Maggie Gallant: Is Vanity Bad? The Uncomfortable Truth About Wanting to Look Good

This is one of those conversations that feels like sitting down with two smart, funny friends who say the things you’re thinking.

In this episode, Lauren is joined by Maggie Gallant, a former stand-up comic and owner of the Truly Terrific Tea Company, for a candid conversation about aging, beauty standards, and the often-complicated choices women face as they age.

Maggie opens up about her recent cosmetic procedure—why she chose to do it, and the unexpected emotions that came with it. She and Lauren dig into the tension between wanting to feel good in your skin and the pressure to look a certain way, especially as you age. They explore how much of that decision is personal and how much is shaped by a culture that still struggles with women aging.

If you’ve ever thought about doing “a little something,” if you’ve felt conflicted about how you’re aging, or if you’re just tired of pretending it’s all fine—this conversation is for you.

Find Maggie at https://trulyterrifictea.co/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/trulyterrifictea/

Follow us and reach out at:
Email: lauren@agelikeabadassmother.com
Facebook: @WellElephant
Instagram: @laurenbernick_well_elephant

#AgingLikeABadass, #CosmeticProcedureJourney, #RealTalkOnAging, #WomenOver40, #ComediansGettingReal, #BodyImageAfter40, #MiddleAgeMakeover, #AgingWithConfidence, #WomenSupportingWomen, #NaturalAgingVsTweaks, #GenX,

Transcript

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Okay, friends, this is a big one. I am joined by my long time friend from my stand up comedy days, Maggie Gallant. We dive into her recent cosmetic procedure. It's one that neither one of us can pronounce. So don't even ask me. And it brought up a swirl of emotions that came along with her wanting to tweak something. This conversation opened up so many thoughts for me that I actually rewrote the intro to this podcast. If you've ever wrestled with should I age naturally or should I do a little something to feel better? You need to hear this episode. And this might even be one that you want to watch on my YouTube channel. We get very honest. While you're there, drop a comment. I would love to hear your take on this. And if you're new here, please listen to the podcast episode about how I reverse my heart disease and lost 20 pounds by eating a whole food plant based diet. I'm posting easy, delicious meal ideas regularly to my YouTube channel, so please subscribe so you don't miss any. And of course, you can always reach me at Lauren at age like a badass mother. Com you know I love hearing from you and I will answer you back. And as always, I appreciate you listening. Hi friend, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. From rebels and rule breakers to wellness warriors and wise women. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing, and we're not even close to finished. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Maggie Gallant, also known as the British woman, grew up in southeast England, now living in Austin, Texas. Maggie founded the Truly Terrific Tea Company to create authentic and fun tea parties and events for any occasion. As an experienced event planner, Maggie brings creativity, an exceptional eye for detail and a great team to every party. But I've known her from my days as a stand up comic. We've been friends for over 20 years. She's here today because she recently had a cosmetic procedure which just shocked the hell out of me. I didn't think anything about aging bothered her. We started talking about it and I said, save it for the podcast because we have to have this honest conversation. So please welcome my hilarious and talented friend Maggie Gallant. Hello. Thrilled. I'm so delighted. I'm so delighted you're here. So I guess we should probably just start by talking about our how we met, because it's it's fun, right? I mean, I think it was fun. I think that, I mean, probably like you. I can't believe that we ever did that. That was a pretty big chunk of our kind of our lives, but a pretty significant part of it. Yeah, it was crazy. Doing stand up. Doing like. Yeah, I think about that now. And I'm like, how did I ever do that? That's just ballsy. And we actually met in this workshop. We we met. So mastery the mastery. So we met in this workshop and it was called the mastery. And, I don't know why. I was just, like, called to do it. I had to be there. And now I know it was to meet you, to do stand up. But I remember Andy and I got in a big fight that weekend because I was gone all weekend and I had, you know, three small children. And he's like, what are you doing? We, you know, you don't have time for this. And I was like, I have time for you just, you know, take care of the kids. We got this big fight. He's like, what are you doing? And later he told me he's like, I'm really glad you did stuff like that, because at the time, you know, I just thought it was crazy. But then I came to realize you kind of kept yourself all these years. You didn't lose yourself because you kept up with your interests. And so I think he was grateful. But we we met in this crazy mastery. And I remember that Van Brooks, who ran it, said, you might not know why you're here, but you were meant to be here for this reason, and I, I think I was meant to be there with you. I always remember that one piece of one thing. I mean, there were a lot of things that he said. But I always remember him saying, if you don't fail you on interesting. And it's so true and it's so good and that that has carried me because that sort of embracing and just, you know, you know when we would laugh, remember when somebody screwed up and we'd all like clap and cheer for them. I mean I still I still do that with people. I think it's, it was a, it was a, it was a great piece of advice. But I also remember standing up in front of you all and just being in floods of tears. Oh, yeah. I remember you started crying and. Then it was. I started crying and I didn't know why I was crying. You just crying because you were crying. I don't know what happened. It was crazy. He also said, who are you to deprive the world of your gifts? Remember that. And yeah, we did. I remember we did. We had to make up a play and like, I think there was like six of us. And we ended up doing The Boy with No head. It had to be like an inspirational play, like somebody has to overcome something. And we decided this guy should have no head. And we did it to the theme of The Brady Bunch. Such talented. Attitude. Here's the story of a boy with no head to remember. Okay? Please don't. Please don't share any more of this. And then, and then I he said, what is something that you've always wanted to do? But you've been afraid. And I said, stand up. And he said, okay, you're going to go off with Maggie. She's done stand up a few times and you're going to write a whatever three minute set, and you're going to perform it in two hours. And I thought I was going to shit my pants, but I did. We did it. And then I started doing stand up, and we had.

