Dr Niki Davis: Healing Thyroid and Blood Sugar Problems Starts with This One Shift

Dr. Niki Davis takes us on her unconventional journey from working in rocket science to becoming a board-certified family and lifestyle medicine physician. 

Driven by a deep passion for nutrition and preventative health, Dr. Davis shares how a whole-food, plant-based lifestyle transformed not only her health but also the lives of her patients.

We dive into common but often misunderstood conditions like thyroid disorders and type 2 diabetes, exploring early symptoms, effective management strategies, and the powerful role lifestyle plays in prevention and reversal. Dr. Davis also opens up about the crucial (and often overlooked) importance of sleep, and how small, sustainable changes can have a significant impact on how we age.

Whether you’re struggling with chronic health issues or want to feel better in your own skin, this conversation offers practical insights and powerful motivation to take charge of your health—at any age.

https://www.drnikidavis.com/

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#ThyroidHealth, #Type2DiabetesReversal, #WholeFoodPlantBased, #LifestyleMedicine, #WomenOver40Wellness, #HealthyAgingTips, #SleepSolutions, #ReverseChronicIllness, #AgingWithVitality, #AgeLikeABadassMother, #GenX,

Transcript

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Hi friend. My guest this week is Doctor Nikki Davis. We dive into common but often misunderstood conditions like thyroid disorders and type two diabetes. Exploring early symptoms, effective management strategies, and the powerful role that lifestyle plays in prevention and reversal. Stay until the end where we discuss sleep strategies. Lord knows I need that. And if you're new here, please listen to the podcast episode about how I reversed my heart disease and lost 20 pounds by eating a whole food plant based diet. I'm posting easy and delicious meal ideas regularly to the age like a badass mother. YouTube channel, so please subscribe so you don't miss any and ask me any questions in the comment section and I will answer you back. Of course, you can always reach me at Lauren at age like a badass mother.com. I love hearing from you. It means the world to me. And as always, thank you for listening. Hi friend, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. From rebels and rule breakers to wellness warriors and wise women. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing, and we're not even close to finished. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Nikki Davis, MD, made a shift from career in rocket science to become a board certified family and lifestyle medicine physician. She holds a certificate in plant based nutrition from the T Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies via Cornell, and is certified in the Starch Solution. She is a board member of the plant based Nutrition Support group passionate about lifestyle medicine. Doctor Davis offers telehealth appointments through Lovelife telehealth, aiming to provide comprehensive care and guidance to individuals seeking a healthier lifestyle. Well, please welcome my friend, Doctor Nikki Davis. Hi, Nikki. Hi, Lauren. Thank you so much for having me. Sure. Can I call you Nikki? Is that okay? Absolutely. That is my name. So you're actually. So you are actually a legitimate rocket scientist on top of being a medical doctor. Is that right? Yes. So I worked on the space shuttle program for NASA, as a mechanical engineer in a previous life. And, and was not super passionate about it and actually was more passionate about health and nutrition. And so that's why I ended up going back and doing medical school, even though I was really sick of all the schooling already decided to go back. It was a lot. Yeah, I'm glad to be on the other side of it now. Yeah. So, what what exactly got you interested in the health side of things? What? Yeah. Well, I would say I would say that I've always been interested in health. Even as a teenager. Like, I remember being 13, 14 thinking, you know, what can I eat? How can I exercise to, like, feel my best and look my best? And so I was always interested in learning more about that. And that's when I started discovering that I felt better when I didn't eat animal products, and I felt better when I ate. You know what I would consider healthy? Like I saw a greasy hamburger and it just didn't look healthy to me, like just looking at it. And I knew that, like, broccoli was more healthy for me. So I just decided to start eliminating animal products at that time. And and I loved it. And so ever since then, I've just been kind of on this quest, this journey to learn more and more about health and what we can do personally to improve our own health. You know, just feel better, look better, live longer. So that's that's really has always been there. And I will say I got into engineering because I was just really good at math and science, and I was looking for what can I do with my life, what my career be. Right. I was 18 when I had to choose. Yeah. And, so then I got into that, you know, working as an engineer. But in the background was always this, excitement, this passion about health. And so then as I started getting older, I thought, now that I've got to do something different, if I'm going to change careers, I've got to do it now, because at some point I'm going to say I'm too old to change. Right? So I just thought, how old were you? Yeah. Let's see. I would have been 30, 32, maybe 32. When you. To. When I go to school with engineering. Yep. Quit engineering. And then I ended up. Well, I had to do some prerequisite first before even being able to apply to medical school. So by the time I got into med school, I was 35. Oh, wow. When I started. So, so yeah, it was kind of like, well, it's now or never. So I left that engineering career even though it was a really, you know, it's a good job. I mean, it's like 40 hours a week. You never have to work nights or weekends. It's a good, good pay. But I just I was dreading Mondays. I was wishing away the time. It was no way to live. And I just I was so passionate about nutrition and health that I just thought, this is what I want my every day to be like. And so now, like, talking to you is exactly what I was imagining. Like these kinds of things, like not only working with patients, just being able to get out there and talk about it and do something that I feel excited about. Yeah, I don't know if I told you this, but