Akil Taher, MD - Eat Plants, Not Pills: One Doctor’s Radical Recovery

What would you do after open-heart surgery at 61? Dr. Akil Taher laced up his running shoes—and changed everything.

In this episode, Dr. Taher, author of Open Heart, shares how he transformed his life through plant-based eating, mindset shifts, and a refusal to accept aging as decline. He went from exhausted and on the verge of burnout to running marathons and climbing mountains—and he's just getting started.

We talk about the lifestyle choices that saved his life, the overlooked power of kindness and purpose, and the exact health pillars he swears by. If you think it's too late to turn your life around, this episode will make you think again.

💥 What You’ll Learn:

• What really pushed him to change after heart surgery
• Why food is medicine—and how to eat like it
• The 7 health pillars that help him age stronger, not sicker
• How to stay consistent (even when motivation dips)
• The role of mindset, movement, and meaning in long-term health
• The surprising link between kindness and physical well-being

https://www.akiltaher.com/

Buy the book, Open Heart Proceeds of the book benefit PETA and St. Jude's 

Follow us and reach out at:
Email: lauren@agelikeabadassmother.com
Facebook: @WellElephant
Instagram: @agelikeabadassmother

#HealthyAging, #PlantBasedLifestyle, #ReverseHeartDisease, #NeverTooLate, #WholeFoodPlantBased, #MidlifeTransformation, #LongevityTips, #RunForYourLife, #AgeLikeABadassMother, #DrAkilTaher, #GenX, #Podcast,