Quite open mics at like 10: 6:07

00 at night and were we and then get out of there at one in the morning. Oh yeah. Well I know for. Three minutes on stage. For three minutes, but then, but we also kind of made it a little bigger than that. We weren't just doing open mic. You said, well you did well. Well you opened for Maria Bamford. You did. I mean, and if somebody else. Yes you did, did I? Yes, we we both. You're on your TV star. Yes. No, we both, we both did quite well. And, you know, for what we were taking on it. Like what? We were like 35, 38 years old when we started, which is a little bit, you know, older for, for a stand up comic at the. Yeah. I mean, looking back, it doesn't seem old at all, which I guess is perspective, but, what else? Is there anything else that you remember from those days, from the stand up days? I don't know, I mean, it just I mean, it amazes me now because like for a tiny exhibition, when we first started out, that the amount of time that I would spend driving to places and standing around places, I mean, I used to go to San Antonio for the open mic on Saturday night and I would leave the house like 1030 to get down there at midnight, you know, drive home at two in the morning. I mean, poor Eric, my poor, long suffering husband. And I was smoking like, come in stinking so you could be like, have you been smoking like. No, it was very smoky clubs. It was smoky. But I mean, it was fun, like doing the funniest person and, Funniest person. Competitions. I mean. We did the competition. The. Funniest person in. Boston, van said. And that whole, like, do something that scares you and that that did, didn't it? I mean, it sometimes I think this real power of standing up on a stage and making people laugh, and there is nothing, I mean, for me, there is nothing in the world like the high that you get when a joke really hits like really high. So you have to wait and you write that love, nothing like that. But equally nothing as humiliating as performing on stage. And then that walk off the stage through the crowd to the bunch of comics at the back who are loving you. Every second of you humiliate their jerks. Anyone wanting to try stand up, please give it a go. It's great. Yeah. So yeah, it was. It was definitely, a moment in time and and something. I'm just very grateful that I did because, you know, it took some balls and it gave me a lot of training. There's nothing that really scares me too much these days because. Right. Yeah. I stood up on stage by myself and told jokes. So. Yeah. Nothing so damn scary. Okay, so there are a couple reasons I wanted to talk to you today. And, you know, we were having coffee and and you. Well, first of all, the conversation started, I think because of your hairdresser. Right. What was that conversation? So I've had shorthand. Gosh. For a, I mean, a long time, like probably, I know, 25 years, and it's always in England. It was never really an issue. But when I came here, you know, everybody has everybody has long hair. I mean, it just you don't see so many too many people with with short hair. Anyway, I have a wonderful, wonderful her stylist. And when I go to her, I always end up doing the same thing. But I always, like, flick through the magazines or look online. I'm like, I short hair like, you know what's new in the short hair style? And this one was sort of divided into categories, and I think it was kind of face shape, but then it was a category age and there was a section for the over 60s. Well, I am now, I will be 60 on the 30th of December. So I mean, it is it's looming. So I look through them and they were all just dolls. I mean, there was nothing that was particularly inspiring. So I said to my I said to layer my stylist like what makes an over 60 haircut? And she said, well, you know, it's what we like. Easy sort of wash and go. I was like, oh, it's it's more cuts in that, like, I want to be able to do all that this way. Yeah, it's so crazy with it. I need the complicated head. Yeah. Because I don't want to be the wash and go. Wash and go. Grandma, you know I'm. Not ready. For that. No, she said that it was, like, uncomplicated. And you were like, well, give me the most complicated haircut you can. Yeah, I. Want, I want, I want complex layers. I want something that's not now sticking out all over the place. Used to be not easily recreated. That's where my body around the age of 60, I know. And then, you know, that got stuck. And then you went off on a rant and then, and then you started telling me about your, upcoming plastic surgery, which you've gotten. Well, I don't know if it's plastic surgery. What was the. Which just shocked me. What's it called? What did you get? I know I always I always get a little bit of a, when somebody says plastic surgery because I just think of it, I think I call it a procedure on my face. So I'll take my eyeglasses off even though I can't see. You can see. So. And, you. Well, hold on. This is a podcast and you can watch this on YouTube. But for anybody who's not watching, she had this procedure, like, what, two weeks ago? Three weeks ago. So you're still very post-op. Thank you. Okay, so describe what you had done. So my rights eye is that sleepy eye which a lot of people talk about and often happens when you age where it just, it just droops a little bit that the upper eyelids droops. And it wasn't significant, but it was enough that it bothered me in photos. And when I was on stage or just looking in the mirror. So I got a an upper. Pronouncing never a. We will say that very quickly. It's probably not that, just on the right eye. And then that's like an eyelid lift, right. Like they cut your, cut your eye eyelids. Yeah. And they just kind of take it up a little bit, take it up a notch. And then on the lower ones I had the sort of fat deposits that give you the sort of bags under the eyes. And they were quite dark. So they did the lower left red plastic on both and, and then resurfaced the whole thing to sort of get rid of some wrinkles. So you. Had some pretty deep wrinkles under your eyes too, like underneath the sheets that she. Was like, yep. Sun damage. So she did the, the fractional CEO to Lasering. So yeah. And and it, it looked hideous through at least the first week to ten days. It's clearing up now. You can still see a little bit of red. It's a little bit swollen. And it takes a they say it takes probably three months before you see the the full results. But it looks really good and you know the thick. But what it just shocked me because like I said I never heard you complain about it. Talk about it. You've never mentioned it. And when you're like, oh yeah, I'm getting this like next week. And I was like, what? Why, what? What's going on? Like, I didn't even know anything bothered you. And and I just thought you were one of those people who was just going to age the way you age