my husband was like 47 or 48 when he went to law school. And, yeah. And he, I remember him saying, like, I just feel like it's too late. And, you know, I'm going to be like 52 when I graduate law school. And I'm like, well, you're going to be 52 anyway. Might as well have a law degree. And he's like, well, that's really true. And so, you know, it's not ever too late. I mean, I get how it seems too late. But you know, for anybody listening who's like, oh dang, I really ended up in the wrong profession. I mean. You can I say change it? I know I don't think it's too late for anyone, honestly. And I had the exact same thing that I would tell people like, I'm going to wake up one day and be 40. I might as well wake up and be a doctor who practices lifestyle medicine. You know, that's what I really, really want to do with my life. So I might as well be doing that because that time is going to go anyway. Yeah. So yeah. So I totally agree. Okay. So are you exclusively telehealth now? Well, so I, I would say mostly telehealth because I'm licensed in 12 states. So that's just the way that I can get, you know, a lot of patients is by seeing people from multiple states. But I do have an office in downtown Salt Lake City, where I live in Salt Lake City. So, so I have availability for people to see me who are local, who live near Salt Lake City, to be able to see me in person as well. Okay. And, is that John Mackey's company, the love. Lovelife. Love life. Yeah. Okay, I interviewed him, okay? I thought it was just. Yeah. Yeah, he was really fascinating. Isn't his story interesting? Yeah. Yeah, he really is. If you guys haven't listened to that podcast, you should go back and look for John Mackey's, interview, too. That was interesting. Okay, so there's a couple things that I want to specifically talk to you about today, because I just hear these things over and over from my friends. Like, I feel like every person has some kind of thyroid issue, so they either have Hashimoto's or thyroid. So first, can you tell me the difference between the two conditions. So sure. So so actually people can have different thyroid problems. The most common is called hypothyroid, which is just that you have a low amount of thyroid hormone. So your thyroid isn't functioning at its full capacity. That is the most common. And the most common cause of that is Hashimoto's, which is just an autoimmune disease. So it's your own cells attacking your thyroid. Okay. So that is the most common cause. And you can find out if that is what's causing you to have a low thyroid. By just checking those antibodies, there are two common antibodies that cause that, and then there's also hypothyroid, meaning your thyroid is kind of on overdrive. And so people will have either nodules or goiter that, you know, that are causing that. And then of course, there's thyroid cancers as well. So so that's one of the things that most primary doctors will check. You'll see on like an annual exam. They usually feel see if they feel any nodules or anything like that. And it's also very common to check a TSH which is thyroid stimulating hormone. And that's something that can tell you how your thyroid is functioning. Okay. Are there just like, symptoms if you're just going about your business and what what do you look out for? Yeah. So for low thyroid, hypothyroid, most of the time it's going to be you start noticing hair shedding or hair loss, dry skin, difficulty with sleep, feeling cold a lot. So it's like, no matter what you do, you're just feeling cold all the time. And then if you think about that, that's low thyroid. Kind of the opposite is is high thyroid. You know people with low thyroid sometimes can have issues with weight loss. High thyroid. It's like your metabolism is a little bit on overdrive, you know. And you might notice that, you know, your maybe your heart is racing more than it normally does. You know, your heart rate is higher. You know, you are, you feel like you just you can't calm down. Maybe you're having weight loss. That isn't expected, right? Yeah. So I would say those are kind of the most common. Okay. So, you know, a couple of, I guess my hair started shedding and I've always been cold, so I've always had that. But, you know, I couldn't figure it out. And then I did get a test the pts H test. And it was still in the normal range, but it was like not where my doctor wanted it. But then he was like, well, you probably need to get on, you know what? What is it like? It was like pig thyroid. And I was like, oh hell no, I'm not doing that. I can tell you that right now. I'm not taking pig thyroid. Yeah. And, I said, let me look into this a little. And I just kind of got a supplement. I meant to look at it before, but honestly, my hair stopped falling out. I also started taking iron. And then I got retested and my TSH number was perfect just from taking a supplement. I can look it up and put it in the show notes. What are what are common things that supplements would have in them for if you didn't want to take thyroid? Well, okay. So first of all, I don't recommend taking the medications that are pig derived at all. So whenever I have a patient who comes in on something like that, like armor, thyroid, I switch them over to the synthetic, I think that having it. Is that level says something. Levothyroxine leave. Okay. Yeah. They're almost close. I was. Almost close. It only took me four years to be able to, let's say those tricky medications. But, but yeah, so that is the most common one that people use. It works great. It's very consistent with how it works. And so that's what I usually recommend that people use levothyroxine. It's generic, it's inexpensive. And so but not everyone should be treated. So if your TSH was in the normal range, I would question who recommended you take a medication for that, because there is actually not good evidence to support treating someone with a normal TSH, no matter where it is on the normal level. Right? Because thyroid TSH can change, you know, it can be a little high and a little bit low, but the reason that that range is so big is because there is a big normal range. And and even if your TSH is a little bit high. So when you have low thyroid, your TSH is high. So it's the opposite okay. So it's stimulating hormone. It's the opposite of the thyroid hormone which is usually T4. We check free T4 or free T3. But so when your TSH is high that's saying that your thyroid hormone is probably low. But if you check it and it's not