William (Bill) Kole: Unlock The Secrets to Living to 100 Independently

William (Bill) Kole, author of The Big 100: The New World of Super-Aging, talks about the pros and cons of living beyond 100. What happens when living to 65 is just the halfway point? By 2050, the world's centenarian population—those aged 100 or more—will increase eightfold. Bill talks about the Blue Zones myths and what is happening. Hear inspiring stories of those who have lived well into their 100s. We discuss the oldest documented living human, Jeanne Calment, who was 122 years old. She met Vincent Van Gogh and watched the Eiffel Tower being built. We discuss how to increase not only your lifespan but also your health span. Discover the keys to a long and healthy life.

https://www.billkolebooks.com/

Subscribe to the Age Like a Badass Mother YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@agelikeabadassmother

Download Lauren's Free Cookbook, Cook Your Way to Health with Well Elephant https://wellelephant.com/

Follow us and reach out at:
Email: lauren@agelikeabadassmother.com
Facebook: @WellElephant
Instagram: @laurenbernick_well_elephant

#SuperAging, #LiveTo100, #HealthyAging, #TheBig100, #PlantBasedHealing, #LongevityLifestyle, #ReverseHeartDisease, #AgeLikeABadass, #CentenarianSecrets, #WholeFoodWellness, #BillKole, #WilliamKole,

Transcript

0:00

Hi, friend. Today's guest is William Cole, author of The Big 100. The New World of Super Aging. He joins us to explore the pros and cons of living past 100. And shares powerful insights of how to live independently to 100 and beyond. A few weeks ago, I shared my personal journey of reversing heart disease through a whole food plant based diet. Since then, I've been creating short videos to help you discover simple, delicious, plant based meals that can transform your health. After the episode. Be sure to visit The Age Like a Badass Mother YouTube channel and hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any of the videos. And finally, thank you. Age Like a Badass Mother is in the top 10% of all podcasts worldwide, and it's all because of you. Please keep sharing your favorite episodes with your friends and know that I appreciate every single one of your beautiful ear holes. Hi friends, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing. Welcome to the anti Anti-Aging podcast. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Bill Cole is an award winning reporter, editor, and former foreign correspondent. Cole studied journalism at Boston University and joined the Associated Press in Detroit, where he covered doctor Jack Kevorkian, his suicide machine and the spirited national conversation around individual end of life decisions. Later, as an AP correspondent based in Paris, Amsterdam and Vienna, he covered some major international stories, including the crash that killed Princess Diana, the death of Pope John Paul the Second, and Kosovo's independence. He speaks French, Dutch and German. Cole, who now works as an editor for Axios, was a 2022 fellow in aging journalism at Columbia University in New York and at the National Press Foundation in Washington, DC. The big 100 The New World of Super Aging, is his first book. Please welcome Bill Cole. Hi, Bill. Hi, Lauren. It's such a pleasure to be with you. And a belated bad ass Mother's Day. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Well, I'm really excited to talk to you. I enjoyed your book a lot. It was, very eye opening. I think I, emailed you, and I told you that my husband didn't even believe me about some of the stories in there of the people who lived so long. But we'll get to that. But, before we start that, I kind of just want to back up and ask you, you had such a storied career, and, What what do you what really struck you about that Doctor Kevorkian story and what stayed with you about that? Well, you know, he was a man before his time, you know, he he certainly thrust us as a nation into some very, you know, discomforting thoughts and, and debate, you know, about end of life decisions and, and the people he was helping were really in just wretched shape. You know, these were not healthy individuals, you know, who just wanted to check out the these were people in chronic, debilitating pain. And he was offering them, you know, a gentle, loving, decent way out, you know, and I think still to this day, we're very uncomfortable. I myself am somewhat uncomfortable with, with all of that, you know, but, you know, he was kind of, like I said, a man before his time. I find it rather upsetting that, you know, we incarcerated this guy. I mean, he was just trying to bring us into a place where we could, you know, appreciate human suffering and possibly do something, you know, to to to ease it. And, you know, fast forward, you know, later, I went on to work in, in the Netherlands as a foreign correspondent where, you know, they they have legalized euthanasia. And it's, it's very, very tightly regulated. You can't just, you know, up and decide I'm going to die today. You know, I mean, there are lots of conversations, fans and, and, and screening and vetting and all of that stuff. So there is a way a place, I believe, you know, in society for that. But somehow in our, American, you know, situation, we just don't have room for it. Yeah. I mean, I say all the time, like you, you put your dog down when your dog is suffering, right? Why wouldn't you do that? I we I'm sure at this point in our lives, we've all seen people have a really, an exit that you wouldn't wish upon anybody. And. Yeah, I mean, where's the dignity? I know, you know, we talk a lot about the importance of having agency as individuals. And then, you know, we draw the line there. Again, I'm very uncomfortable. I'm a very deeply spiritual person as well. So I wrestle with all of this, you know, it when people say we're playing God, that that hits me, right. You know, right between the eyes and I. It stops me. So I, you know, these are deeply fraught and, you know, and complicated questions, but, you know, at least he started a conversation. And I think, you know, that conversation continues to this day. And, you know, we'll we'll see where we end up here. He may, you know. Yeah, I think he was like, again, he he really was way ahead of of the rest of us I think. So. And you were you were relatively young when you were covering that story, I imagine, because that's. How old were you back? I was in my 30s, early 30s covering that. So, you know. Yeah. And it was and it seemed strange to me, you know, again, as a younger person, I really couldn't, you know, put myself into these people's shoes. And, now I can, you know, and, you know, but at the end of the year, I'll be turning 65. I've seen a lot. And in the ensuing years, and I understand that, you know, life isn't always what we imagined it would be. Or, you know, that. And we don't always live the life that we had projected ourselves to live. And, this, you know, it's. Yeah, it's it's a lot to think about. Yeah. I mean, has your has your, opinion changed at all since you were in your 30s and when you first covered the story to To Now or. Yeah, I think