and, you know, and so tell me your inner thoughts behind all that. I mean, I think I'm, I think I'm oh, gosh, we're going to get onto the vanity thing. And, but I'm going to say that I am quite vain. But I'll just put that aside for a minute. And I think that on my face that a that I, it's probably been getting gradually worse. And I had lost some weight because I was sick in February, so I lost some weight pretty quickly in the recovery from that. And the skin on my face started looking really like the wrinkles were far more pronounced. So at that point, and I had got the recommendation from a friend who had just had this procedure done, and she looked amazing. So I had already been in touch with that doctor and she was like, yeah, we could do this and this. And I said, well, that's interesting. It's a lot of money. Not sure, but I'll do it. And then I looked at myself sort of around February time, I was like, I just got to just got to do it. So if my friend hadn't recommended, I may not have even gone ahead with it, because you don't want to just sort of pick some random person who's like, yeah, I can do it. I'll lead amongst many other things. Whereas these people who are actually specialists, so fortunately they know what they're doing. But and then also, my God, one go ahead. No. God. I was going to say that, the Eric was going to have his done because his eyelids, his eyelid is very significant. And so I had sent him to the same place to go and talk to him, and his was affecting his peripheral vision, and he was going to have his done first. But early appointment came up, so I had mine done anyway. Long story short, he's now had his done and his. You won't be listening to this. He looks hideous. I mean, it really has been really has been hideous. So that's the recovery I would have been talking about, not the post off. She looks the bright, the bruising in black under his, The discoloration is taking a lot longer for him to recover. Because his was more intense. He had, like, hooded eyes. Or is that what you call them? Hooded? I think so. Were they so they. What did they do? They cut the inseam of the eyelid and just pull it up. Or what do they do? I don't know, I mean, honestly, this is sort of part of the issue that I didn't I mean, I usually research the heck out of everything before I do anything. This one, she sort of went, oh yeah, we can do this. And it's not that great. Pay my money. I did not fully realize quite what was involved with it, but yes, that's essentially what they have to do for him. They had to cut out a lot of the extra sort of eyelid. Is that the technical term? The extra? I think I. Did his stuff a. Bit. I think that you didn't research it because you didn't want to know. Right? You're like, let me just go into this and not knowing subconsciously. I suppose I. Can. I except afterwards I did all the research to look. Right after. Badly. I was recovering compared to everybody else. Get a tattoo done. Okay. Why does it look like this? Yours? It looks really good, like I said. Okay, I'm going to ask you a personal question. You could tell me to fuck off if you don't want answer, but, will you tell us how much it cost? Yes. So I think in total, with all of the sort of extra surgeon fees and facility fees, it was about 10,000. That's significant. Whereas, Eric, because that also included all the laser, whereas Eric's was, I think five because both of his eyes were covered. Yes, because he's a man. Is that why we do? Yes. Because he could do the I can't see out of the corners of my, I could have played that card. Yeah. No, he he really did have some. I'm excited to see what he looks like. Okay, so back to, like, the bigger issue at hand, you know, how how long, how long was it bothering you? Like you said, maybe the droopy eyelid for a long time, but under your eyes, like, when did that start? Yeah. I mean, that's that's sun damage. And that's because we are of the generation that. So having a tan once you burn was the greatest thing ever for sure was the only way to achieve a tan. So I have a lot of sun damage on my face and on my body, like all those brown spots are all appearing. And you know, I don't I don't like the way that they look. So that's been on my face. Well, first of all, I was sort of going out into the sun to sort of hope that the brown patch that was there, if I then got brown on the rest of my face, you. Just managed to disguise it. However, that hasn't really happened. So I think once I stopped going out into the sun and I realized just how, yeah, noticeable it was and it wasn't going to come off just with, you know, some random product advertised as a miracle cure on Instagram, which I am very susceptible to saying. Oh my God, I buy everything off Instagram. Okay, I think I'm getting done though, I okay, and I also okay, I want to talk about Instagram, but I also want to say, I also just got a procedure. I got a chemical pill, I paid a stranger good money, like hundreds of dollars to burn a layer of my skin off because I also was getting a little brown spots and, you know, just to expose, like, a baby layer of skin. And then I was like, what the hell are we doing? It just blew my mind. But then we started talking about it. And the reason I think I'm mad about it is because we are. Now we're going to get everything on our Instagram. I hope you have your phone. My phone's on. Just silent somewhere, but God knows we're going to be getting like brown spot remover on our Instagram or whatever. I almost just bought. This is why I'm like, I'm done. I almost just bought these things off Instagram. It's like a tape that pulls your skin up so you can wear shorts and so your knees are falling down. And as I'm like about to buy this, I'm like, damn it, I'm sick of this shit. I'm not buying this. I'm just going to I just have to get comfortable of this is how I look. I am almost 57 years old. My knees are going to be a little falling down or whatever. That skin. I don't know what it is, but I'm not taping it up. What if it falls down while I'm down, you know, and also just sick of this shit I'm so sick of. Every time I get on Instagram, it costs me 49, 99 and I have to be special price. Just now. So, you know, there is this whole thing about acceptance versus tweaking and, I think that we're not being honest. If we say, okay, I'm just going to fully age. And I have a shame about this now because I host a podcast called Age Like a Badass Mother. The Anti Anti-Aging podcast, where I'm trying not to focus on these things, but it just keeps coming up. And I think I'm being disingenuous and I don't want to do that. I want to be fully out there and fully transparent. And the more I talk to my friends, I'm saying, okay, we can't just be all or nothing. We can't be completely anti-aging if we are bothered by some things. And, you know, I think that there is a