Transcript

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Hi, friend. He was 61, recovering from open heart surgery. And instead of slowing down, he ran a half marathon. And just months later. Doctor Akil Tahir didn't just change his diet, he changed his life. In this episode, he shares the exact lifestyle shifts that helped him reverse disease, reclaim his energy, and prove that it's never too late to start over. If you're tired of being told to accept decline with age, this one's for you. Like Doctor Tailor I to reverse my heart disease by following a whole food plant based diet. If you're ready to add more plant based meals to your life. Head over to my website. Well, elephant.com after the show to grab my free cookbook as my gift to you. And if you're really ready to reverse disease, check out my online Class A's plant based eating while you're there. I made this class with you in mind. Thank you for being here. You mean the world to me. Now let's go. Hi friend, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. From rebels and rule breakers to wellness warriors and wise women. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing, and we're not even close to finished. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Doctor Akil Tahir, author of Open Heart, is a practicing physician based in Atlanta, Georgia. Raised in Mumbai, India, he trained in family medicine at Flower Hospital in Ohio. In 2009 at the age of 61. Doctor Tahir underwent open heart surgery, a life changing event that led him to radically transform his lifestyle. Following his surgery, he adopted a whole food plant based diet and embarked on an intense fitness regimen. His remarkable post-surgery journey includes running marathons, completing triathlons, and even climbing Mount Kilimanjaro doctor. Tayyar shares his inspiring transformation from a sedentary lifestyle to becoming a septuagenarian athlete, and a passionate advocate for heart health and plant based living. Please welcome Doctor Taher. How are you? I'm doing so well. Everything is fine. I'm so. I must thank you for that very generous introduction. And thank you for having me. Oh, of course, you were just sharing that. You got some some stings yesterday on your run. Your were the hornets. Did you say. Wasp. Wasps. So these were as I was going in the woods. I usually do this early in the morning. And being a Sunday it was pretty crowded. But I was on my own and suddenly I stepped into something which was possibly the nest of this wasp. And I got bitten all over. So, said the two ladies following me, and, I was. I feel terrible now because I could not help them because I was bitten. But I asked the people around there to help out and call 911 if need be. So yeah, I'm sure you felt really helpless, especially being a doctor. And you were so beat up. Absolutely. The whole night I've been thinking. I hope that ladies okay. I hope the leaning. And we were just talking about how kind people are, like all the people who wanted to help and just believing that people are so good and kind. Amazing, amazing. Everywhere I stopped and want. People seem, if you're going by the river, see that there there is a wasp or a hornet's nest. I really don't know. But you will get bitten if you go in that part. And they were so appreciative. And then people said, do you need any help? Can we do anything for you? So I mean, it basically I think people are just good. It's it's still with environment and things like this, daily life. And some of them change, but inherently they're good people. Can you can you tell me, So you grew up in Mumbai. That's a that's a big city. That used to be Bombay, right? That was referred to as Bombay. Bombay big city. It's on the coast or. Big city having a coastline, but, not so much influenced by the West when I was growing up. Now there is a complete dichotomy of villages having their own things, and the cities, like any big sprawling city in the world. But what was your life like? Did you live in a big apartment building or in a village? No. My, roots are, that my parents could not afford. We were rather for having a better word. We were. We were poor so we could not afford things that the rest of the people around or middle class families or could afford to. I was I grew up in a family of about, cousins and everybody around and my brothers and my sister and we were in just one room and we used one, toilet that was that. Everybody had to take their turns. And so that was, my life as I grew up. And, but, I do remember a few things during that time that, I joined the Scouts, and I was very happy that and that taught me a lot of things that at that time, how to be self-reliant. And, you know, really face challenges in life. So that was a great thing. And it was also was, he had a company for tourism. When in India you have this hill stations, some and many tall, which are far cooler than Mumbai. So he needed, people to help. So that was my first opportunity of going with this because in India you don't get a chance. So I would go and we would all take people to Nani daal and, arrange for the food. And in the old days, you know, it was fantastic. It was unbelievable. How old were you? I must be in my 15, 16 years or I did it up to 18, 19 years. It's not 18. 19 years till I was 18. 19, right? Right. And so what, what kind of like did your family eat? Healthy. Were they vegetarian? I know. No. We were omnivores. We ate meat as well as, vegetarian. But being poor, we could not afford meat, eggs and dairy on a regular basis. So that in some way has helped me because you could not afford it. So you had one vegetable, one lentil, this thing and your eyes. That was it. Wow. And so at what age did you come to the United States? Well, I came to the United States, in my, 40s, in my 40s, rather late, rather late. And I really had a lot of catching up to do to live this American dream. Prior to this, I was 11 years in the Middle East. Middle East with the American University of Beirut. There was the first medical school, along with my British and American, counterparts. So you were already a doctor in in Mumbai? Yes. Okay. And then you went to the Middle East and started the medical school, and then you were 40 and you came here, and then I guess you had to go back to medical