low, that's what we call subclinical hypothyroid. So it's just it's even though your test is off, your thyroid is kind of keeping up and it's doing okay. And even in that case it's not always the best idea to take a medication. So it's really important for it to be a case by case basis. Your age matters. How old are you? Because as you get older you tend to have lower thyroid. And so it's not always a good idea to take the medication. You know, there's always pros and cons to taking a medication. And that's where I talk to each specific patient on what are their specific levels. And does it make sense for them to medicate? I will say in most people who have true hypothyroid that it does make sense to medicate. You shouldn't not medicate if you know if you have been diagnosed with that. But it's but there is some nuance to it. So make sure that you're talking to a doctor who knows what they're doing. Yeah, I actually, yes, I knew and I knew a lot of that just because I used to work. I know just enough to be a little dangerous. I used to work in the, pharmaceutical industry adjacent to the pharmaceutical industry. So I, I was the director of advertising for a journal that went to compounding pharmacies. So I think there's a lot of compounded medications for thyroid, for thyroid. And so I would read about this on all the chat boards and, you know, I sort of knew that I shouldn't be getting medication for this. I was like, this is too early or not quite right. And so luckily I well, I investigate everything anyway. I'm not just going to take a medicine because my doctor says, and this was my ob gyn, by the way. So I was like, I don't know about this. And so like I said, I found this supplement and I just want to go back for one second because you said, or it's arm or thyroid, that's the pig. And do you remember armor hot dogs. It's like the same company, right? Oh, I don't remember armor. That's. Yes, armor hot dogs and armor thyroid. I don't know if it's the same company, but that tells me a lot. If they're making hot dogs and they're making pig thyroid. And. Listen, I could just be making this up. It could be total coincidence, but I'm going to look into that because that just freaks me out. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Yeah, that is but and by the way, even talk about kind of some of the things that can go into thyroid health. So the main one I would say is iodine. Right. Iodine is something that is necessary for thyroid health. So most people get plenty of iodine. You know salt is usually disguised right. Yeah. So most people get plenty of it. The only time that I've seen people have low iodine is in people who are really, really strict with their diet. So, you know, we know the SOS free acronym. So salt oil. Sorry if you are really careful with being salt free. Like, you know, you aren't even buying anything packaged that has salt in it and you're really not getting any salt in your diet. There's a chance that you could become iodine deficient. So, so I have had cases in which someone might have a TSH that's a little high. We check their iodine because they have a pretty strict diet and if their iodine is low, then we supplement. And then sometimes the thyroid actually does fine and they don't need to be on medication for that. That's pretty rare that that happens. But the other problem that can happen is people say, oh, I iodine is important. I need to make sure I take iodine every day. And now they're supplementing iodine that they don't need. They're getting too much. And actually too much. Iodine can also cause low thyroid. So low iodine, high iodine both can cause problems. So like I said, most people get plenty in their diet. And you can check it. So you can ask your doctor to check it. But the best test is a 24 hour urine collection test. So you collect your own urine for 24 hours. So it's not the most fun test. And I usually don't test it in people unless they're having thyroid issues. And there's a good reason why they could become like that. There is a good reason why they are iodine deficient that they could be okay. I wonder if that was what was going on with me, because I did just start using a little more iodized salt. And then taking this particular supplement. But I stopped taking the supplement and I also started taking iron. Like I said, I think, I don't know if that had something to do with my hair falling out as well, or just my age, just hormones, you know, I mean, just all the things. So there are a lot of things that hair shedding. Exactly. Yeah. There are a lot of things. So it's not guaranteed that it's just because you have hair shedding doesn't mean, oh, automatically have a thyroid issue. There is some of that. I mean, we know, you know, with pregnancy, you know, your hair gets nice and full and beautiful, and then you have the baby and then you shed. Right. And so it does happen in cases of kind of traumatic events, in a way. You know, stress or illness that can happen. So realizing that there are a lot of different things. And so if you are having hair shedding, talk to your doctor so you can kind of work through all those things. Iron is something that also can cause it. So so who knows. But I'm glad that it fixed. You know, it's fixed no matter what I was going to get. It was. Okay. So have we covered hair? I don't want to see less of it. Thank you. But, so do we cover the thyroid pretty thoroughly? Is there anything else that we need to look out for or. No, I think that's I mean, knowing about iodine and and that, you know, the synthetic version and leave it there. Roxanne is is really what works best for most people. Oh, and the other thing I would say is, most people don't need T3. So your body converts T4 to T3. And so sometimes I'll see people on both T4 and T3. Most people don't need T3, you just need T4 and your body will naturally convert that to T3. So so that is something that I've seen more often if you go see like a natural path or something like that, sometimes they want to have you on both, but there's really not good evidence to support it unless over time you're just your T3 is just out of range and you're still having symptoms. Okay. So say again the test set that people might need for this. Yeah. So the one that I would start with would be TSH. Now if you want to add on a free T4, you know, that's the actual thyroid hormone that you can test as well. And there is a test where it's just both of those together and, and it's pretty inexpensive. So sometimes