Kim Vopni - Honest Talk About Bladder Leaks, Organ Prolapse, and Constipation with Real Solutions from the Vagina Coach

Kim Vopni, the Vagina Coach, discusses the importance of understanding pelvic health throughout various life stages, including pregnancy, postpartum recovery, and menopause. Kim talks about the significance of pelvic floor therapy and the often-overlooked issues of incontinence and prolapse. She gives us real-life solutions to bladder leaks, constipation, and what to do about painful sex. Did you know that red light therapy can be used for your vagina? Pelvic floor issues are serious because incontinence is linked to aging and can lead to hip fractures. Who knew?

https://www.vaginacoach.com/

https://www.instagram.com/vaginacoach/

https://www.youtube.com/c/KimVopniTheVaginaCoach/videos

email: lauren@agelikeabadassmother.com

Subscribe to the Age Like a Badass Mother YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@agelikeabadassmother

Download Lauren's Free Cookbook, Cook Your Way to Health with Well Elephant https://wellelephant.com/

#PelvicFloorHealth, #WomensWellness, #HealthyAging, #VaginaCoach, #PainfulSex, #UrinaryIncontinence, #MenopauseSupport, #PelvicHealth, #AgeLikeABadass, #AntiAgingPodcast, #health, #wellness, #mentalhealth,