school, right, to get a different license or. Yeah. What what really happened was initially, let me explain to you that when I came over here, I had a lot of catching up to do. So what really happened was, it did it had a downside to it working because I used to work long, long hours. But the downside was that I was not really paying attention to myself, family or friends. And that got me in, kind of a problem, because my eating habits by then, being in the Middle East, where you're only shwarma and meats and, tacos and, so that continued when I came to America because the hospitals in America, the doctors may say whatever they want to the patients, but they themselves are not eating healthy because it my time, especially pork chops, fried chicken. So I consume everything under the sun. Everything that moved I ate. And I was called by my friends and my family that you a seafood eater. You, you eat everything inside it so I enjoyed I did that without worrying about what effect it would have on my body. Can you ask me a question? Yeah, right. About you did say something, which I missed when you were asking me. I think I was asking about your, medical training. Did you have to get, like, go back and get a different medical license to practice in the US? What happens is anybody who comes to the United States have to go through, an examination. Okay. See that your, the things that you have done. So you appear for that exam, that is number one. Number two is that you have to do residency again. Even though I had done the residency in the American University of Beirut. But, here I had to do it again. And how many years is that? It's about three years for family practice. But I got a waiver for one year. So I was two years because of my past. Okay. And so things are going on. You have a family? Of course. How many kids do you have? I have two. Two kids. One, son who is, followed my footsteps. He is you are in Atlanta. He's a hospitalist. And, my daughter, who is, attorney with the federal government. So she keeps both the brother and the father in check. But that's good. Okay. You must be a proud papa. That's good. So, at the age of 56, you found out you had heart disease. How did you know that you had heart disease? Do you have symptoms of following? Of what I just told you about my coming at a late age and eating whatever I wanted to. I also was not exercising. I did not know the meaning of exercise, so I would be a couch potato watching TV, only using my hand muscles to change the channels, the remote and I with that kind of if I was not eating or, you know, working, I was just lying on the couch. And so with all this, my family history isn't too good, but my mother and my sister died at the age of 69 of heart disease. My brother had succumbed to a stroke at the age of 52. And so my, my and and what I realized is that I had I also had a wolf Parkinson white syndrome. Sounds like a movie, you know, I said, but it's not it's a conduction defect in my heart. So it's an accessory pathway. You know, there are pathways of conduction. So this can cause my heart rate to go rapidly, very high. So that was what I had. And then lately, lately, just last year I found out that I had a very, very high LP. Little. I have that as well. Yes. And remember one thing LP little A is a hidden threat. Can you tell people what that is if they don't know? Yeah, she LP is just like your bad cholesterol, your LDL, but it has an extra protein. Apolipoprotein A, this apolipoprotein A makes this cholesterol stickier. And it can more inflammatory. And so it can form plaques in your peripheral arteries in your heart. And it can cause calcification in your erotic, your wound in your heart, causing aortic stenosis. That awarding valves pushes blood out of the body to the different parts of your organs, even the brain. But once it is denoised, then you can get back pressure and you can get heart failure. Yeah. And your chances of dying of a heart disease far increases. If you've got LP lately and high cholesterol. Yes. And that's I had that as well. And my research. Well they're, they're doing some experimental drugs now. Right. But basically, you know, this can't be changed through diet, exercise, medication. So that's my understanding. But now they're doing some, some research with drugs. But let me just let me just, win this out to the listeners that you have 2 or 3 drugs in the pipeline that are coming out, but they're in the final stage. But the point is that they we don't know if drug bringing down LP little will translate into less heart attacks and strokes, or once they get that, then they will let the drugs out. But having said that, there are two things that can lower your LP delay. What's your LP? Little? I also can be in people who are completely normal normal cholesterol, high blood pressure, no blood pressure, no sugar, nothing. And they may go one day and die. Like sometimes you feel sports people in great health dying. So that is the LP little a and and it's genetic. It's genetic. It's from your parents. And you have to get it tested once because that's all that there is. But having said that, there are two things now that can lower LP. Literally one is the reporter is shots for lowering your cholesterol. For a pathway. Yeah. Is that a drug? It's a drug. It's a injectable drug. Okay. That lowers your, LP literally to about 30 to 35%, but FDA has not approved it. Okay. It's only approved this to lower your back cholesterol. So but but you could use it for off label just to, to lower your LP little. Okay. And number two is number two. Is that a whole food plant based diet can reduce it by 16%. If you use it on your whole food plant based diet, it can reduce it. So the advantages are your not only losing weight with a whole food plant based diet and people putting on because you're not lost weight. No it is your LP little absolutely goes down. It happened in my case because my LP, literally, as I told you, was 300 plus. Yeah, mine was really high. Two anomalies 50. If you go 50 and about is high. So that way these two are the ones. Otherwise you have to do eat the Reese's is what you do is you take the blood out like your dialysis, take the blood out, take out the LP literally and put the blood back in your body. It's a $50,000, treatment