people will test just the TSH by itself. But you could do the free T4 if you want to see what that actual thyroid hormone level is. Okay. And then only the free T3 as needed. Most people we don't need to check that. Okay. And and iodine maybe check your iodine. Level as well. So that one is that 24 hour urine test. So it really is something that, you know only if it seems like it's needed okay. Yeah. And then are there certain foods that help the thyroid. No not necessarily. I would say in general, what I have noticed is that people who follow a low fat, wholefood, plant based diet tend to need less medication over time. So if they are on 100 micrograms of levothyroxine and they're eating more of a standard American diet, they switch over to a whole foods plant based diet. I have seen where their dose actually decreases over time, so maybe they end up with 75 micrograms per day or 50, whereas typically most people I would say are on 100 and sometimes it don't, you do increase it over time. So I think that the thyroid just works better when your overall body health is better. You know, your blood's moving nice and freely, and you know, it's not getting gunked up with all the fat in the diet and all that. Yep. Okay, good. That sounds good. Now let's talk about, type two diabetes, because that's also another thing that I'm starting to see in, in a lot of my friends. I think that, you know, you get into your mid 50s and I mean, things just start going unless, unless you really are on some kind of I mean, even if you are on a health journey, things can happen. But like you said, I think the more you try to eat whole foods, the better. But let's talk about type two diabetes. What would be some of the symptoms to let you know that, hey, maybe something's wrong and I might have type two diabetes. Yeah. Well, I mean, thankfully you can test and try to figure it out early. Once you've gotten to the point where your blood sugar is so high that it's causing you symptoms, a lot of times it'll be excess thirst. Because you've just got so much sugar, you know, running through your blood that that causes you to be thirsty. And then when you're really thirsty and you're drinking more water than you're urinating a lot more. So I would say those are kind of some of the more common first things that people notice is just excessive thirst and, frequent urination. You know, and then of course, as it progresses, then you can have more symptoms over time. But early, you know, early on as you maybe have prediabetes, it's not really super obvious. There isn't really I mean, you may not have a high enough blood sugar to even notice a difference. And so that's where you can check your fasting blood sugar. And that's on a that's on a very typical annual lab panel that your primary doctor would get called a comprehensive metabolic panel that includes glucose. So if that glucose number is high then that would flag your doctor to then check a hemoglobin A1, C, which is just looking at your average blood sugar over the last three months. And so then you're looking at the hemoglobin A1 C to C. Are you in the normal range which is below 5.7%. Prediabetes which is 5.7 to 6.4%. And then if you're at 6.5% or above, that's technically diabetes, type two diabetes. Okay. And, what? Well, I know what you're going to say, but what what would you do if you were diagnosed with type two diabetes? Yeah. So the you know, the most obvious thing to do is to change the thing that is causing you to have this problem in the first place. So why is that blood sugar rising in your blood? And a lot of people think, oh, it's because I'm eating too much sugar or I'm drinking too much sugar. I'm certainly not advocating for drinking Coke all day or soda all day. But more often than not, it's not the excess sugar in the diet. It is the excess fat in the diet that is really the problem. So where do we get most of the fat in the diet? Well, it's animal products and oils for the most part in America. So if you get rid of the animal products and the oils you tend to eat a lower fat, more plant heavy diet. And that is what I found that usually, well, reverse diabetes, depending on how far along, you know, how long you've had it, how many years you've had it. But it tends to be that it seems like, when you are storing excess fat in the body, sometimes it your body will put fat into cells where it normally doesn't have fat. So unlike muscle cells. And when that happens, you know, if you are, say you're getting up in the morning and your body needs to make some energy, it's looking for sugar in the blood, glucose out of the blood, to then put into those muscle cells to make energy, to make ATP and if the fat is so gunked up in there that your body can't get that glucose into the cell, insulin won't work. Then that's what causes that blood sugar to rise. It just can't get out of your bloodstream. So, you know, drinking a lot of sugar and eating a lot of processed sugar is certainly not healthy. But it does seem like the higher fat diet is really the main contributor to developing prediabetes and type two diabetes. Yeah, and that's the thing that I think people are so and even the doctors, you know, if you go to the doctor, they're like, oh, you can't eat sugar and you got to watch your carbs. And that just makes me crazy because and that's what my friends will tell me. And then I'll, you know, try to explain. It's not really the sugar, although the sugars aren't great for you, but it's really the excess fat and that. So, you know, it's just this whole just a bunch of misinformation that's out there and so I think people who listen to this are probably familiar with the whole food plant based diet. But just in case you're not. So what we're talking about is eating like legumes, like bean peas, lentils, whole grains, like brown rice, quinoa, oats. We're talking about eating fruits and vegetables. And yes, you can eat fruit right with us. Yes, yes. Because I hear that from my friends, too. I can't eat fruit. I'm like, yes, you can. You can eat fruit. And then, you know, maybe some nuts and seeds, but you want to keep it fairly low fat. But, you know, and that sounds like nothing that sounds like you're going to starve to death. But out of those things, you can make tacos and burgers and pizza and salads and bowls. And, I mean, you can read pancakes. Like, I probably eat more things now. And to say macaroni and cheese for lunch, you know, it wasn't really cheese, but it was like a thing I