difference between going full Kardashian and just having a little tweak about something that really bothers you. What do you think? Get my bum done next. I know, but I think that since I mean and I think what I'm learning or what I'm coming to terms with is that for me, you know, looking good. So being in the weights where I can fit into all of my clothes and don't have to buy a whole new wardrobe, getting my hair colored every six weeks, which is definitely coming to time. But it isn't what I say. It isn't vain. It isn't? Oh, you know, look at a poor girl. You know, socially conditioned. It's what I want. It's what makes me feel good. And that's where I think I am. That's where I think I'm landing. I mean, I told you when I had the surgery done, and even before that, and even on the day of my surgery, the anesthetist comes around who looks exactly like Benedict Cumberbatch. It was very disconcerting, but so, so even day he's like, oh, you're having a, you know, a up and down. I'm like, yeah, but it's just it's just vanities, pure vanity. And when we went back for Eric's procedure, they were like, oh, you know, you're back again. I was like, yeah, but his is, his is I mean, I almost said his is real. Mine's just vanity and I every time. And I've been catching myself doing this over and over. And I'm going to stop because vanity is such a sort of ugly word in the way that people perceive it. But it's just about what makes you feel good. And so as long as that's not the only thing that I do, and I don't stuff junk down my throat and I on the couch and do no exercise, it's just part of of looking good and feeling good. So I kind of like that because I'm sick of I'm sick of having to explain it away or having people say, oh, but you know, you didn't need it. Well, it's not really for you to say it right? Right. That's okay. You can say that. But you could say it in your quiet, in your head voice. Like if you're saying that, you're almost negating what I'm trying to do because it's about me and my relationship with my face and my body when I look in the mirror, yeah. I write. It's like. No, I love your rants. No, it's true, because why shouldn't we be able to feel good? And I do feel conflicted because I have a lot of people who come on here. I'm going to interview one this week. Ashton Applewhite, and she wrote the book on ageism. And this would be a very ages thing. And so I feel very conflicted, but I feel that it's we need to explore all of it. You know what I like? I want to explore ageism. I want to know when to catch it, how the how we're catching it, how to avoid it. But that doesn't negate the fact that I still want to feel good and look good. And if something's really bothering me that I want to change it now, I feel, well, I. I almost shouldn't say this, but I feel like I let's just say everything. Let's just say everything. I do feel like there's a point, you know, if you have to fix every little thing, that's it. Something else. Maybe. You know, I feel like. Not that you shouldn't be allowed to. You should be able to be allowed to do whatever you want. But I feel like if you fix every little flaw because there's going to be more of them coming and more of them coming, they might not necessarily be the healthiest thing. Like, I feel like there has to be a certain amount of acceptance towards what do you feel the same way or what do you think I do? I mean, I mean, I did think about that before I had this done. I was like, oh, what is would it be opening up right here? And already, you know, I got the top half of my she lays it sort of under my eyes so cheap because that's where all the discoloration was. But the lower half of my face, you know, around my mouth and all of those lines, I mean, I see all the wrinkles. They are there because the lasering didn't happen. So will I go back later in the year and have the other the other half done? Yeah, I probably do. But that just that for me that's just sort of evening things out. Yeah, that makes sense. But there's a lot of other stuff. I mean my right ear, you just my. Security is sticky out here. I forgot about that. Yeah. She's written, it starred in. So. Yes. So exactly. But I mean, I'm not going to I'm not going to do anything about that. I'm just going to hold the resentment that I had from my parents for the rest of my life, that they never they never pinned it back. I have a nose that I'm very concerned about because my Armenian heritage recently discovered, that I'm going to end up with this sort of a nose that looks like my Armenian father sort of spreading halfway across my face. I know, but it's weird, but I'm not. I'm not actually going to have that done. So, yeah, there were still things that bothered me. But I tell you, when I look in the mirror, I put makeup on. Now it's huge for me because it feels, yeah, it feels the way that I wanted it to feel like I'm really, really happy. I have no regrets. That's good about having this done and I'm not going to. I can't see myself doing a lot of other things. I just want to. I just want to be healthy. Yeah, with the rest of my body. Like. And that's important. That's as important. But yeah. That's not what people see when they first meet you or look at you want to stage or in front of a camera or anything like that. Right? I mean, that's the other thing that, you know, it just brings up so many issues because it is all ingrained in us. And I when I was thinking about this, I remember something that I said to somebody, I was like 30 years old and she was probably 60 years old. I want to I want to go back and kill myself. No, not kill myself. But I, my friend's older sister, like, she's much older than him. I was 30 and she told me she was getting, I don't know what she said. A facelift or something, and I just was so flip about it. I just was like. I was like, And she goes, what? Because she thought I was going to be really happy about it for her. And I just said, I don't know, I just feel like if you get your face done, it's going to make all the other 60 year olds feel bad. And, you know, it's just not honest. And I just remember she just looked at me and she didn't say anything, and she just like, stormed off like I knew, like, now I know what she was thinking. She was just like this. Get back to me in 30 years, which now it's been 30 years. And like, okay, now I get it. I'm sorry. Patsy, if you're still around, I have no idea, but, Yeah, I shouldn't have said that. It was judgmental. It was immature. It was. I was shaming her. I mean, like, I don't even know what I was. I would just and I did I did really think that at the time I was like, oh my God, if these people would just all stop getting work done, then nobody would feel bad. And and I still kind of think that's true, but here we are. And that's not going to stop. And. Well, yeah, but I mean, if we were now in our 30s or 20s or