for a year. Okay, well, that's kind of crazy, but, okay, so we're going to come back to talking about whole food plant based diet. But all right, so you knew you had something going on because what, you were having angina or do you say angina or re-engineer some, some people say a different. Yeah. It's angina. So it under you can say they talked about me. I was not surprised that heart disease came knocking at a very young age, 56. And so at two of my arteries blocked in 98 to 99%, oh one was at Widowmaker. So now when when you had 98, 99% and we didn't know much, I mean, about LP or whatever, my cardiologist suggested I should get stents put. So I went to get my stents put in and because they weren't, the blocks were so hard, they had to use a diamond to, to to drill, to shave off the blocks. And in the process, I got a cardiac arrest. So my heart stopped. And then they had to shock me to revive my heart again. And I tell people, that was my first, this thing with and encounter with that. And so when I got up, I was all bruised and my, and surprisingly, he did a great job that he stopped it when my heart stopped and said, come again next day. So I went next day. And then you completed the whole procedure. But here is a bummer. He did such a fine job, young cardiologist. And two years after it did what about me? And saved my life? He died of a massive heart attack. Oh wow. And it's so sad. 44 years old. Wow. That's terrible. That's so sad. Did did you have, like, a near-death experience or did you know you were dying? Right? I don't recall. All I recall was getting up in the morning and thought I was in some kind of a war, because I was bruised all over me. No. So I think, like, somebody shot me or something, you know? But then, then I got over it. But the fact is, Lauren, people would now listeners would think, yeah, that must have got doctor. Tell him to change. I did not, I did not, and I continued my erratic way of life and I had no exercise again. And it's seems that I was leading this kind of a life without because it because it with the thing boys and boys that I was a doctor and was supposed to treat patients, not become a patient. All this while I was under control, now I lost control. So the idea was that that made me feel even worse. So I got into kind of a severe depression and, I would sit, sit for long hours looking into nothingness, my night sweats in the night, bad dreams, and, Oh, boy, I used to get anger and buildup. I would get really angry. And, all this created more problems in my. You had a lot of health problems, didn't you? Yeah. So now what other problems? It. So what happens is it creates so much of health problems and pneumonias and bronchitis would visit me every year. I started coming in on fissures and hemorrhoids and the infamous diverticulitis, which, incidentally, perforated twice. You had a perforated intestine or, yes, twice. And so I was in the hospital for, three weeks each time and I.V., antibiotics. And then I would get out of the hospital having ulcers in my mouth and whatnot. So this continued, this kind of life continued five years till my stents filled. So I had to go in for an open heart surgery. Do most people's stents fail eventually because one. There are two aspects to it. My lifestyle did not change and I was on the cusp of where they were just coming out with medicated stents. Mine were not medicated. So. So they have medicated stents now? Yeah. Now they've even gone a step further. They have stents that can dissolve after your lifestyle change has taken place and medications have taken place, and they dissolve. Okay. So we have to okay. So at 61 you had bypass surgery and then you had made like a delusional post-op promise to the nurses. Right. You said what did you say? I said, Mark my words in a year's time, if all goes well, I am going to do a half marathon. I don't know why I said this. The nurses in new me said they would sort of humor me. Some of them. Yes. Yes, doctor Dan, it's okay. You will do. You will do. Not a half marathon. You'll do one medal. Just kidding around. But I was serious that, I have to do this. And so now, even now, I'm thinking, why did I say that? And I realize that there were only two choices left at that time. I need to continue living this sad life long. And ultimately, that or I have to make a change. So I opted for making a change so that I could do something, positively with passion. And that was the thing that I wanted to do before they put me under. Yeah. Let's go. And how did how did. So you did, you know, you ran the half marathon and then you ran full marathon. And so tell us about that part of your life a little bit where you started being an athlete. Yeah. You see, I started off because first thing when I got up out of the anesthesia and the third day I was on the treadmill, number one, number two, I did not take a single pain medication because, Lauren, this was far better than the mental torture of last five years. And yeah, you kind of felt like you had a little control, maybe by starting at ten. Yeah, all the things I've done. So now I was on a complete recovery from myself. Totally. So I, I started I was wondering, what should I do in physical? And I said, look, I promised the nurses and this is a cheaper sport because I can have shorts and sneakers. So I took that and started to walk because I am not even done one kilometer long. Wow. In the age of 61. So I started walking. Walking became jogging. Jogging became running into me. This is what I coined that to me. Running became embedded in motion. I loved the birds chirping and and a lot of people will tell you you always have a partner when you run or 2 or 3 people, but I differ. I love running alone. That's why I went yesterday on my own. The wooded area it to me it is meditation. I mean, you people, you talk and so. Yeah. And you don't listen to music or podcasts or anything. You just like to listen to nature. I listen to music, but it's more like, like a Buddha's flute. Okay. It's music. That type of I put in my. Okay. And I listened to that. I did that and then again, 7 to 8 months. Later, my wife and I went to Nashville to do my first half marathon. And then and there I describe in my book and it is so true. I am not kidding you that we went late at about,