made out of, you know, some, in my in my Vitamix, in my blender. I put, like, some, chickpeas and nutritional yeast and some vegetable broth, and I put a quarter cup of cashews and I put, you know, just a spices and limit. I mean, and other things like that. But I mean, it it ends up making a cheese sauce, and it's a cheese sauce that doesn't make you sick or unhealthy. So, you know, that's the thing that I always want people to really remember. It's not a diet of deprivation. It's a diet where you or I hate to say diet. It's a lifestyle where you really get to eat all the things that you're afraid to eat. Normal life. Like. Yeah, like. I just mentioned pancakes and macaroni cheese. I would never eat that before. Like, that's child's food. And even though it's very yummy, and so I feel like there's a lot of freedom to eating this way because then, you know, you just stay healthy. And I put, like, a ton of broccoli when the water's boiling and in the noodles and my noodles are like lentil noodles or lentil lentil macaroni and cheese or macaroni, and then when it's finished boiling and it's almost ready, I just dump like a half a bag of frozen broccoli in there and just mix it up and then drain it all, and then put the cheese sauce on. So it's really good. You can make it healthy. So, yeah. What do you have anything else to say about type two diabetes? Yeah. Well, I guess the other thing I want to make sure that people are aware of is, you know, a lot of times you'll go to the doctor and if you get diagnosed with pre-diabetes or type two diabetes, their first recommendation is to eat low carb and first of all, we as doctors do not get nutrition training. So there's and there's really not good evidence for eating low carb for diabetes. If you're really wanting to reverse it, that's not going to work. Okay. So so and then the other thing is, you know, we talk about sugar, but there's so many different like you mentioned, fruit. You know, we shouldn't be putting fruit in the same place. That table sugar is right. Fruit and table sugar are not the same thing. And the other thing is also when we're talking about carbohydrates, carbohydrates are what your body runs off of. Carbohydrates have this bad name. You know, carbs, you know, carbs are bad for you, right? But plant foods contain carbohydrates, and that's what it's glucose in chains. And that's what your body uses to make energy. That's its preferred fuel source is glucose. So when we're talking about sugar, you know, you have to be careful because eating a potato that's rich in glucose is fabulous for you and actually really good for diabetes control and reversal. Right. And and so and people will think like, oh, well, you know, a donut is, is high in carbohydrates, but actually it's like, you know, mostly fat. It's deep fried. And that's, that's the problem with the donut is it's a, it's a fat and it's processed, you know, so thinking about where, you know, what is sugar there. So you just have to be careful because carbohydrates in their whole form in plant foods are health promoting. It's not dangerous. It's not a problem. You know, if you're looking to remove excess sugar from the diet, think about the process sugars that are in your diet. Because a lot of times those processed sugars are married with high fat as well, right? It's the pastries and it's the donuts and that's the cookies. That's what I think. Yes I think that's a very good point that like when I think about you know people want to cut carbs in their I guess in my mind they're talking about like white bread and donuts like you said, pastries and things and that's good. Yes. Cut those. But don't be afraid of all carbs. They're not they're not created equal. Like you said, the brown rice, the oats, things like that. And the sugar. That's a really good point to, like, I make, you know, I do make cookies and things like that, but I make it with date paste or whatever, which are just dates blended up with water and, or, you know, actually, they even make it now date, sugar, date paste, date, sirup. The date lady I use all. Yes. I. Know my pantry's filled so stuff. Yeah. I know, me too. And that's so good and it's so good for you. So yes, there is a big difference between just table sugar, white table sugar and and all that. So that's a good point. Anything else that we should cover about that? I don't think so. Yeah. I, let's talk about let's talk about sleep because I feel like that's another area where people are. Why do we sleep so poorly and why what can we do about it and tell us what we need? Like the real deal on sleep? How much do we really need and what do we need to do? Okay, so most people need 7 to 9 hours. That's most people. There are some people who truly just genetically need less than that. It's it's not very common. So most people really do need more than that. Why do we sleep so bad? It's, you know, I mean, if you think about the way that we live now versus, you know, how we evolved to live, you know, we didn't eat basically after it got dark, you know, our eyes adjusted to the light of day as the sun came up in the morning, as the sun went down in the evening. And that sets your circadian rhythm so that your body knows when it's time to go to bed. And we had a pretty consistent bedtime, and it was dark and it was cold. So now think about now we've been thrown into this environment where we have these devices that have light coming off of them all the time. And so now that's giving us this. Our bodies, this false idea that, oh, wait, the sun's still up. Let's, you know, we're up now. And then we're in houses that are lit at night, and we're working late at night. Right? So we're using our brain late at night, and maybe our houses are warmer and there are all sorts of lights that are on all over your, your bedroom that are kind of keeping that, that light all the time. So thinking about like, just as a human, how did we get good sleep? And it was like going back to kind of those basics. So making sure that your room is dark, you know, making sure that you're not having screens on late into the evening, that you're having that wine down routine, that you're not working late at night and then expecting to be able to fall asleep within five minutes of being on your computer late at night. And, you know, and I'm guilty of all this, too. And of course, I'm guilty it. Yeah. You know, I don't sleep as well when I am on my computer late at night, so but being aware of it and then also consistency, having