anything, we'd be getting all kinds of things done. We'd be doing all of the preventative, preventative Botox that see that. And that's what blows my mind to like, really, you starting, you know, Botox at 15 or 15 in your forehead. Okay. But I mean, 20s or whatever. Yeah, I know, I know a lot of people who do that. I know younger people who do that. And, you know, I don't know what to say. Again, I don't want to I don't want to judge them, but I don't know. I mean, it seems kind of I don't know, I mean. I just I, it seems smart. I mean, I don't like the things like fillers and stuff like that because I think as you age they, they can really create problems. But, you know, maybe it's good that you're starting all of these. Yeah. That's part of a whole other beauty regimen then. No idea. You're not going to get to 60 and have to go get your. Level of. Perfection. I don't know. I mean, well, you know, again, I don't want to judge what anybody's doing, but it is kind of moving more in that direction where people are getting more and more things done. And it does put pressure like it puts pressure on people who absolutely can't afford to get a thing done. That's not fair. Absolutely. And it makes me you know, that's a whole other conversation. But I mean, then what are those people do? They don't get to feel better about themselves? I mean, it's a whole. I mean, that's a. Thing. Yeah. But it's still for me, it still comes back to you. I know, and I could and I could feel, you know, great. You know, and I, I agree with you on that. But I still come back to that. I that's not a reason for me not to do what I want to do. Right. And it's selfish and I, you know, this whole sort of saying, this is what I want. It's hard. It's hard for me to say it's, you know, it's probably hard for a lot of us of this age and women to say this is what I want. I'm doing this for me because I can, because I have the money to be able to do it. Yeah, I'm fortunate and I'm grateful for it, but I'm not going to apologize for it or make excuses for it or, you know, blame society for it. It's it's it's just what I want. Yeah. No. It's true. You no. No, I mean, you're right. But also I know I guess I am blaming society. Well, to some extent, just something. I mean, we all had that, right? Right. So, I mean, you and I were just talking before we started about aging and societal conditioning, and I was saying about this bizarre phenomenon of dressed like a grandparent day at school. I have never heard it. And you can, you can, you can Google. I believe you miss out dressed like a grandparent. Say they do it here in Austin and you can go to, you know, Party City or online and you can buy the dress like a grandparents outfit. And it's literally little old gray haired curly wigs, little glasses, you know, a walker, you know, a little handbag on your arm. The men have walking sticks. I mean, it's and so. Yeah. Is it funny? Yes. When you see these little. Yeah. It is funny to see a six year old like that, but it's. Fake wrinkles on their face. But it's not. But that's for all of our talk about how much you're more enlightened. We are in an about, you know, aging and you know, 60s and you whatever 70s and you we're giving these messages out to kids from a really young age that this is what aging and your grandparents look like. It's nonsense. That is nonsense. And. Yeah. And I've had a lot of guests like Doctor Ellen Langer. You're the one who suggested I have her on. Right. And she says like if you are a little kid and you have a grandparent who is aging really well, you're going to die. That's going to be the idea that you have in your head, and you're going to expect that you're going to age well, and that's going to cause you to age well. You know that you're going to hold that in your mind. It's so there probably is not the best thing grandparent day or whatever that's called. I don't know, I, I don't know, it's it's just. I mean, having worked in. Yeah. And having worked in, you know, nursing homes and senior living communities, you know, it really frustrated me because, you know, as an activity director or a life enrichment director, it was all about, you know, getting people engaged and not just playing, you know, bingo or whatever and changing. So I maybe obviously did like this. Quite everybody like, but. Thing wasn't the only thing that we did. You know, it's not there's not one size fits all for aging. No you're right. You're absolutely right. What what do you like about aging. I mean there's a certain I, I sort of tread that line. I have to be quite careful because like when I'm at the gym doing workouts with much younger people, there's a part of me, if I'm doing well, that sort of wants to go. I'll be 60 next year. God, please don't ever do that. I mean, just sort of, you know, and I've known obviously so many you and my parents being so much older than so many people who do that, you know, I'm, I'm 85, you know, you're like, oh, congrats. Good for you. I'm sort of right on that couscous. I'll be 60 and I'm still left in these weight. So, but there is a certain amount of pride in being able to, you know, compete. Still having a body that has not let me down because I started exercising a lot later in life. Anyway, it wasn't part of my part of growing up. So, I mean, I like I like that aspect. Oh, that's not very much, is it? I mean, yeah, aging. I mean, I could sort of do the whole I mean, I don't know that I have that sense of not caring what people think about me because I still do. And I'm not sure that I will ever lose that. And I have mine that I think we should. I don't want to be somebody who just doesn't give a toss about any of that. I know a lot more. Yeah, an awful lot more. And I'm a lot more confident when I make decisions because I have a whole lot more experience to back me up. So I like I like that part. I like the knowledge. I, I hate to use the, the wisdom word. And I'm glad that I'm through menopause. Oh, my God, I'm so glad you brought that up. Okay, anybody who listens to this podcast knows that I'm just I have to bring it up every time that I haven't gone through menopause, and I'm almost 57. You guys, I started going through menopause. Hello. Well, I need Gretchen. Thank you, thank you. So I just let me tell you what my experience has been. It's been pretty much nothing. I haven't had a period in, like, two months. A little over maybe. Yeah, maybe 8 or 9 weeks. And, for me, that's like, I never missed a period. I was, like, regular every 28 days, like clockwork. And then. So after I missed my first period, I started getting these little warm flashes. They were just, okay. I'm the kind of person who's always freezing, so it was like a warm. My whole body was warming up, but it was a little annoying, but not too bad. And, I started like just sleeping in. I would sleep naked, except that my husband