so. I think initially I was, pretty resistant to the idea that this would be good for society. And now, you know, having aged myself, I mean, I look, I, I'm, I'm all in on living vibrantly and fully, and I'm, and I'm trying to do that myself in my 60s. And I really do believe, you know, that, you know, 60 is the new 40 and all of that, you know, so I that all seems still very distant to me. But I just feel like for those who are really, really struggling, especially physically, with things that there's just no hope for them, you know, can't they have that option? I mean, and how can that diminish us by withholding that option for that. I yeah I think I think you're right. What what made you, was it just that you were getting older that sparked your interest in aging. I mean that's kind of what did it for me. But that's how it did it for you as well I think. So I think also there were honestly the big 100, was inspired by two women. One was John Kellerman. And we'll we'll talk about her a little bit more, I'm sure. But she was the, oldest person who ever lived whose age could be authenticated by records. She lived to 122 years and 164 days, in France, where I was a foreign correspondent, and I was, privileged to, you know, cover parts of her journey, an extraordinary person. And, you know, when you encounter somebody like that, your life is forever changed. And I, I developed, I think, kind of a borderline obsession with these very, very old people, you know? And the other woman who inspired this book was my own grandmother, my mother's mother, who lived, just shy of 104. She was born in 1899 and died in 2003. So her life touched parts of three centuries. And and she was an incredible individual. And again, when you have, you know, one of these extraordinary people in your own family, it just kind of captures your imagination. And so those two women kind of got me really thinking about this. And then, you know, I think, like many of us, I started to realize, wow, I'm really hearing about people living to 100 and beyond a lot more often than I used to. And is it my imagination that more of us are are reaching these triple digit ages, or is something more going on? And if it is true and it is, how is that going to change our society? And so that's the central question I sought to answer with the big 100. And how is it changing our society? Oh, gosh, in every imaginable living way? Well, yeah. You know, look, we're we're really are sort of aging by practically every metric, available, in the United States and in many other parts of the world in fact, the only part of the world that is sort of not, encountering this incredible demographic shift is, sub-Saharan Africa, where there's still, you know, there you're younger, there's just and, you know, and some of that's somewhat tragic to their life expectancies are, are lower and so forth. But, even even in Africa, you know, people are catching up. I think, you know, we are you know, we're just, I call it in the book we are becoming the United States of America. And, you know, you can just see, these incredible, tipping points, which I'll just give you one example. I think, in 20, 34, just nine years from now, older Americans will outnumber children for the first time in United States history. And that's a big deal. You know, so, you know, in other words. But the those of us who are, you know, 64 and older will, outnumber the, you know, the 18 and younger, group. So that's, that's, that's extraordinary. And, and, you know, as we age, of course, the implications on our Social Security systems, on our personal finance, on our health care and, really, really almost everything, is affected. Yeah, it's going to take a toll. And so just to I think most people kind of have, somewhat, of a handle on how we got here. But, you know, I guess, the first step in expanding life span seemed to have been the inoculation for smallpox. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, smallpox was the, you know, sort of in, in the world of disease, the big one, you know, it it it killed indiscriminately by, by the millions. Okay. You know, Covid was nothing compared to smallpox. And when we got it, the upper hand on that, you know, our life expectancy just kept expanding. And of course, Covid, by the way, was no joke. And it did set us back a few years, in terms of, you know, average life expectancy at birth. But we've already actually made up that ground, since the Covid, you know, I mean, we still have Covid. We're going to be in the Covid era for the rest of our natural lives. But, you know, in terms of the the peak part of the pandemic. Yeah, we've we've kind of made up the ground that we lost. And, yeah. So if you really honestly, there are two major factors at play in why more of us are living longer and even into into triple digit ages. The first one is really just demographic, and that is that. My my generation, the baby boom generation, is very large. And, you know, they're there's many, many of us, and the oldest of us are in our late 70s. And so in the next, you know, 20 to 25 years, the fittest of, of, of the boomers will start to hit 100. And just because there's so many of us, you know, the numbers of people living, to 100 and, you know, is going to increase dramatically, in fact, eight times over, the projections are and and so that's one piece of it just purely demographic. And then the other pieces is just, you know, medical and technological. We are doing a better job at, curing the things that kill us. And, and so, you know, we're I mean, you can just see how we've, you know, I remember when I was a kid and somebody you know, I was told somebody had cancer. You know, there was just like, you know, a hush in the room and people thought, oh, my God, that person is done for. I know so many people who are living with cancer or or have, you know, it's in remission. We have immunotherapy. We have, you know, all kinds of, you know, targeted ways to, to fight it. You know, our smoking rates are way down and, you know, and just it's it's extraordinary what we've been able to do with organ transplantation. And it just goes on and on to the point, you know, and. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, no, I was just going to say to the, you know, we're doing such a good job at really handling natural causes of death that, at Stanford University, there's a center on longevity. And, they are projecting that half of all five year olds alive right now will live to 100. And, in just two and a half decades from now, by 20, 50, 100 years old will be the average life expectancy for children in the United States. And again, this and this, this is, you know, this goes right to the medicine, and the medical advances. Well, I mean, it kind of seems crazy, but if we think about it, I, I was actually trying to get back to, you know, in 1900, the average life expectancy for a woman was like 48 years old. So half of, you know, I mean, that's. And then, so, yeah, I was trying to get the roadmap of what got us here. So first, the inoculation for smallpox and coordinating the water, then, I guess vaccines like polio and and medicine, like penicillin. And so these are. And then, what? Seatbelts and smoking cessation, you know, got us to, like, an average age of, what, 79 is about the average life expectancy, you know? Right. Yeah. Right. Right now it's actually, 77.5. It's it's a bit more than that for women and a bit under that for men. But the average right now is about 77.5. So we've just, you know, we're just clawing back, you know, from Covid but and by the way, we, you know, a lot of other countries have a much better life expectancy than we do. And that's not to go off on a tangent, but, you know, we should be like, no, go ahead, go off. I mean, we just, you know, we we always talk about, you know, American exceptionalism. And we are very unexceptional when it comes to life expectancy. There are, you know, there are 200 some odd countries. And we are right around like, in the low, high 50s, low 60s, on that list. I mean, there are there are quote unquote third world countries, developing nations that do a better job, with health care and all and economic conditions to the point where they are living longer than Americans are. And that's number one. It shifts, right? I can't off the top of my head. I'm not even remembering which one it is. I think actually, no, I do remember. What is. It's Monaco, which is, you know, this tiny little principality in the south of, you know, just near the south of France. And that is, interesting because, you know, a lot of this does boil down to economics. You know, what kind of resources you have to to get fresh food to be, you know, we say, well, just just exercise. But if you're working two jobs to make ends meet, you don't have time. Maybe you can't afford to buy even, you know, a pair of walking shoes or whatever. So much of this comes down to, economic equity, and it can it's elusive for many people. So, you know, Monaco, of course, is the, you know, the land of, of of billionaires and millionaires and they're all, you know, they can afford to play and, and, and have the best of everything. So it's no, it's not no surprise that they're living the longest. Yeah. And you say that, the centenarians are overwhelmingly white. Yeah. That's well, I think we all know this, that stress affects aging income. People go without health care because they can't afford it. And yeah, those are all things that, like you said, socio economic, economic things that of, affect aging. That's. Yeah. You know, just to just to pause on that one point because I think that's a really important point. Lauren, I'm often asked what what was the, you know, my biggest surprise in my research for the book. And I knew, I guess, that, you know, people of color were at a longevity disadvantage. I just didn't realize how, how stark that that disadvantage is. So, you know, white Americans live, on average, about six years longer than black Americans. And that just that just really disturbs me. And it feels like a gap that we urgently need to close. And, you know, then you start, you know, you look at people, you know, who are trying to, you know, put themselves in, into a position where they can, you know, live as long as they can and doing blood transfusions and all kinds of crazy, you know, therapies and, I don't know, I, you know, for me, you know, trying to level the playing field in terms of life span is much more urgent and important than some billionaire in, you know, in Silicon Valley, you know, juicing himself in order to, you know, live a few extra years. Just my opinion. No, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that we saw that so much during Covid. I mean, yeah, I think if that wasn't apparent, then just between, you know, the people who were dying more and the kids who were falling behind in education more because they didn't have a computer at home or, you know, all the things, all the things. Kovid kind of brought it to light. And I think you're absolutely right. It's, Yeah, that's that's something we're going to have to get better at as a country. Yeah. Well, I, I, I want to go back and and now talk about John. Tell me. No, I'm. Get them. All right. Come on, come on. Okay, so she was she was the the lady who lived to be that first one, who was verified to live to 122 years old. Correct. Because she had an actual birth certificate. Yeah, right. You know, she she. Right. Her age could be authenticated by records. And that's interesting because, you know, we do hear you anytime you're in the supermarket, you know, checkout line and you look at the tabloids, you might see, you know, 146 year old man, you know, walks out of the Brazilian rainforest and maybe he maybe there is somebody who is 146 in the Brazilian rainforest, but there's no way to prove it. You know, there's no paper trail. But in John Clements, instance, you know, she lived in France, a Catholic country. She had birth certificates, baptismal certificates, all kinds of paperwork. That, you know, show us that, you know, she she she really was that old. Yeah. And I, love that she. And she died in the 90s, right? Yes. Yeah, she died about a couple of weeks after Princess Diana. As a matter of fact. Oh, right before she went away. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Before Princess Diana. Right? In 1987? Yeah, in 97. And so, she said that she met Vincent van Gogh and that she watched the Eiffel Tower being built. I mean, that's insane. And then. Oh, she didn't have very nice things to say about Van Go either. Right. She said he know he stunk of absinthe and, And he was ugly. She was not very nice about him. Yeah. You know that that they used to call him, dingo, because he was so ugly. And she worked. She worked in her father's art supply store in the southern French city of Arles. And she, Yeah. So that's where she was selling colored pencils to Van Gogh. And and he he stunk of alcohol and everything, and and she said she was very funny. And we can talk about that a little bit more because that's so key to, you know, aging well. But she, she said, you know, that she met him before he lost his ear. So, you know, he was like, yeah, right. That is I mean, okay, so she, she also, you know, she handled her stress because she had her fair share of, you know, heartache. And so can you talk about some of the things that, that you think, lend to aging well or to aging long like she did? Yeah, absolutely. You know, Gene Carmel is really a beautiful example of the importance of positivity and humor, in our aging journeys. You know, she one of my favorite quotes from John Carmel was something she said, I think she was like 120 at that point. When I first heard her say this, she said, I only have one wrinkle, and I'm sitting on it, which is freaking hilarious. Okay. I mean, you know, for 120 year old person to crack a joke like that is I missed on the floor. I mean, it's just I, you know, that's amazing. She, she stopped wearing mascara because she laughed so much, through the course of the day that she would just cry it off and make a mess of her face. So she just finally decided, I'm not putting, you know, makeup on, eye makeup on anymore. And, you know, there's got to be a. Well, actually, if