that consistent bedtime, making sure going to the bed about the same time every night and then not eating too late at night. You have a full stomach, you've been eating late and that's something that a lot of people do. You know, you get home, you've had a long day. Maybe it's been stressful and you want to reward yourself and you want to sit in front of the TV and you want to just munch on food all night. That's going to make it hard to sleep, not only from watching TV, but also eating late. You know, now your body has to go through digesting food while it's trying to do the other things that it needs to do while you're sleeping, which is, you know, remove toxins and clean out cells and, and all those things. So the other thing is to just try to stop eating completely 3 to 4 hours before you go to bed. And that will help you sleep better to yeah. I know, I think my husband, I shouldn't call him out on this, but he is. He's one of those people. He does not get a lot. I mean, he probably gets about six, seven hours of sleep a night. I mean, I'm happy if he gets seven, but a lot of times he gets like six. He goes to bed really late and he eats too, like he'll just snack. He's been trying not to do that. You're doing good. And if you're listening, he's, he's trying to. But no, he does like whole. He know like he doesn't eat a lot during the day. And then he'll get a glass of wine and start watching TV and then just get up. I don't I'll make a piece of pizza and he's like, oh, I got to stop doing this. But he's saying, I got to stop doing this for like ten years, so I don't I think he enjoys it, which I get. I mean, it is enjoyable. So yeah. What do you think about what do you make about all this, like magnesium stuff now, does that is that helpful? Have you heard about it I think yeah. I mean. Often. Yeah. I mean, you know, I will say that the, the data isn't expansive on that. I don't think that it's there's really great evidence for using it. If it's something that you've used and you're like, oh, finally I can sleep, I, I don't really see the harm in it. But certainly the lifestyle measures, I think, make the biggest difference. And, you know, taking some kind of a supplement, you know, that is not really getting down to the core issue, which is, you know, late night eating or screen time or, you know, stress. I mean, you really got to get down to kind of those key things. And once you fix those, then sleep does come better. I keep asking this question to different people and I keep just hoping they'll say, yeah, it's fine that you snuggle up in your bed and you watch late night shows and whatever I love, that's my favorite thing is just to get it. I take a, I take a bath and so I'm relaxed and I get in my sometimes I even do meditation in the bathtub. I'm totally relaxed. Then I get in my bed and I watch Seth Meyers or something, and then I'm like. So you've done this. Like cracking up and. Then and then. I know. And then I'm watching Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, you know, Stephen Colbert, but I'm just, like, snuggled up in my bed, laughing my ass off. And then I'm like, okay, well, now I'm awake. It's. Yeah, exactly. I keep thinking somebody is going to say yes, you're doing exactly the right thing, Lauren. That's that's what you should be doing. Well, laugh is good for you. Just can't seem to get that. Yes. You know, it makes it hard. I mean, when you when you've kind of gotten used to doing things a certain way, it's hard to break that. I mean, just like you said, with your husband and eating late at night and watching, you know, staying up late, your body gets used to that. And so, for instance, if he's not eating as much during the day, okay, your body's still needs those calories and your body is going to break and your body gets used to getting them at that time of night. So now all of a sudden you're starving and you're eating late at night because that's what your body is used to. So to break that cycle, you really are going to be uncomfortable for a while. You know, going to bed early, not eating, feeling hungry. I know last night he got into bed at midnight and I had just fallen asleep for not for not doing the right things at our house, but I can tell you that. But I was like, oh my God, what are you doing in bed? So I was like, are you sick? And he's like, no, I'm just tired. I mean, he literally never gets in bed before, like two, three, four in the morning. I does you know, I have to say. So the burn are not very good with their routine, but I will say that both of us, once we get to sleep, are really good sleepers. And, So I guess, I guess if we were suffering, we would probably make some changes. That's probably why we're not highly motivated. Right? Are you a good sleeper? I am a really good sleeper. Yes, I love sleep. Sleep. I do too. But I but you know, I think that when your overall lifestyle is good, you know, you get daily movement and, you know, you're getting outside and being in nature. Like, that's one thing that I would say to change anything, just to get up in the morning and get some sunshine in your eyes. Not looking directly at the sun, of course, but just looking up at the sky and having that bright light so that it'll help you then be ready for bed later that evening. I mean, that starts to set things up for you is to get out, get that sunshine in your eyes in the morning. Oh, but you know, so but overall, if you if you're getting that movement, you're getting outside, you're getting in nature, you're eating a healthy diet that allows you to feel your best. You tend to sleep better, too. So, you know, we're talking about kind of these specific things that you can do to help with sleep. But the other stuff matters, too. Just having general overall wellness and health will help you sleep better, too. Oh, that's good news. I mean, there's there's no downside to eating, well, I guess, or to exercising and having a good, good lifestyle. That's what I'm hearing. Can I ask how old you are? I am 48. 