would never let me have a second piece. So I was sleeping in, like, less clothes, like T-shirt and underwear. And even then he's like, whoa, where's your pants? I was like, get off of me! I was like, I'm having a warm flush. And, so it was that went on for about a week, and I tried, doctor Barnard was on the show and he said, eat a half a cup of soy beans a day, and I did. That didn't really help. And then I had somebody else might also be Doctor Barnard who said, like a tablespoon or, maybe it is Doctor Shapiro, a tablespoon of ground flax meal or two tablespoons. So I've been doing a tablespoon of ground flax meal every day in my oatmeal. And I haven't had one little warm since. And that was yeah. So I had warm flashes. They weren't even hot. Had warm flashes for like a week. And then I've had no other symptoms. Like I mean nothing and I don't know if it's going to continue like this. I'm not bragging. I'm just telling you what my my experience has been, and that I'm finally going through it. And I finally feel like a grown up. So, I don't know. You know, a few doctors on here have said if you do what I do, the whole food plant based diet, that you are more likely to have an easier menopause. I don't know if that's true or not. And also, I don't know if this is, you know, if it's going to change, but okay, so that's been my experience so far. That's great. Yeah, I know that you have access to all of that knowledge. I didn't have anything and I didn't really again, sort of clearly this is a pattern with not necessarily doing a lot of research in advance, even though I claim that I do. Like, I didn't really read a lot. I didn't I didn't look for a lot of things. So I don't know, I don't remember having I don't feel like I had a lot of the brain fog that people talk about, because I also don't feel like I maybe I still have, you know, I don't feel like I ever actually come out of that. So perhaps it just still there and the weight gain was an issue. I could round my stomach. That was that was a problem. Yeah. And that's I've always been able to run that off, exercise that off and I couldn't. And that drove me mad. So that was hard. But I didn't have any sort of hair loss or any of the other issues. But yeah, the hot flashes, they were, they were pretty bad. They were, they were every night. How long did you, have symptoms and how long did it take for you to fully get through menopause? Well, I don't know. I mean, maybe, maybe a year won't be a year or say. Well, they say that you have to go without having a period for a year period. But. Yeah. And so you didn't like stop and then start. Have your period again. No. I just know I can't have periods and then. Yeah. And then that not nothing came back. So for me it was, it was, it was more of a wait issue. Maybe my moods were weird, but, you know, I never went to the doctor, and I never documented symptoms. And sometimes I think that's just sort of how I go through life. Well, you are British. I just sort of stuff in nonsense there. They make a big issue out of it. So, yeah, you know, I never and I didn't have a lot of people to talk about it with either. So sometimes with that you just. Yeah. You do. It is very British. You do. Just get on with it. Just get on with it. Yeah, yeah. You know what? Now that you say, I think that I had symptoms before I started menopause because I lost a bunch of hair leading up to it. And it went on for years, but I wasn't sure because it started during the pandemic and I thought I was just really stressed. And then I had several years of being very stressed because I had a lot of stress with my mother being very sick. And so I was like, I'm not really sure. But looking back on it, I bet that the hair loss was related, you know, hormonally. Yeah. But it stopped, thank God. You know, as far as I mean, everybody softens up in the middle. I mean, that just was kind of coming on for, for a while. I mean, nobody has like, washboard abs at this age, like. No, but there's a certain. But that that belly fat that comes is a certain type of fat. I mean, that's actually got a name right, that any of your doctors would. Adipose. Is that it. That's very specific. And it is. Adipose. Friendly maybe. I don't. Know. I've heard that. Before. More difficult it's more it's just more difficult. Like you just can't use your usual techniques right. I mean again. That. Yeah. So anyway, what else. What what else do we know? Is there anything else that you want to talk about? Would what what's your best piece of advice for aging? Well. Oh, gosh. You know, I think one thing I have learned is I've got older. To go back to that question is to stop striving. Like, I feel like my whole life. Yes, career wise, exercise wise, you know, there's obviously some perfectionism in there, but it's like it's it's striving. It's like, well, you know, you know, going to put in the work, you know, work really hard. And that's how we were also, you know, brought up as well. But I just feel like if I could just if I just let, let things be okay. I read a lot of, the writer, Genevieve Davis, she was she goes by Sasha. Her series of books is becoming magic. And she has a academy. Anyway, her whole thing is about just letting everything be okay, just sort of allowing stuff to happen and stop trying to push against it and to change the outcome. And that has I mean, you talked about how you felt that I've changed over the past couple of years from who I absolutely. And I think I think that's part of it. Yeah. I remember when I used to be training for stupid triathlons and marathons and everybody else, and one of the coaches, the name was Andrea Fisher, and she said, don't. She's like, always change your face. Like, don't make it look hard. You don't want to look like you're suffering or striving too hard because, you know, it makes everybody else. Well, you know, she's out in front, but she's suffering too. Whereas if you put this sort of face on, it's like, all right, so pretty easy for me. Like everybody else is like, well, what the heck. You know, how they how she doing this? Why she making it look so easy and it puts everybody else off. And I've always sort of thought that was such a great piece of advice. Like if you could just, you know, let go of this sort of grip and that everything's, you know, everything's a struggle, everything's so hard. And a lot of that is our British mentality. You know, you got to, you know, tough it out. Yeah. I said, you know you go to England and the weather's so crap that everybody's sort of hunched down battling against the elements. Even if it's bright sunshine, because that's just who we are, our conditioning generalizing massively here. But as a nation. And so I you know, I obviously had to change when I came here, but that sort of letting go and finding an ease in things stuff, just stuff just opens up. Stuff just