there's not got to be, there is a very clear connection between, you know, our optimism and good humor and, and, you know, it literally adds years to our life and, and it adds life to our years. She she just was very positive, and, and, you know, quirky and funny and adventurous to. How so? Well, she, she took fencing lessons at age 85, you know, when any of us would just be in a rocking chair? You know, she was fencing. Think of that. That's this is not, you know, playing chess or or even, you know, I mean, fencing is kind of an intense, you know, sport, you know, it's an Olympic sport. So she did that at 85. She wrote her bicycle until she was 100. And then, you know, then she stopped with that, but she still was, you know, very active, that at, I believe, 120 or 121, I think it was 121 about a year before her death. She was shown how to use a computer, and she promptly set up her own website, and sort of figured out how to. Yeah. You know, when I one of the stories, well, yeah, it really is Lauren. And one of the stories that I wrote in Paris while I was a foreign correspondent for AP was about how she recorded a rap CD, at a 120 and, the, the title of the CD was Times Mistress, just like, you know, very, very cute and amusing, but she, you know, she kind of was murmuring, you know, again, it wasn't it wasn't like she was Eminem. You know, spreading across the stage and, you know, and doing a battle with somebody. But she was, you know, she was kind of murmuring, you know, lines to this rap music. It just incredible, all the things she did, she was very, very, Yeah. Really on the ball and and sharp right to the end. And I think that I was so impressed with her letting go of things and stress because I know her daughter died fairly young. Right. And and she was raising her grandson, who also died young. Yeah. And her husband, she lost her husband. And in his 40s, they were having a picnic. And he that he ate some spoiled cherries and got botulism and died of that. And so for, you know, 70 years, you know, she went I mean, way longer than she had him in her life. She, she had nobody, and so she definitely had tragedy. And with tragedy, of course, comes a lot of stress and stress. Toxic stress is the enemy of longevity. So somehow she was able to overcome these setbacks, and and and find the will to live and not only just the will to live, but just what the French would call la joie de vivre, you know, the joy of of living, Yeah. She had that. Yeah. She just had that incredible way about her that she could just handle that stress and let it go. And I think that that's so important. And I think that that's one of the common things. What what are some other common things, you know, that you see in these super agers. Yeah. So like, you know, I think my grandmother, well, for example, my grandmother had some similar traits. She, she also suffered loss. Her husband died, you know, 50 years or, 45 years before she did. So she had to make her way alone. She had five children. She lost her son. My uncle Andy, quite young. He was barely 40. You know, I mean, you know, that's it's hard to lose a child. Obviously. It's devastating. She also, like, she was an amazing person. First of all, she she, she played piano for the silent movies in the 1920s and which which. Absolutely. You know, just, I don't even have words for that, because it's just so amazing to hear stories like you hear from these people. But, you know, really, the silent movies. And she's up in the little booth playing piano. Unfortunately, she actually developed crippling arthritis later in life, and she couldn't play the piano anymore. So Lauren, what she did was she put herself on a very particular diet of just whole foods. No artificial preservatives, no artificial colors. All, you know, whole grains, all natural stuff in the 70s. But way before this was actually really a thing. And she cured herself of this crippling, you know, rheumatism. And she was able to play the piano again and did so for much of her life. I remember a family wedding where we were on the dance floor. And, at this point she was in her, I think close to my mom's age or, or her mid 90s. And she was kicking up her foot to my shoulder height, on the dance floor at that age. So, you know, again, somebody who had suffered arthritis and she basically cured herself, you know, which was really incredible. It showed her, I guess, her resolve and determination as well. Yeah. And I want to stop right here and put, a little exclamation point on that, because anybody who listens to this podcast knows that that's what I eat a whole food plant based diet and that I actually reversed my heart disease with that. And I'm not surprised that she cured her inflammation because that's that's what she did. That hurt her joints, inflamed. And she so I just I want to, you know, I just want to highlight that because we talk about that all the time. Our whole food plant based diet, with whole grains and legumes and fruits and vegetables and, you know, and it's funny because a lot of these stories that you hear with, these super agers, super centenarians that you do often hear like, oh, I drink whiskey every day and I smoke a cigaret and I eat bacon. And, I mean, I feel like that's more not the norm, but I mean, yeah, you do hear them. You do hear them. And it's those people are kind of outliers there. It's very fun to, you know, hear people talk, you know, talk about that stuff. Oh, yeah. Even even John Kellerman, who lived to 122, had a, you know, a glass of port wine every evening with her meals, and she smoked up until up until just the last couple of years of her life, she smoked two lightly puffed cigarets a day, you know, so, I mean, you know, but clearly where we heard, you know, she had genetics going for her and so she was able to do those things. I have a friend who, whose grandfather lived to 108, and he, he used to drizzle his pancakes with bacon grease instead of maple sirup. And he still, you know, live that long. And so, you know, you obviously this is that. Yeah. I'm not recommending this. Right. I mean, this is not. No way. Totally. You know, but he but, you know, I think that just speaks to, you know, genetics and the fact that he, he just was wired genetically to live that long to the point where his, his body could actually overcome that kind of abuse, and maybe he would have lived longer had he just stuck with the maple sirup. Right. Exactly. Who knows? But, wait, so some of the other things, one of the quotes in the book that I just loved was loneliness acts as a fertilizer for other diseases. I thought that was so powerful because, you know, that is one of the things that you hear in and you talk about the blue zones and kind of some of the midst of the blue zones. But that is one of the things that I think we got out of that whole blue zone thing was the sense of community and people checking on each other and having a glass of wine with each other at night. And, can you can you talk about some of the other things like that? That. Sure. Well, just a word about loneliness. Yeah. Loneliness is is a big deal, you know, I mean, you may recall