48. Oh, right. Have me. Yeah. Have you start. You're just always. So. So pretty. So pretty naked. Have you started going through menopause yet? I've been through it. I've already been through, What? Yeah, I went early. It's it's kind of in my family that the women kind of go through early. But I will say, I didn't even know I didn't have any symptoms at all. I mean, it just happened. And then I'm like, am I ever going to get a period again? Nope, I guess not. And then tested. And yeah, sure enough, in menopause. Oh well, okay, so I just started going through menopause. I'm going to be 57 like in August. Wow. So you're like a late one. I'm a late bloomer. Yeah. I know, and that's been my experience. Like I, I haven't had a period since April and, I was just talking about I'm sorry. I keep talking about my experiences on here, but, you know, it's just, everybody was probably sick of hearing me say, I haven't gone through menopause yet. Now, they're probably sick of me saying, yeah, I'm going through it, but I feel like I'm sailing through it. I did get a couple of warm flashes like the first couple of weeks, but they were literally just warm. It wasn't even hot. I was like, oh, this is kind of nice because I'm always cold. But it was coming on and I was like, oh, it just like, okay. All of a sudden I'm warm. Okay, now I'm fine. But that was a it lasted like a week or two. And honestly, I haven't had one symptom knock wood. And I feel like I, I wonder if that's also lifestyle related to things. Absolutely. I mean, I've, I have talked to a lot of women, you know, who are either not or are plant based. And it seems like women who are whole plant based tend to do better through menopause. And then we tend to eat more soy products. Soy is really good for helping with those, like hot flashes. But you know, for me, I mean, I literally had no idea that I was even going through it at all besides just not having a period. Wow. So. Okay. Yeah. So, boy, if you want another. Thing, if people are. Yeah. People are having to struggle with the menopause, maybe try to eat a whole food plant based diet. We're coming at you from all directions today. Yeah. We are about trying to convince you to eat a whole food plant based diet if you're not already. Okay, so what if people want to start trying to eat a whole food plant based diet and they just don't know what to wear to start? Like, what do you recommend? Well, I guess if you're brand new to it, you have no idea. Then maybe doing like a jumpstart program is not a bad idea. You know, there are plenty of programs out there. I know PQM, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine has a 21 day kickstart. There's one out of Rochester. It's called the Rochester Lifestyle Medicine Institute. They have a jumpstart program that's two weeks. There is a cost to it, but it's really inexpensive. That one's great because they give you, you know, a meal plan and grocery list and education and teaching. You like how to cook without oil. You know, we talked about oil and how it's really high in fat. So finding something like that, you know, kind of getting that, like basic information down and then thinking about, you know, that it doesn't necessarily have to be overnight. You know, I tell people, just start with one thing. Like, if you just start with breakfast, it's so easy to eat a plant based breakfast, get that really down and set. And once you have that in place, maybe it's a big bowl of oatmeal with berries and bananas, some flax on there. And then once you have that, then you can start branching out like, okay, what am I going to do for lunch and, and get to where you found some things that you really enjoy and keep track of that, and then just keep making them over and over again. Yep. I know I eat the same thing a lot of times. You know, but yeah, never just make it simple. Oh, yeah. Exactly. And it. Just, you know, the thing is, it's like you're already eating some plant based things. If you eat spaghetti, that's, you know, maybe you just make your pasta a little healthier. Instead of white pasta, you could use whole wheat pasta or a lentil pasta. I mean, so you're already doing some things. Maybe if you eat, you know, bean tacos, you're already eating, you know, something that's plant based that you're not even realizing. If you just make sure that, you know, if you get a canned refried beans or something, make sure it doesn't have lard or fat in it. Make sure it's fat free. That it's vegetarian, you know, things like that. So it's a lot easier than you think. Don't don't get hung up on these things. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to. You don't have to always have, like, a size bowls and grain bowls. I mean, it really can be like, I already enjoy. And how can I make that into a plant based person? It's very easy. To. It is easy. Especially like hummus. Everybody likes hummus. You can make a sandwich. You can, you know, on some Ezekiel bread or some Dave's killer bread. Put a lot of veggies on it. I make French fries in the air fryer all the time or the oven, so. Oh, that's my favorite. My favorite I know. Yeah, I cut them like really, really thin. Really skinny. Oh yeah. That's why you're making me hungry. It's lunch time here. I know. Okay. So what's your best piece of advice for aging? Well, oh, I would say, Zest for life. And I know we've been talking a lot about, like, Whole Foods, plant based, and, of course, like, I'm always going to default to that for a lot of different reasons. And I think, you know, if we look at the blue zones, we know that people who eat more plant foods live longer, healthier lives, but people who are excited about life and positive about life and just, you know, kind of live like you're always in your 20s. I feel like that is a really good way to live through. And, I mean, that's how my dad did it. My dad lived a really long life, and he always was like the young guy who happened to be in his 90s, you know? So that's I mean, that's that's what I would say is that's a really good way to age is to just be excited about life. So your dad lived into his 90s? Hope. When, is your mom still alive? So I a lot of times asset like, what did you learn from watching your parents age. And so I guess you're saying that you know to be excited to did he try new things. Did he listen to current music. I mean yes he always was trying new things, going on adventures and just, you know, being, I guess, living like you're young, not letting age stop you from do it. I mean, so, for instance, when we were kids. So, you know, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, we have the Great Salt Lake. So it's a huge lake that's very salty. And, so you can, like, float in it. And when we were kids, we had a sailboat and we would sail on the Great Salt Lake. And it's just just wonderful memory and has as he got older, yeah. You know, and actually, unfortunately, the lake is starting to dry up, so it's not as great of a place to be anymore. But he decided to transition from a sailboat to a land sailor. So a land sailor is a sailboat on wheels. So it's got to sail and, you know, you sit down in it, but it's got wheels. And so you find a big flat area and we have this place near us called the Salt Flats. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's in a lot of movie. I've heard of. It, yeah. So this is huge wide open area. That's just salt. It's gorgeous. It's white. It's beautiful. And he had to land sailors so we would go out and get going like 40 or 50 miles an hour just zooming around these salt flats. And he's doing this. And I mean, he did this until the year before he died. He was 92. So he's putting together this land sailor. He's getting out there. He's flying around. And I mean, he started it probably when he was in his, I don't know, late 70s when he started land sailing. So, you know, things like that, that it's never too late to just try new things. And, you know, he could have easily just been sitting in a chair all day and watching TV. But no, you wanted to get out and do things. And I think it helped him live a longer, better life. Yeah, I think, oh my gosh. Yeah, that's what we were talking about at the beginning. It's not too late to do different things. I think that's really good. Do you have just a best piece of advice in general? My best piece of advice would be to find what it is that makes you want to live a longer, healthier life. You know, a lot of people will say to me, I want to reverse diabetes, or I want to lose weight, or I want to get off these medications. But unless you really know why, it's hard to have them motivation to really do it. And that why does it need to be anything grandiose? I mean, it could just be that you want to see your grandchild graduate or you want to be able to spend time in the garden and you want to do that for another ten years? Yeah. Whatever that is. You know, what is it? And I mean, we kind of get back to this, like, excitement for life, but what is it that gets you out of bed in the morning? What's. And I think that that for me, is following that and not being afraid to make big changes in your life. If you're not feeling that, if you're not excited about life and excited about waking up and doing something in the morning, you know, not being afraid to just go after it. Yeah, that's good advice. That's good. You you did it, Nikki, I didn't. Which public person do you admire for the way they're aging? Well, you. Me? Yes. You look fabulous. Are you kidding me? Oh, you're so sweet. Oh, my gosh. Only I could look like you. You know, in nine, ten years. My goodness, look at you, There you go. That's the best answer anybody's ever given. Yes! 100. You scored. Okay, perfect. We don't have to ask that anymore. Do you have do you have a favorite health or beauty product? Let's see, you know. Okay, so first of all, it's plants. So eating plants is my beauty product, right? Yes. That's my skincare routine. It's the fountain of youth. It's all of them. Right. But as far as specific products, I really like Pacifica, and I use that for lotions and things like that. It's a vegan brand. And then the other one that I really love is, just like a lip balm that is called hurrah. It's ecru. It's made in Montana. So that's where I originally found it, because that's where I did. My residency was in Montana. But they make all sorts of different fun lip balms, like, you know, watermelon and huckleberry. And so I'm always huckleberry. I always have them like stuff. In fact, I've got one right here, like, just in case I need it. My oh. My gosh. Green apple. Yeah. How fun. Green apple. That's great I know I love I love a good lip balm. I have those on my lips all the time. Always have something on. And then what's your favorite concert you've ever been to? Oh, okay. Lauren, I've been to so many concerts and this one is hard to decide. I think I would have to go with this fall season. Have you heard of this fall season? So what are you saying? No. Are you saying, like, okay. It's a band? Heels? Well, yeah, I like, things as. Well as season. The swell season. Oh. So the way that I found out about them was there is a movie that played at Sundance, and Sundance is in Park City, Utah, so I've been able to go see a bunch of Sundance movies in my time. That's awesome. And this movie won, like some kind of best award, Best of Fest. And so as a local, I can go see it for free. And this movie is called once. And once is about the these people that come together and basically create this band and the music that they make is amazing. And the story is really amazing. And because they were so good together, they ended up actually making a band called The Swell Season. And so I've seen them several times. They've come through Salt Lake, but and they've won a war. I mean, they won an Academy Award for one of their songs, so it's not like they're totally unknown. Wow. I've. Never heard of them. Yeah. And you may recognize, some of their songs. You're like, oh, wait. No, I have heard that before. Okay. But yeah. So live seeing Swell Season live at Red Butte Garden in Salt Lake City was probably the best concert. Okay, you know what? I'm going to look out for them. I love I we go to concerts all the time. That's like, my favorite thing is to see live music and I'm in Austin, Texas, and we have South by Southwest here, which is much like, Sundance, you know, we get to films and it's film and music. Yeah. And so we get, we go to the films in, like, you just walk in and you never know what you're going to see. And, during South, I, I love it, and I've seen some really great films and I've seen some mediocre films, but, you know, I love it. And then, I love that you went to see the band after that, but I'm going to I'm going to check it out because I love seeing new bands that I've never heard of. Yeah, well, go. See heard of everything. No. Go watch, go see. Because I don't. Watch the movie called. Homeland. So can you watch that online? I guess you could. Pay for. A line. Once. Okay. How long ago did you see it? Probably 15 years ago. It came out. Oh, okay. Okay, so it's not recently. Okay. I'll try and hold that down and then see. Swell season. There you go. Wolf. Thank you for everything, doctor. Nikki, you're the best. I just love talking to you. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been so much fun. All right. Take care. Okay. Thanks. Bye bye. Bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.