happens, you know, that you're talking about, you know, with some of your projects when you just sort of believe that things will work out. Right. Table you you're not responsible for how it's going to happen that way. It's not that you're not responsible, because obviously you have to put in the work, but there's a balance between, you know, expecting that you'll do well and you don't know how it's all going to happen, but it does. Just believing that it will. But yeah, you're a completely different person than when I met you 20 years ago. You get cynical about how I used to be. You know, you just were very, driven, very, you were always like, you wouldn't miss a workout. You were very regimented about your work. And, you know, here you have this new business, your truly terrific tea company, and that it has been more, I feel like it's it's been very successful very quickly because you are more just, like, in the flow and just letting it happen. Like you get out and you network and you do things and you do a great job. And so that you have a lot of word of mouth, but it is just sort of more happening then you would have just been really pushing back in the day. Oh, absolutely. You would have been so frustrated. Yeah. And so frustrated that things weren't happening the way that I wanted them to happen. You know, this is on a like a daily basis, you know, but I where you know, why, why hasn't that check arrived or you know, why haven't this person written the review that they promised to do? And and it's on my mind and I'm looping and I'm looping and then I get to the point where I'm like, okay, if it happens, it happens, but I am perfectly okay if it doesn't happen. I mean, not so much with the check, obviously, but it does need to happen. But, yeah, but other things. And then it could be minutes later, hours or a day later and that thing just comes to pass a knife. And I, I truly feel it's just because I just released the, the need for it to happen. Now, British, me or British, anybody would kind of just say this was rubbish, nonsense. So I still do have to battle that part of me. You know, sometimes I think, well, if I ever said any of this to my brother, he would say, well, I don't know. What would he do. He you wouldn't. Believe it to be saved by dumbfounded by me because I'm not because that's not the culture that I was brought up in. But, But yeah. So I'm happy. So I'm a, I'm a lot I'm a lot happier. I'm a lot more at ease. So that's not a specific aging thing, but I. Think it. Is. If I'm like this now, then what if I'm not going to go back? No, I do think it's an aging because I call it like a softening. I feel like you have softened in a lot of ways and not in bad. I mean, I mean, it's all in is a in a good way, like you're just, a softer, easier person. Not that you weren't easy. I've always enjoyed you, but I just think for for you like for me to observe you, that you feel, you know, more easygoing and and more accepting of things. And I feel like that is an aging thing because I think that we have had enough experience that maybe we can trust more, that it's all going to work out, because we've been through these things a number of times now, or lessons or whatever they are, you know? Right. We've started a business or we've done something hard and we see that it usually works out the way we want or the way it's supposed to. So yeah, and it's just so different from British conditioning, which is just to expect, you know, well, you can give it a try, but it's, you know, always expect the worst. And that's and it's so but it is so ingrained these you know you're going to be the runner up. You're not going to be the winner. And but you know you try you gave it a good try. Yeah. That's a that's a hard one to it's been a hard one to let go of. I mean I've been here for 25 years. Oh, is that it? I thought you were here longer than that. Oh, God, that seems like a long time. But I know, but I just thought that you had already been here for quite some time. By the time I bet you. Know, five years. Yeah, I. Yeah. Well. Yeah. What? Oh, yeah. So I like that part anyway. What, what lessons did you learn from watching your parents age? Oh, gosh. I don't know. It's interesting with my parents because they were so much older, you know, because I was adopted and, you know, my mom was was 40, so huge difference in generationally, you know, in the way that they were brought up, you know, that sort of very old fashioned way. But honestly, they were also, when I look back at it now, they were very, sort of live and let live people, you know, they didn't let us, you know, be snobby, about other people. You know, my mom did a lot of, volunteer work, which is something that that I took on as well. So she was very sort of into the the service elements, you know, and it's been said to me probably every episode of this that you do, you know, it's also about being kind. They were very they were very kind people. I never saw them, you know, get particularly angry. They were never mean to anybody. So those things, those kind of old fashioned values that I rallied against so much when I was a kid because I just thought they were so, you know, boring. It's not what my it's not what my friends did. You know, we had horrible old wooden antique furniture where my friends had all this modern white melamine, you know, fall apart. You know, we had to have butter and everybody else had margarine. And I wanted that, you know, all of these things that, that, that, that I really hated as a, as a child, I have now embraced, I mean, I lot, I think a lot of people kind of go back to the things that their parents did, but those, those sort of goodness values and kindness values, I recognize them a lot more now. And it's and it's hard to recognize them once your parents are gone because you just can't go back, obviously, and you can't go back and say anything. Yeah. But physically they did not physically they did not age well at all. Yeah. That's probably one reason that you've been really adamant about your health and staying on top of, you know, your workouts and your health, maybe because you saw how they aged. Yeah. I mean, they were so relatively young. I mean, my dad was, you know, my dad was only 76, but he just worked his whole life. And then when he retired, he didn't really have anything. And so he just deteriorated from then on. And then of course, my mum had Alzheimer's, which, you know, her her mother did not. So that's just a lottery, I think. So that took a lot of that took about 15 years away, from us that we should have had with her. How old was she when she passed away? 94. Oh, she was old. I didn't realize she was so old. Yeah, yeah. But I. But you're saying 15 years where she wasn't herself. Yeah, well, she. I thought you made 15. Years. No, I mean, we diagnosed. She was diagnosed. Yeah. I can't remember what year it was, but she had clearly had symptoms before that. But we just didn't didn't we just didn't realize. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah physically they didn't. But you know that that's a different that's a completely different generation. I mean she grew up you know my dad fought in the war. My mum you know was a teenager. She they went through rationing you know very very very different experience. Yeah for sure. Same age as the Queen. Your mom was the same age. As the Queen. She like to say. Yeah, it's the same year. Is the Queen 19, 19, 27? Wow, wow. Oh my gosh. Well, is there anything else we should discuss I think that for me, I will still continue to try and do those things that scare me. I mean, I think back like, that was such a big thing for me. Like literally every year I had to have to do something that scared me. So, you know, there was there was stand up, there was sky dives, there was the marathon, there were triathlons. I took a trapeze class. Oh, God, I remember that. There was the scariest thing I've ever done. I. Forgot about that. So you did. One woman plays a lot of screen shows. One. Yeah. Festivals to me. I still do it. It's changed a bit now because it's not necessarily something that actually scares me. You know, where that adrenaline is, is pumping so hard, but it is that outside of the comfort zone, it is. Getting up off the sofa and going out to some networking thing. But I really, really don't want to go to that. Sort of like we were saying, trust that it's going to be worth it. Because as we get older, my fear is that the world starts getting smaller. And I know that from, you know, when I used to do grocery shopping for Meals on Wheels clients or go deliver meals and their world had become so narrow and contained, you know, to the apartment or even just to a room in an apartment. So they just didn't they didn't have any life beyond them. That's what that's what worries me. That's everything sort of just shuts down a bit and you just do the same things and you're in the same area. And so anything that pushes you outside of that is important is important I think. So I think that's good. That's good advice. I don't know what things I'll take on that. I know I can't imagine what you're going to do next. I think I did threaten to go and climb Mount Kilimanjaro, but. I know that sounds terrible. What about it? It does sound a bit terrible, because I'll probably be one of those people that gets that sort of awful sickness that has to be carried or carried. Down by a Sherpa. I mean, it's a good story to tell. I could probably make a. One woman show out of it. I do still think that that, so. Yeah, so but maybe something big, but it feels a little cliched to do it at 60. It may have to be 61, just to be slightly perverse about it. And then, I know you often ask about pieces of advice. Yeah. Your best piece. Of advice is just say, let me have a piece of advice, but I did. I do have to. And I'm sure I've told you this before, but one of the greatest books that I ever read, was Susan Jeffers Feel the Fear and Do It anyway, which I need to. Oh, yeah. Pull out again. Because where it not for that book, then I would not have told my boyfriend of 12 years that I loved him, but was no longer in love with him on New Year's Eve, and then moved down in early January. I mean, I can't blame it all. He he, I think, probably still blames. Susan Jeffers. For the ending of Susan Jeffers. If you're still out there, perhaps a success story. Story from my side. Not so much from Liz. But she probably worked. I mean, at least he probably has somebody who loves him now, or he's alone. He's not with somebody who resents him or doesn't love him. But, you know, there's a thread. I mean, do you follow this thread? I started out talking about van and his whole, you know, if you don't fail, you're not interesting, right? Like, clearly, subconsciously, I've realized that this whole sort of just taking a chance, like taking that risk and just doing it. And if you fail, oh, well, at least you at least you tried. You learn. It's kind of important. I, it's very. Feel the fear and just do it anyway. Yes. I think that's so. It's an old book. Yeah. Clearly if you are talking about your old boyfriend, you've been married for how long have you been married to Eric? Oh, 2016. Yeah. So it's a book from the day. But no, you're absolutely right. I think that, and it goes back to, to what we were talking about at the very beginning as well, that at least we're just still trying to do stuff. And that was what Andy said that he liked about me eventually that I, you know, didn't lose myself in the kids or just whatever things that you do that to lose yourself. I fought against it because he kind of was trying not not he wasn't trying to be mean or trying. He was just saying, like, these are the important things in life right now. You have three little kids. What are you doing? Yeah. And I was like, I don't care. Not that I don't care, but. I. I still want to be a person. I still want to be a person. I want to do things. Yeah. I never thought about that, you know, at the time, but but yeah, you're right, you're right. I mean, it's much easier for me, you know, having no kids, I have a lot more freedom. My point is, I could go off and skydive and, you know, not worry if I. If the parachute didn't open. No problems. Just Eric. Just means. Eric and the. Dog. No missing. No, I think I think you're right. The the feel the fear and do it anyway. That's good. Good advice. I think this was a good talk. Maggie. Susan. Thanks, Maggie. Thanks, Susan. Well, I'm going to have to have you back. We're going to have to have some some chats, some regular chats, because I think that, it is just good to to talk as honest girlfriends about these things. Yeah. And we, we haven't even talked about sort of, you know, diet and all of those things. You know, it's just still those are still important to me. But I think when you have the foundation, when you have that right, you know, you start looking at what else can I tweak. But yeah, I'll get in touch if, if I let you know if I'll do a live feed from, Kilimanjaro. Can you do a live feed from Kilimanjaro? Who knows? I don't think that you can. They don't. I don't think that's concern. Well, I think there's easier. I think there's easy routes. I mean, there's people that sort of go up there pushing, you know, prams and saying, no. That's not true. So you haven't done your research. I'm saying there is an easier routes. I may be slightly exaggerating, but I will I will look into it. All right. Let me. Know. Of course, I'd have to take the very hard route. You're going to take the hard route, maybe the medium route, now that you've softened. Chichi. All right, all right. Thank you, Maggie. Thank you. Bye bye bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.