that the US surgeon general two years ago, declared loneliness to be a public health crisis. And, said that being chronically lonely, is the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarets a day, which is a lot, and can take as much as 15 years off of our lifespan. So, you know, it's this is a big deal, being a lonely. This is not the same, by the way, as being, as enjoying solitude or being introverted or, you know, I mean, if that's your natural inclination. But this is, you know, loneliness in this, sense is, you know, desperately craving human contact and not having it. And this can occur in cities, by the way. I mean, you could be desperately lonely in a in New York, a city of 10 million people, without any, you know, real, you know, human connection. As much as you could be, you know, out in the country or, you know, up on a hill with your house on two acres, you know, all by yourself. Yeah. So that's that's a that's a problem. I mean, you know, there's, there's robots like. That's one, aren't there? Robots, like, stepping into. Yeah. To take care of some of this. Like caring for elderly. I mean, I know that's not ideal, but if you really have no one and, you know, they're lonely, I mean, obviously that's not your go to, but yeah, I think, I mean, Japan is the oldest, you know, per capita, the oldest nation on Earth. And and they, they're being incredibly innovative. And some of the work they're doing with, artificial intelligence and, and robotics so that they have, you know, a people are beginning to acquire robots in their homes, who can, remind them to take their meds and engage them in conversation? Yeah, that kind of thing. And I think, you know, obviously we're hurtling into, you know, an exciting new world where robots will maybe become more companion like since then and even that. But for me, honestly, Lauren, there's no substitute for the the milk of human kindness and the actual space time of. And I might talk about, you know, the face time on your phone. I mean, like actual space time with, with another human being. And, you know, so this is where, this this really, in the same way when I was a foreign correspondent in, in Vienna, I oversaw, Eastern Europe, our coverage of Eastern Europe and in Romania, you know, the horrible story of those orphanages they had during communism and these little kids who just languished, all by themselves in almost in cages and stuff. And just because they didn't have the, you know, the that, that, that warmth and that and the cuddling and the just the attention, they, you know, they they died many times. You know, we just we're just wired to be with each other. Yeah. We're made to be with and, yes. And that was horrific. And I also, talking about Japan, don't they have, they call them baby workers, like in the old age homes. That. That's great. I'm sure they're not actual baby workers. Well, it's. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a cute little name. They have for them, but what this is, is a, and I talk about it in the book is, a kind of a program where, little kids, you know, like 3 or 4 years old, are brought into senior living centers and they play and interact with the older folks, including people in their hundreds and, and it's it's wonderful that the little kids get, you know, get some, some, sense of what it's like to be older and, and ask questions and, and of course, the, the older adults are absolutely thrilled to be around all that life and the, the parents who are, whose kids are enrolled in this program are paid with baby formula and, diapers and, you know, and stuff like that. So they, you know, so it's kind of a win win, you know, it's I mean, these are wonderful programs that, I think anything that puts the generations together is, is a win, you know? Yeah. And our country is the worst at that. Right. Are isn't the United States. You said the most segregated age wise. Yeah. You know, that's where we're really not. That's another thing we're not doing well. We're not doing it too well. You know, we've we do isolate a lot. We are very isolated, economically. One of the things I love about my home city, Providence, Rhode Island, is that it's a very multiethnic, multicultural city. It's a heavily Latino city. And so you've got multi-generational homes where where you know, you've got, abuelo and abuela, the grandparents living with, you know, their, their kids and then their grandkids, and people just do life together. And, of course, the grandparents are able to look after the little ones so that mom and dad can go to work and when, when the grandparents need care and attention. You know, there are two other generations looking after them, and it's beautiful. And, you know, again, we have this somehow, you know, the American dream, is that, you know, we we buy a big house on two acres and we're all by ourselves and we age in opulence. But, you know, that can be a very lonely outcome for many people. And, I just love what I see around me in Providence and and many other cities like that. Yeah, yeah. You actually mentioned another one in the book, in Portland, Oregon, that it was, a multigenerational community that had affordable housing for seniors, foster children and their family. I love that that is it's a beautiful housing idea. It really solves a lot of problems, doesn't it? Does it does because these kids need, you know, guardians and people to help guide them through their lives. And then the the older adults, you know, need somebody to do for them as well. And so it's, it really is, just a completely beautiful win win. Yeah. Okay. So we've covered, you know, stress and health care and, you know, having enough money to take care of yourself and multigenerational and not being lonely. What what are some other things that help us to live? Well, we we did we haven't talked much about money. And that's a big, big deal, right? I mean, I think top of mind for anyone who is contemplating living to 100 or beyond is where the hell am I going to get enough money to pay a century's worth of bills? And I know that's something I thought of as the grandson of a centenarian. And my mom is now 94. And, you know, I clearly there's some decent genes. I also, you know, eat well and exercise. I'm a marathon runner and I've done, you know, so like I, you know, I and I tell people a lot Lauren you may live to 100 whether you like it or not. You know, based on your, your genetics and just the fact that you're, you know, you, you know, you're not smoking anymore. You're doing, you're taking care of yourself. And again, society has is is helping you handle disease and other setbacks. Excuse me, but I think, yeah, money is a big problem. I mean, AARP does these regular, surveys to see how financially prepared or not we are. You know, for our latter years. And it's horrific to read these these surveys. I mean, the, the median amount of money that, Americans have saved for retirement is $30,000, which is absolutely nothing. You know, nothing. And I think I read recently that, 1 in 4 people, age 55 or older in the United States has nothing set aside, for retirement at all. So that's a problem. So