I, think of it a lot in the music business. There's so many autobiographies I've written, I've read not written right, and so many of them are about breaking the rules and being someplace they weren't supposed to, and asking just one more time and sort of banging down those doors or secretly banging down those doors. And I think that that's, you know, again, it's hard to know when to hold them and when to fold them. But to have that instinct of wanting to. Do your best and ask for what you need or get, I don't know. I just think that's an important trait. It's really important in business. Yes. Also, another thing I learned from my mom is she just talks to everyone, and I, I have so many things in my life have happened because of just even though I grew up a shy, very, very shy girl. When I decided not to be shy anymore, I talk to people all the time. People on airplanes, people sitting next to me at restaurants. One of the reasons I have an eyewear line is because I was talking to a guy on an airplane. I was sitting next. I was I was getting very close to having an eyewear line with a very large company. And that the person who was in charge of us, they were fired or left or something, and that that deal didn't happen. But I was on a plane from Israel through Italy to the US, and I was in coach, and I was not wild about that. I was with my husband to be and I was not super happy about it. I wasn't like, you know, being bratty about it. I was just like, you know, we should have gotten but we were in like, coach place, and we were sitting next to a very, very tall, slightly older man. And we started talking to him. And it turned out he was a retired teacher whose current job was designing eyewear displays for, for mom and smaller companies. And, so I explained that I wanted to have my own eyewear line, and I showed him some examples of print that I had done, and that I was actually a musician and I was known for my glasses. And he said, oh, I know a company in San Diego who might be a good match. Like they might be looking for someone like you there, but their, their, their company's been growing. And he connected me with them. And that's how I started my eyewear line. Wow was with a company who was I was introduced to somebody through the guy I was sitting next to on the plane. That's incorrect. You know, that's so cool. Mom talks to everyone I do. Turns out this person knows that one. And you know. So yeah. So they're if my kids listen to this, which I'm sure they're not, they're always like, hey, you talk to everybody like, I know I do not. I talk to everybody and I talk to the frog I see in the yard. Like I talk to everybody and everything. My not animals. Lisa, thank you so much for being here today. You are so generous and lovely. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.