ten, 11: 25:41

00 in the night to Nashville

and, I couldn't sleep 1: 25:44

00 to him. I say, oh my God, I have to do this major thing I've never done in my life. And then I got up. There was a dichotomy of fear and excitement. But then I got a dream. And my dream was that I was I was representing America in the Olympics, and I just got a medal, and they were putting the medal on me, and I was busting out with the Star-Spangled banner, but all totally in the wrong tune. And and I was wondering why people are not. Because I did that and got up in the morning little jittery. My wife was there too, so don't worry about it. Too many of you don't do. It's okay when and all that and started running and I realize there were hills. My little town, Gadsden in Alabama, did not have hills. And so I was. It was a knot in my stomach. I mean, there it is. What am I going to do? Then I said, you know, I'll kill. Forget it. Just enjoy. You're not enjoying yourself. You want to achieve something. Forget that human. Forget the end result. Look at the journey now on this half marathon. That helped me immensely. And they're finished and I did. I finished it and wrote four grueling hours. But I finished it and there was a there were people around and, this as we ran, they were give you drinks, some meat, give you a gin and tonic. I wouldn't tell your audience whether I took that or not. And we went, and we, I did the thing, and I finished it. But from then on, there was no stopping, no stopping. I ran my first full marathon, then two more marathons, and then did a triathlon. Then I went with my son on his birthday to jump from an airplane. And then I went bungee jumping in New Zealand. Wow. Yeah. So I did all these with we don't fool with, which was making me happy. And like, I don't know, I tell people, when your pipes are cleared up now and you're doing great, why not make an advantage to me? Lauren, it was a second chance at life, and I didn't want to miss out on anything. That's so beautiful. And you, you talked about how you really changed before. I guess this is why your book is called Open Heart. You know, because the double entendre of the surgery and opening your heart, because you said before the surgery you were arrogant and a party animal and obsessed with, you know, money and and so how how did you how did you change? Like, why how are you different now? I, I was I have still a lot of skeletons in my closet. So everybody does. Not feel that I am. I'm some kind of I say no, I'm not number one. Number two is that how did I change? You see, after doing seven, seven. After seven months, I did a half marathon. Then from my surgery to one year, somebody invited me to climb Mount Kailash, which is the same as Mount Kilimanjaro, more than 19,000 plus feet. And I realized it was Trek. I thought it was trekking. So I said, sure, I join you guys, you know? And I realized that it was a pilgrimage yatra. And so I tried to back out, because I was not very religious in any sort of way, more not even spiritual at that moment, you know. So I went and and but the Chinese, the people that they dislike of you got an American passport and because of the fight between China and India. So if you look like an Indian, they dislike you even more. So they would not let me go back. The whole party goes 30 people or you, you go with them. So I said, look, if you can't beat them, join them, try to join them and set down in their what they called the pilgrim. They do the prayers in the morning, I sit cross-legged, did all those things, and they started enjoying. And so when we reached 19,000, he said, circumvent, circumvent the mountain. The mountain is far higher than 19, but you can't go higher than 19,000, right? You're not allowed to climb that mountain, right? No, you are allowed to up to 19,000ft so you can circumvent. So we circumvented and then when we reached a mountain that everybody is high fiving and hugging and saying, great, we'll mean it. I did not want to do that. I wanted to be alone. So I walked by. Of course, I did my high praise, but I went and sat on a piece of rock. And for the first time I really thought all these luxuries that I was after expensive cars and watches and this and that and could I do without all this? Because this 3 or 4 days of circumventing was your basics. There was nothing. You cannot take a shower for three days and you're climbing and you go to hell, and then you're protecting yourself and it's extremely cold. And I asked myself, what do you think that you would be able to survive? And something came over me which I cannot express in words, but something that you can only feel. I forgot about it. The going down was also tremendously difficult because the hill at that time I came down, settled down with my wife, and my wife said that something happened over there. I told them maybe I could put them in some skirmish or something. I said, no, no, no, nothing happened. He said, no, something has happened over there because your melatonin, She would know. Is a power of spirituality, which I believe. So I am not akin to religion. I don't mind people who are religious. I respect them for it. But to me, I can be as comfortable in a temple or a synagogue or mosque or you name it as anywhere else. But that is, that's what I am at this point in time. It's funny that your wife sense that change in you. Can can you give me give me like a couple of adjectives about yourself before this experience and a couple after? Well, I was, be all and know all kind of a person. It was my way. Was the right way. The rest of them. And not following the highway. Dig the highway. I was under control. Control. Meaning that my stuff could be so edgy. I when I would come around in the clinic. But now this sort of. After what happened. They love me. Even before that, they did not dislike me. But I was extremely strict, I mean you. So I learned how to let a person go if the person is not good enough in a humane fashion point, I would say, My God, you did this. You're fired now. I said, look, listen, you have a lot of good qualities. You can do much more somebody else, but this is not the right spot for you. Do you agree with me? And it makes such a big difference. Yeah, it's. It would hurt me. And I let her go. So I believed that that kind of an arrogance. And, and I write in my book when the police were there and when I was in Birmingham and, to me the attitude was that I was driving by myself and miles over the speed limit. But the way I dealt with it. And the police officer came and said, can I have your license? I said, you can have my license, but come on. Okay, one more time. Find me, find me. That did not go well. Yeah. She generally don't appreciate that. So and I and I didn't mean to sort of get him down. It was just that I was tired and I said, okay, you're. But, you see, that is why I was very open of my shortcomings in the book, because my editor told me, you can't write on this. I said, no, I have to let people know. So that when people read this, they can realize their shortcomings and how to handle that. And that people can change. So at this point, you were still eating, you know, you you were eating kind of vegetarian and fish and so forth. You thought, you know, you had cleaned up your eating. But then you went to on a heart, Healing Arts Center, to talk about that. And I had the Healing Center. I went around and looked online or something. That was. And where is this? This is in Mysore in India. Okay. It is so I was looking at a thing which did not have all the fancy things, just the bare minimum. So I found this place, and when I reached,