here's Will, and let me just break it down. If I might for a second. Yeah. You live to what if you're if we're going to live to 100, we're probably not going to retire at 65. You know, we're going to need to keep working because we're going to be living longer, and we're going to have to, you know, you know, we we're going to have financial obligations longer in life so that, you know, then suddenly we we're we're working into our 80s, instead of our 60s. And that's deeply problematic. It's fine for maybe you and I, if we have sedentary jobs at a desk and in an air conditioned environment. But what if you're a landscaper or in construction or agriculture or any number of, you know, you can't. You just can't do that work, in your 80s or even 70s. So it's it really is, you know, troubling. I think, to me and I, I wonder also, you know, we're unfortunately, these trend lines are coinciding with climate change. And so suddenly you're going to have a 70 something or early 80 something construction worker trying to frame a house. And, you know, instead of it being 90 degrees in the summer, it's going to be 110. I mean, what's that going to be like? So I think, you know, these are these are kind of I think, you know, honestly, when I imagine the super aging era that we're already in, you know, I see a mixture of brightness and bleakness. And this is definitely in the bleakness column, how we're going to how we're going to make it, you know, to 100, and one last thought, and I'll and I'll pause is, you know, generational wealth. I mean, many, many of us have in, you know, enjoyed that. And we've been, you know, we've received an inheritance that's enabled us to buy our first home or pay for a college education for our kids or for ourselves. I don't know what's going to happen to generational wealth if we're all living to 100 and we need our, you know, every last dime just to, you know, get to the finish line. So that is something to think about. Yeah. I mean, it really is because, I know your mom's still alive. Yeah. She's. How old? What, in her 1994. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, my mom just passed not too long ago. And she had these two long term care insurance policies. And thank God, because I cannot tell you how much it costs for this woman to live the last years of her life. It was kind of criminal, with all the help she needed. It was hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. And because, I mean, you know, she was able to be in a nice place with a lot of care that she really did need because she had these two incredible policies. But if she hadn't had those, I, I literally don't know what she would have been in some crap hole Medicaid bed. You know, it would have been a really sad, sad thing. Yeah. And, but those are cheap. Either those policies aren't cheap, you know? No, they're not cheap. And I can guarantee you they don't make the kind of policy that she had anymore because she was getting, she was just getting money for for being a homemaker or, you know, they were just giving her money, like, $4,000 a month just for being, It was incredible. On top of all the care that she was getting, it was right. And like I said, she had two of them. So I do not know what she would have done without them. And it cost an incredible amount of money to be unhealthy. So it's one thing if you're going to be a healthy centenarian, it's another thing if you're going to be unhealthy. Absolutely. That's a great point. You know, well, we talk a lot about lifespan, but we really need to be talking about health span. In other words, the number of years that we're in good shape and we can actually enjoy these bonus years and not be, you know, you know, in health care situations all the time. So, I mean, that that for me is key. And if you know, people often ask me, Bill, do you want to live to 100? And of course, like anybody else, my answer is it depends. I mean, you know, if I'm going to be in good shape, y'all. Look, I'm, I'm under no illusions that I'll be running marathons at 100, but I'd sure like to be able to walk around the block. And you know, smell the roses and and I'd love to, you know, get not for nothing. Right. But I'd love to have my mental faculties intact and not be, you know, ravaged by dementia and so forth. So these are things that, you know, it's kind of scary. But I do think, you know, it's not inevitable, but one of the this might be a good, good point to just sort of pivot a little bit because some of these things we're talking about are kind of dark. Dark. Let's get the dark in here. Right? Yeah. Well, you started off talking about Jack Kevorkian. I think you sort of set the tone here, but, you know, listen, you know, Alzheimer's is is horrible. And my heart goes out to anybody who is, you know, got a loved one who's dealing with that. It's really rough. But it's not inevitable, as it turns out. And, you know, there are about 7 million, you know, older Americans who have Alzheimer's right now. And that's, you know, there are there you know, there are many, many millions more who are, you know, living without it. There was an interesting study done in the Netherlands that I write about in the book where, they took a look at, a population of centenarians. I think the youngest was 101 and the oldest was 107. And, these were these were, people in their hundreds who were living independently. So they they were already in pretty good shape. And they, you know, most of them had, they did cognitive testing on them. They they were doing great. They, they had the, you know, the recall and the cognitive function of somebody in, in their 50s or 60s with only just the normal sort of forgetfulness that we, you know, we all, you know, undergo, like, where the hell are my keys, that kind of thing. Yeah. And, and, you know, as part of the study, they agreed to have their brains, examined upon their eventual deaths. And here's where it gets really wild. They, you know, first of all, many of them had no signs of the plaques and tangles that, you know, in their brain tissue that are the sort of the calling cards of Alzheimer's disease. And then there was a portion of them who did have the plaques and tangles and scarring, but had never, you know, had any, symptoms of Alzheimer's. So, in other words, Alzheimer's was present in their brains, but it never manifested itself in, in any way in their lives. And they were in their hundreds. You can imagine how pharmaceutical companies are trying to unravel that, you know, and figure out, can I produce, you know, a medication that would duplicate whatever was going on there? And we're not there yet. But I think my my main point here is that there's hope. You know, that living so long doesn't mean that we're going to lose our marbles. And, you know, we're I mean, honestly, and, and, and and so then these could really be extra bonus years. Yeah. Yeah. Did they what did they attribute that to? Was it, was it the way they were living was a community or. It's still being they're still trying to figure it out to be honest. Trying to figure it out. You know, there's no there was no clear throughline, through all of those interesting. But certainly they were doing well. So, you know, it may, you know, there may have been a little selection bias there in the sense that they were already living independently. But, you know, I think, you know, this just speaks to, anything we can do now to take good care of ourselves, of care of our, of our, of our brains and our bodies is going to really set us up well for the 100 year life. And, you know, I there's also this life expectancy calculator in the book. So people after the podcast could go to living to 101 hundred is just the number arcom living to 100. And I did it and I'm close to you. We're going to be alive together. I got 101. You got 102. But like you said, this is it's only good news if you're going to be healthy. So we have to take care of ourselves. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And so, I think it was, Doctor Thomas Perls, who runs the New England Centenarian Study. And so he studied about 200 people who have exceeded the super centenarian age of 110 or older. Right. And so what can you tell us about that? That's cuckoo. Well, it is it's crazy. He he actually has, something like 3500 centenarians, in his study. So the including those who are, you know, from, 100 to 109, and, you know, all together. And then there's a smaller portion, of course, of those who are 110 plus, he actually, had has had so many people, interested in becoming part of his study at Boston University that he has had to turn people away unless they're at least 103. And he told me in, in an interview for the book, these are not people who are used to being told you are too young, you know, so, you know, at 101, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're merely 150. You can't get it, you know, but come back when you're 103. You actually can take more now because he's, you know, the interesting all of this has grown so much and he's gotten some really great grants and things and funding. So he's been able to add some, some, grad students and other staff, and now they can handle, you know, the, the group they have by finding out. Well, he's just, you know, he's trying to unravel the secrets of, of of these folks and, and and part of that is doing an extensive, genealogical study looking at the siblings of, centenarians, trying to see, you know what? What you know what, common traits they have and so forth. And again, you know, they, they, you know, these people do a very good job, of handling stress, which is probably the the key thing. You know, it's funny, Laura and I was thinking about this, I think just yesterday I was reading about a 103 year old Holocaust survivor who just died, and she had done remarkable work in her career. And I thought to myself, wow, talk about toxic stress. You know, I mean, you know, going through that experience and and yet still living into your one hundreds I mean, that person must have been incredibly optimistic and, and hopeful, you know. So, yes. Yeah. You talk about optimism and hopefulness, too, a lot in the book with, especially with Jane Goodall, who. Yeah, I love the example of aging. Oh my gosh. And she's tell us the do you remember the difference what she says between hope and optimism or I that kind of written down if you don't. Yeah. Does she know. Yeah. She distinguishes between the two. But if you have it written down, you'll help me out with my own senior moment, because I, I wouldn't remember it either. But she said, hope and optimism are not the same. This is Jane Goodall, guys. So she's she's. No, she's no schlep her here. A lot of optimism could be in the genes. It seems you have an optimistic nature, but that can also be cultivated in the child. For me, hope is different. I'm optimistic that everything's going to be all right. But hope? Yes. You want it to be all right. You see a goal. There's a dark tunnel, but in the end, there's a little gleam of light. We can only if we can only get there. And that's hope. And if we can get there, we can do our very best. Hope is determined by action. That's my definition. So that was what Jane Goodall. Yeah. That there's a difference between hope and optimism. Hope you're going to hope it's okay. Yeah yeah yeah. Absolutely. And she's a she is truly inspiring. You know she's 91 just turned 91 last month. She's traveling more than she ever has. You know, of course, she, she, she became, famous worldwide for working in her in her 30s. You know, studying the chimpanzees in Tanzania and, you know, and is just an incredible author and, and just an incredible human. It was the privilege of my life to to spend an hour interviewing her. And, Yeah, she's still going strong. She's she's incredible. She she is really, you know, my sort of, she's kind of like a, I want to say poster child, but she's a poster grown up for what? What? You know what her long and full life can look like? Yeah. I actually, ask some questions at the end of the podcast of a lot of people, and I, they ask, who do you admire for aging well? And Jane Goodall and Jane Fonda come up quite a bit. The two Jane's. Yeah. And, yeah, for good reason. Is that who you would say you admire for their. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But there's one woman that really kind of, you know, intrigued me and and really stunned me. And I write about her in the book Hurl the Sand House. Who, just passed away last year. She was 113. I interviewed her, spent spend an afternoon with her, for the book. She, first of all, she was black. So she was already an outlier, a remarkable person. She grew up during, you know, under Jim Crow, underwent lots of stress in her life and somehow was able to overcome all of that. And incredibly effervescent person. Just bubbly. Funny. She, very active and social. She she used to go play the slots at this casino on the outskirts of Boston and, you know, and, you know, I mean, you know, and people would she tell people people ask her, how old are you? And she'd say, 112. That's how she was when I met her. And they would say, P.S. you're not, you know, and they take a selfie with her. And then and then they'd go, you know, go online and realize, oh my God, she really is 112 years, you know, but she was, you know, she she was just an incredible person, very, very social, you know, and, and incredibly good shape. I mean, I was, you know, looking at my notes and fumbling with my glasses, you know, she was she had, 50 years on me in, you know, 50 years my senior. And she didn't wear glasses at all. So, you know, I mean, it's what I was this happen? Yeah, I know I it's just so, you know, but I think, you know, really her her, her attitude and just her, you know, was just so, so fun. And, as I write in the book about her, that when I walked into her apartment, I heard giggling. And I thought for a minute that there was, like a sitcom on TV, and she was watching, and it was just her. She was. And it wasn't that she was, you know, goofy or anything. She just was delighted to see me. And there was just this beautiful musical giggle that she would, you know, let out, just an absolutely beautiful person inside and out and, yeah. So, you