I reset about 8: 35:22

00 in the night, and, I didn't see anything. I mean, there was no place with this person. This takes me in a kind of a hut and says, okay, you come over here. This is your room. Kind of a just a got a, bed and, a basin and a place to shower, that's all. There was nothing there. Why were you going there? What? What was the purpose of this? What did they do there? Experience what people felt and what people who live this kind of life. Are they happy or not? But what kind of place is this? Is it a meditation place, or. Did they do everything? What they do is, you know, you go over there and help in everything that they do. So if you want to cook, you can do cooking. Then if you want to wash utensils, you wash utensils, you want to plant something, you can plant something. And all these were incorporated. And the idea was and never told me they do. This is stuck. What would you like to do today? There are things you can be doing nothing but the rest. Period. We had been a hammock. We would just be there and like. But rest of the time we did things with the people. So we went in the community and we knocked the doors and they were so gracious and they welcomed us and being a doctor, I people would say, look, my daughter has this swelling in the sink and she's been down to a thyroid. And then I would talk to them about that and it was really good. Every and in the, in the, in the night there were dogs barking, you know, stray dogs were barking and, but it was soothing to me. Normally if the dogs bark anywhere around here, I say, oh my God, the neighbor's dog is barking. But here it was not like that. It was great. There was a school next door to this particular place and we went there. And nature has a way to heal. Being out in the open, barefoot and just walking around and doing things made such a big difference. Certain things. And this is where you first encountered a whole food plant based diet, is that right? No, no it's. Not. No, I think I had done, prior to that. What had happened was that because of, my diverticulitis, I changed. My dad had become better. I was eating better. I was exercising, meditation, yoga, all that I was doing. But I still had illnesses. It would come not as often, but they were still there, especially with this diverticulitis. So it would come up out of them. And then. Then I would wonder why, what am I doing that is wrong? That is a time when I started reading and talking to my peers, talking to Dean Ornish, talking to, Esselstyn and all this. My colleagues, I talked to them and, I read papers, research papers. And that is a time because I want to, research on ways how to heal the body without solely relying on medicine or surgery. What? Why did that occur to you at that? So diverticulitis is, is like an intestinal disease. Is that right? It's a large in the, colon. Okay. So that is where you have perforations, I mean that. Okay. I got two colitis pockets. Then they turned into perforations so that was there. Plus I would still get things like, you know, bronchitis or sinus congestion. And I was wondering that if I'm doing everything right, this should not be that often now. Right? So that was a time when I realized that this there's something here that I should be looking into, and that is when I realize the seven magnificent, magnificent seven pillars, you know, the Magnificent Seven, the more. Yes. So, so what are the magnificent seven pillars? You see, the most important of this pillar is your nutrition. It is not heart disease that is killing people. It is nutrition that is causing heart disease and killing people. So nutrition is like your maestro, your leading the band, but you need interconnects with others to connect to get the best outcomes. So if nutrition is your main thing, then exercise that you have to do at least 30 minutes of, moderate intensity exercise, at least five days a week. And not just be that then more on the 10,000 steps or whatever people do because you can't be just sitting. Then you have sleep. I give talks on sleep. I'm going in September to Hilton Head. I did with you to that. Yes, we did, on PBS, I interviewed you about sleep. And actually, I've been trying to do better because you could tell us a little bit about sleep. You talked about the sleep cycles. I thought that was interesting. Can you can you just tell us briefly about why sleep is so important? You guys sleep is very important because people think that sleep is the absence of being awake, which is not true. Your your brain is functioning far more when you're asleep than when you're awake, because that is a time when your muscle is being built. Your thought process is all that is being taken. The clarity of your mind. And a lot of different things happen at that time in your deep sleep. And there are two stages a deep sleep and a dream sleep. The deep sleep has again got several. It's a 90 minute cycle in the 90 minutes. You have a deep sleep and your dreams sleep. So when you're starting to go off to sleep is you unwind and then you go into the deep sleep and after a while you get into the dream sleep. So early part of the night, more deep sleep says 70 minutes and 20 minutes or dreams later part when you're about to get up. That is the dream sleep disorder. That is the reason when you get up sometimes. Oh my God, I was in a dream is that is when the dream and and and I read an article that even people with, problems of, post-traumatic disorders, sometimes dreams can help them to overcome this. So that is one of the dream. And these are the two main components of sleep. And then you do have to understand that we we we are such a workaholic people. We say, okay, now it's time to stop working. Now is the time to eat my food. Now is it time to sleep? Let me go to bed and sleep is no unwinding. Yes, unwinding process should take place for everybody. When I give this example to people that of course I have not achieved it myself. But there is our Prime Minister in India, Narendra modi. He just talked about it, that within one minute when he puts his head on the pillow, he goes off to sleep. So what I tell people is that in 20 minutes, if you can't fall asleep, get out of the room, do something else, meditate, do yoga, do something else, listen to create music, then come back. So, unwinding is so, so very important that it's like when you go to the dining table, you don't really wait to get hungry. You eat. So why should you be waiting to get us get sleep. Right. And I mean, it's funny you talked about dreams because I'm thinking about your dream where you're about to run your half marathon and then you dream that you're representing America in the Olympics. So it kind of did help you, right? And it helped me to finish you that. You're like, I can't let America down. I have to finish. Yeah. And I guess so much healing takes place during our sleep, too, right? Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Muscles, tendons, bones, a lot of things you're you're depressed in depression that you have clarity of the mind so that you can solve these problems. Sleep is a wonder. And so. Okay, I interrupted you about your pillars. So sleep. What else? Sleep. Then you come across stress. Everybody is stress. Every single person has stress. But you need to handle stress. And I tell people that most of the times you have stress is when you have a death in the family. Divorce or debt when you owe money, money to people. So these are the factors that and bring on a lot of stress. So before embarking on medication, I was just giving a talk on Saturday and a walk with the dog. So we do A57 minute stuff. And I was telling people that, you know, when you go on this, a prospect of stress and how to handle stress, you must realize that you're meditation, yoga, all these are far more important because they did a study in, Duke University, and they found out that depressed people, they took a group of depressed people, and they've got half of them were on 16 weeks of exercise routine, and the other half were on antidepressant like Zoloft, Paxil, or what have you. And they found that the people in the exercise group did far better than the people in the Zoloft group. And number two, the relapse rate was far less than the other group. So this is something phenomenal that we are not looking at it, but we need to handle stress in a way, meditation, which is so difficult for me. My wife goes into a trance and I am struggling. So that is my I'm trying to trying to. Yeah. I love meditation. I did it before we I meditate before every guest just so that I can connect. And I only did it for seven minutes because that's all I had time for. But I try to meditate every day, at least ten, 15, 30 minutes, you know, just depends. Sometimes, like like I said, today was only seven minutes. But I love meditating. It's so helpful to me, meditation and yoga. Youth yoga. Your sun salutation is one thing that you require for stretching all your muscles. Every part of your body is being stretched. Yeah. So can. And then comes avoiding abusive substances. That is a fifth one. And on alcohol and cigaret smoking, everybody knows. One caveat over here that alcohol does no good for anybody if you're drinking socially once. In a way, I am not being judgmental. But if you are drinking because you think your HDL is going to go good, cholesterol is going to go high. All that, it's all hogwash. Am I supposed to say the word hogwash in this? I don't know. What. Did you just ask me if you could say hogwash? Oh my gosh, you don't. Yeah, apparently you've never listened to this. I say some bad words sometimes. That has meant that. Yeah, but this is this is true. And so, that then you have a robust support system. Wait, let me go back one second. What about, like marijuana gummies? A lot of people take those now to relax. What about. Those? Yeah. I believe very strongly that, Sanjay Gupta, who is a CNN doc, once come around with this, that it should help people who are not being held by any other means. Okay. So I am not against it. You can if helping somebody, you're not causing any harm. Okay. And, but my point is this in this, my point is not only the street drugs, of course, but even prescription drugs. Like your hydrocodone and all that once you're sure you're hooked on it. And finally you have the support system, a rope support system where you have the in the blue zones. Yeah. That's great. It's non-judgmental support system. Right. But they're not judging you but you are intermingling with these people. And that was A61 and seven one is what I have made up is I hope I get it right now. Love lots. Laugh aloud, live large. So that is what's going. Yeah. That's what you've been doing. You've been a good example. Let's just talk a little bit more about whole food plant based diet because I guess that's something that you and I share, that how we conquered our heart disease. And, so for, for those people who I think people who listen to this podcast with any regularity know about it, but if you're just tuning in for the first time, a whole food plant based diet is legumes. Whole grains. Okay, tell us a little bit legumes, beans, peas. And let me tell you that people who turn into vegans or whole food plant based, two types of people. One is they do it for environmental reason. Number two is they do it for animal rights. And third, they do it for health. My wife and daughter both did it for animal rights. And 40 years back I did not. And I turned because of health reasons. Now meat, eggs and dairy are your main components that are against your health. Now what should you be eating now? I, Doctor Esselstyn, is a very strict person and you have to do a whole food plant based. No salt, oil or sugar. Doctor Dean Ornish on the other spectrum says, look, let people change for the better, even if they're changing slowly. So give up one thing at a time, see how good you feel. And so that is what I did in my life is a first I gave up dairy. I realized immediately. One thing is that if you want to advise somebody to give up something of their meat, eggs and dairy, tell them to give up dairy first because the results come in and very soon. So that's what I did. Then I slowly, gave up, meat. But I was still eating fish. But coming to your point, you I asked people to be flexitarian and first cut back on meat, eggs and dairy and introduce more fruits and vegetables. Whole grains, beans, your legumes. All this should be. You know, that is where your protein is coming from. You don't require animal protein. You you mind me? I want to talk about animal protein to. But anyway, that was, your animal protein. Number three, is that you take pumpkin seeds or sunflower seeds as your snack. So when you introduce this vegetables, I play a game with my, patients. Sometimes they mean from A to Z, all that alphabet, all the fruits and vegetables. And they will go asparagus and beef up bok choy or broccoli. And we we have a game. So that is what you should be doing now, what you should not be doing when you're becoming a flexitarian and slowly changing is that you should avoid sugar to a large extent, because sugar is one of the things you could take 13 teaspoonful of sugar is what an average American picks. Salt. Number two hidden salt. If you are an outdoor person eating in restaurants you're getting a lot of hidden salt. 3.5g when the American Heart Association says 1.5 I say even less than processed food in ultra processed food. I mean I see so many mothers, you and my own daughter, right in the beginning that giving my, grandson all. But this is a thin layer of a turkey. It has got no fat. No, my dear, this is processed. You can't make that turkey ultra processed foods. And then to me, milk is what it is. Liquid meat. Yes. Jane. Velez. Mitchell. Assad. She said that liquid meat. Got out of a gap of 2% milk. Is it the same saturated fat and cholesterol is an ounce of meat. So when you have that in number three is that we don't read labels. Even in my own family, they don't they don't know how to read the labels. You may be shocked that they will say, okay, two grams of fat, but there are 16 servings in that. Right? So you're thinking two grams and you're taking half that again and putting it on your sandwich or whatever. So I used to read the labels and sometimes I can't even pronounce the words. Yeah. And you're right. I liked how you talked about dairy in your book that you said, we're really the only species who, first of all, has dairy. After where weaned, and we drink the milk of other animal species. We're the only ones who do that. That's crazy when you think about it like that is you. And they found they've done research, and the science is proof that you have these cows which are tortured by giving them estrogen because you cannot get milk unless the guy was pregnant. Then we have the audacity to steal that milk and use it in our cereal and coffee. And then we have the greater audacity to take that calf and give it to the restaurants to be used as veal. I know it's in the. The, the. And anybody who's a parent, you know, you can just picture that mama cow crying for her baby cow shake and the babies cry for their mother. It's horrific. Dairy is the most cruel. It's horrible. Absolutely. And and what they do is they they put this huge, steel things in the others to get the milk out, and that lacerated their udders. So that is why the antibiotics, what human she was, is far less than what it is when used on animals. Similarly, animal farming. So most of the food is gone to the animals. So that is your reason why, I didn't. Who was it for? Lots of her. Who said that? As long as you eat meat, you will not eat. There will always be wars. Yes. Who is that? Was it Pythagoras or doctors? Yeah. You're right, you're right, you're right. He said that as long as you have keep on, they will always be war amongst people. If you keep on eating meat on his down his table, there was no meat allowed. Yeah. A lot of great thinkers. I think Victoria moran on her website has all the great thinkers who have been vegan and vegetarian and, and quotes from. Them. We should ask them to put your name and my name there. Yeah. Oh yeah. We're the great thinker. You maybe you. Yeah. I've never been called a great thinker, but thank you. So, just how can we slow down the aging process? By. By what we're eating? How does that. It. That thing is. Diet is more important than exercise. Number one, food feeds disease or it fights disease. It is not genetics that genetics run in the family. It is your food number one. So aging well is to be strong in your party, sharpen your mind and big things with an open heart and do things with real passion. And, purpose should be there and with positivity. If you follow these things with the six pillars of seven magnificent pillars that I've talked about, you're a winner. I am doing now, I don't know, I, I am and, I'm, I'm, I use my body in a lot of different ways. So what the end result of that? I don't know when, but what I'm leading a life is completely what I want to do. This is a life that I should have lived before when I was in my 40s. Yeah. So just the. It's just a couple of times I've met you, I. I can't believe I can ever picture you being, not nice or you. You just seem so lovely and open that I it it does. I do feel like eating this way does open you up a lot. Because I think you and I both came to eating this way because of health. But then it opens you up to see the cruelty to the animals and to, you know, to be kinder to other people. It it just really does change everything. I believe. And my, my main thing is that and this is again, what I tell people that this is my adventure may hurt you, but monotony will kill you. So it has its meaning in this because you are you using, adventure, not climbing mountains or running this thing. What? I am using that as doing something outside your comfort zone. Yeah. Then monotony settles in when you're doing the same thing again and again and again and again to get out of your comfort zone. Do gardening, do cooking, play a game of chess, do like my wife has taken up mahjong. And, so why not? That challenges you. So that is it. And my one of the lasting to people is. Remember, folks, adversity can be your best friend or your worst enemy. After my five years that I was in depressed mode adversity when I found out that I had blockages was my worst friend after the heart surgery was, you know, like, I'm going in for surgery. They're going to do anesthesia. What happened the last time? Okay. But it became my best friend. Changed your life. That is what I'm saying. You know. That's beautiful. And how old are you now? I'm 77. Look at you. Amazing how much weight did you lose when you started eating this? And never overweight. You weren't? No. In terms of the rest and missing of BMI, body mass index, I was never. You were never overweight, never overweight. But did I carry fat? Yes. Visceral DCT So that is where you would seen a lot of Indians who are vegan junk food vegans. They are not BMI 2122. And visceral fat is around your middle. Is that right around your organs? It might be around your organs, your liver, your heart, all this fat which is directly related to heart disease. So I was carrying like a kangaroo getting up. Okay. And then lastly, what's your what's your best piece of advice overall? They did ever the best piece of advice you've ever received, or that you just want to give. The best piece of advice I received, I would I would follow this thing. What I just said that, to live life to the fullest because and number two is age should not be a limiting factor in changing your lifestyle. People have done it for younger people have done it older than I am. But that should not be a factor because most of us. Oh, now I'm old. I'm. It's okay if I don't do this. No, no, no, it's not okay that reaching 100 or 90 9 or 90 is manmade. I can tell you, the people that I respect a lot is Dr. Collins and, essence in both in the 90s and that's Christian was, Olympic, gold medalist. Yes. For rowing. Yeah. So you can use those. Oh, and my other hero is, and National Health Association. Mark. Mark Huberman. You imagine he's both. Amazing. He's born as, as a vegan. As a plant? Yes. Yeah. He's I what? How old is he? He's probably in is. Is is same roughly same age as I am and two years younger and. He's. Yes. You're right. His father was, from his father. I think they called it. What it National. Or they called it Hygin X or something. But it was vegan, and he was born into a vegan world, and so he's just been healthy from the start. A whole food plant based. When you can. You will find like that because it's yours back. Yes. 1948 and 1950s. Right. So you can't find very many people who are like that hygiene. They called it just natural hygiene. That's what they called it. Yeah. Well, Doctor Taylor, thank you so much for talking to us today and sharing your beautiful story. I, I hope that everybody gets your book open heart and great. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And, lovely. All the best hope your week goes as well as you wanted to be. Thank you. You too. Bye bye bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.