know, again, this is, you know, for me, life at its essence is is about time. It's time to to live, time to laugh, time to love. And, if we can take good care of ourselves and each other and live into our one hundreds, you know, we have more time to to do the things we we love and to be with the people we love. So that your big takeaway. Yeah. What are what is your big takeaway? I mean, you know, I think again, there's bleakness and brightness. You know, for me, you know, we only get one life. I want my life to be as long and as full and as healthy as it can be. I think we all want that. And I'm encouraged that, you know, honestly, in spite of, you know, our world being a hot mess, you know, the trend lines are actually, you know, giving us more time. And, what are we going to do with it? You know, let's, let's, let's have purpose and let's, you know, let's make the most of it. Another person I'll mention, you know, I know we're we're coming to the end of our of our chat, but, you know, there was a woman who just died, recently called Julia Hurricane Hawkins. That was her nickname, Hurricane Hawkins. And she she she took up track and field, after she turned 100. I think she just died at, like, 108. But she was. She said that about her? Yeah. She set world records on the track and the 100m, and, you know, she she was competing out there. I mean, what an inspiration. You know, absolutely incredible. And, you know, there are people like that. There's a judge, a federal judge who, you know, lived well into his his one hundreds and still, sat on the federal bench and would take the stairs to his fourth floor chambers and, you know, these are people who absolutely inspire me. Yeah. That's incredible. I want to be like them when I grow up, you know? Yeah. For sure. I mean, that's what we. I think that's the goal. If you're going to live a long time, you want to be like that. So, I mean, we we probably covered this, but what do you think your best one piece of advice for aging well would be, just take care of yourself. Now, you know that my dad used to tell me, and I think this was also one of the most the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten was, there are no guarantees, just opportunities. We're not promised a 100 year life, at all. And we're not promised an easy life. But there are, you know, we have a lot that we can do. Our through our, our diet, our exercise, sun exposure, all kinds of things that are in our control to optimize our organism to actually do well, into our hundreds. But that starts now, you know, it starts now. We're at whatever point you are in your in your life's journey. Take good care of yourself, because you might need this body in this brain for a long time, more than you can imagine. We know. Yes, that's good advice. So you're saying get some sun exposure? No, I'm saying be careful about your sun exposure. I mean, oh, be careful of the sun. I mean, I live in New England, you know, I, I'm in the Ocean State, Rhode Island. We can actually, have too much sun exposure. And then we have melanomas and all kinds of other things. It's something we don't think about all the time. Sleep hygiene. You know, another thing we all we. Yes, I that's another thing. Well, you know, we like we have this what we say in the United States. We say, I'll sleep when I'm dead. Well, guess what? If you don't get good sleep, good. You know, good nourishing, you know, sleep. You'll probably die before you should. Because, you know, we need this to regenerate and give our brains time to sort of, you know, recharge and our bodies as well. So these are things we have control over. These things. You know, our behaviors account for about 75% of what gets us to 90. And the genes account for the other 25%. And I always tell people, you can't live to 100 if you don't make it to 90. So, you know, that's right, 75% is a lot. That's a lot of control. You know, it's not just, you know, picking good parents, as I like to joke, you know, but, the decisions we make every day about how we're going to eat and, whether we're going to, you know, drink too much or pick up a cigaret or whatever or, you know, I mean, there's a hundred decisions we make every day, and it's all part of the calculus of, you know, what kind of shape we're going to be in. Yeah. Yeah. And, we didn't even get to talk about faith. I know that's an important one. And did you want to say anything about the, the Blue zones? Because, you know, people just believe that we they're chunking out centenarians, and that's kind of a myth. You want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Just briefly, just to recap for our listeners, the blue zones are five places in the world where, it is said that, there are many more people living to 100, than anywhere else. And these these five places are, Okinawa, Japan, the Ikaria, the island of Ikaria in in Greece, Sardinia, Italy and other island, the Nicoya Peninsula and Costa Rica. And the only one in the United States, Loma Linda, California. And actually, in truth, there are not more people living to 100 in these places, but they do have, larger populations of people living in very good shape into their 90s. And we can learn a lot from, from them. So, you know, we we kind of touched on some of this stuff, but, you know, the, the, mostly, vegetarian diet, or the Mediterranean diet that we've, you know, read so much about is very beneficial. Whole grains, you know, easy on I read me. Yeah. Fruits, vegetables, beans, all this stuff. And, you know, they are also moving gently through their environments. They're not running marathons like like some of us do, or, you know, but rather just gently walking and moving and and exercising and, gardening, water gardening. And then they're, you know, they're also living in community, you know, getting together, sharing meals, sharing a glass of wine, doing life together, which probably of all three of those may be actually the most important one. But yeah, there's there are definitely traits we can, we can see and take away from from these populations having passion. They, they do because, yeah, they have like a faith and also more of a wee attitude than a me attitude. I think that's right, that's right, that's right. I talked about that in the book. There are we cultures, and they're very invested in what's good for all of us, you know, rather than what's good for me, myself and I. Yeah, right. Having a purpose in life. Yeah. So I think that those are all really good. That's some good advice for for living well in aging. Well, do you have anything else or do we kind of get to it? I think so much you guys should read this book. It's a great book. Thank you. I think I hope you do. Yeah. The big 100. Yeah. A new world of super aging. Yes. And again, like I said, you you may live to 100 whether you like it or not. So, you know, read up and see how how you might be able to optimize, the, those extra years. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing with us, Bill. It's been really fun talking to you. May you live 100 years, Lord. Thank you. You too. You want to? Five. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.