Transcript

0:00

Hi friend. Kim Vaught, aka the vagina coach talked to us today about pelvic floor health. Who hasn't had that embarrassing moment when you've sneezed, coughed or laughed and leaked a little urine? The bad news is that, left unchecked, it gets worse over time. The good news is that Kim is going to give us specific steps to fix these issues. And at the end of the conversation, she addresses the issue of painful sex and tells us what we can do about that. This is a conversation that you might want to share with your daughter or your mother, if you're lucky enough to have those people in your life, because she covers all phases of life and you can watch this podcast on YouTube or Spotify, and please follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And thank you for listening. I hope that you can feel the love and appreciation that I have for you. I truly and deeply mean that. Thank you. Hi friends, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing. Welcome to the anti Anti-Aging podcast. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Kim Thorpe NE is a certified fitness professional and menopause support practitioner known as the Vagina Coach. She became passionate about spreading information on pelvic health after the birth of her first child over 20 years ago. Kim is a sought after speaker, a women's health educator, and the author of three books. She began her work with the prenatal and postpartum population, where she founded her own business and co-founded a second company called Bellies, Inc.. She now works primarily with women in the perimenopause and post menopause phases of life. Doctors and physical therapists are always referring their clients to her buff muff method as the go to pelvic health resource that allows women from around the world to find support through workouts, challenges, and group coaching. Kim also certifies other fitness and movement professionals to work with women with core and pelvic floor challenges through her Buff Muff Method Practitioner certification. You can find her online through her podcast, Between Two Lips. Her website at Vagina coach.com and on social media at Vagina Coach. Please welcome the vagina coach. Kim. Me. Thank you so much. I appreciate your intro. Oh. Thank you. So I just want to start by kind of getting you to to give us your background a little bit. I mean, did you want to be a vagina coach when you were growing up? No, not at all. No, I wanted to be a dolphin trainer. Actually, that was my right dream. I mean, my little Kim. Yeah, I think that's common. Yeah. Okay, so how did you get from dolphin coach to vagina coach? Well, it was, it was a fear of childbirth. Really? So I grew up thinking I was never going to have babies. And then when I did decide I wanted to start a family, I was determined to have a different story than my mom. So my mom, my mom was an owner. She was very open with my brother and I with anatomy, and she always allowed questions. And and when I would ask her, you know, why is your back hurt? Why aren't you running anymore? I you know, it was always childbirth and I leak urine. And so she had, surgery for incontinence. She had a hysterectomy. She had chronic back pain, and it she so stated and tied it into childbirth. And so I grew up thinking, well, I don't want to do any of that. And that was that. So then when I was pregnant, decided I did want to go down that path, I was determined up a different story than my mom's. My wives had recommended a product to me called the App You Know, which is a biofeedback device to help facilitate sensations of birth and help people understand how to connect with their pelvic floor prior to birthing their baby. And so this made sense to me being a personal trainer. Stretching and strengthening in preparation for a physical event was was logical to me and what I was already doing, and so I used this. I had a great experience. And then I thought, well, why doesn't everybody know about this? And maybe I should help spread the word. And I contacted the company and said, can I be a distributor in Canada? And they said, sure. And I didn't intend for it to be a business. I thought, I'll just sell it on the side to friends and through my midwives. And anyway, now it's 21 years later and that's how it started. So initially it was working with pregnant women. I created a program called Prepare to Push, and I wanted to help educate women on the pelvic floor prior to actually giving birth, knowing that that was one of the major contributors to pelvic floor dysfunction. And then afterwards I started to notice that, okay, I'm helping them prepare, but now we're completely overlooking this postpartum recovery phase. And in North America, we have to look not pregnant as fast as possible and get back to the gym right away. And and looking at what other cultures are doing. And they honor that recovery. Very they covet that first 40 days. This is a is a very common, time frame. So that's where Bellies Inc came in. We wanted to optimize postpartum recovery and use pelvic floor and restorative exercise, plus wrapping the belly wrapping and pelvis wrapping afterwards as a way to help the tissues heal. Then I started to go through my own perimenopause journey, not knowing what perimenopause was and now post menopause. And that was a whole other phase of life where other challenges show up with the pelvic floor, some exacerbated of things that are already happening or some are new. And so I had this, you know, recognition that the pelvic floor is not something we only pay attention to when we're pregnant or only postpartum. This is something that we really need to understand how as we evolve through our different phases, how we can help optimize the health of our pelvic floor as well. And initially I was working with pregnant women and new moms. I was the fitness doula and then when I started working more with this perimenopause menopause population, doula didn't resonate as much. I knew I needed a bit of a brand shift. And so when I was speaking to a group of women at an entrepreneur conference, I came up on stage as a presenter. All the other presenters were like a finance coach, marketing coach, strategy coach, and I joked, now you have a vagina coach. And and that joke then became the brand shift that I needed. That was about eight years ago. So no, wasn't my lifelong dream to become a vagina coach now? What kind of like happened accidentally on purpose? I yeah, it just sounds like it really was kind of meant to be, but. Okay, I have two questions. What? What is belly wrapping? Quickly. What is that? Sorry. What's your second question? Well, I was going to ask about the changes that happened to your pelvic floor during perimenopause and and post menopause. So belly wrapping is, many cultures in the world will use this. Sometimes we'll call it belly binding. And it's in like, for instance, in Southeast Asia. I lived in Southeast Asia when I was in high school. And, they have something called ping pong wrapping, which is layers of usually cotton cloth. And they will tie multiple layers, usually from just under the rib cage to down below the pelvis in with the intention of quote unquote, closing the body. So in pregnancy and birth, there's a lot of adaptation to make room for, babe, to prepare the body for birth. We we need to allow the pelvic floor to relax and open to, to birth our baby. So there's the thought of our body has opened. It is now prone to in Chinese medicine, they talk about being prone to wind or cold, and we need to then close the body and keep the body warm. There's a practice called Mother warming, to prevent cold from coming into this body that is open to allow birth. And, wrapping is a way like the other kind of I want to say, I like I use the term lovingly and I'm a total woowoo person, but less sort of spiritual and more biomechanical. We look at within the pelvis, we have a certain alignment of our bones that create what's called form closure. Then we have the muscles that surround our pelvis, including our abdomen, that provide force closure. So the way that the muscles work, they help provide stability by contracting and relaxing. The alignment of the bones also provide stability inherently of how they are aligned. Those are both disrupted from pregnancy and childbirth that form and force closure. The pelvis widens, the joints become more relaxed, the muscle bellies have stretched. So our ability to manage, load and create stability after we've given birth, even if we've had the most perfect birth in the world, is hindered. And by helping close that foot with a form and force closure when we use wrapping, it helps with that. While we rebuild our internal support with exercise. So that makes sense. Yeah, and I'm just kind of thinking about all these other cultures that really honor the new mother, like you said, with with all these, you know, just things that they do for the new mother, like the belly wrapping. And then it's the ceremony and traditions. We are very much doing that. Yeah. We don't do that. I mean, I, I know I was like vacuuming with a new baby in my arms like days after I like, yeah. It's just so sad. I feel like we're just so missing out and then, you know, and I. Yeah. Your your experience with what changed with your. Yeah. So for me, I had even before a paramedic because I, I after the birth of my second baby, I did deal with stress urinary incontinence. And then a little while I would say closer to kind of the start of my perimenopause journey. I developed a stage two uterine prolapse and a stage two reconcile, which is type of organ prolapse. And so again, kind of highlighting that it isn't just about doing some Kegels or using the epi know product in your pregnancy and preventing tearing. I didn't have any tearing. So I was like, okay, I'm good. It then became, well, hold on a minute, I didn't tear, so why am I still dealing with incontinence? Or why do I have prolapse? And it's so multifaceted. So again, it was an expansion of awareness for me that this isn't just about a couple Kegel exercises or here you use this product while you're pregnant. And so and then as I was going through perimenopause, I also started to struggle with constipation for the first time in my life. And I had not changed anything. So I was like, well, I still exercise and still drink water, still eat healthily. Why am I all of a sudden constipated and with the hormonal upheaval? And also I was dealing with a thyroid condition that I didn't know about. I all of a sudden had constipation, which was now exacerbating these prolapse symptoms that I, that I was dealing with. So I didn't get to the point of having the classic vaginal dryness that a lot of people will, will experience. But, but just recognizing and starting to work with this population more than the pre postnatal, I was starting to learn more about how people have ignored their incontinence, didn't even know they had prolapse. But now that they reach this and maybe struggle with hormones, or maybe they struggle with constipation, are now dealing with the symptoms showing up for the first time or symptoms that are worsening in that low estrogen state associated with menopause. And just so everybody knows, I bought Kim's course because I wanted to familiarize myself with it. And of course, you know, I, I've had three kids and I have I don't have a super bad situation, but for sure when I sneeze, sometimes I pee on myself or, absolutely. If I'm throwing up, I am full on peeing on myself because, you know, you're just, like, bearing down and, you know, just like occasional things. But I'm smart enough to know that this is not going to get better with time. This is only going to get worse. And I'm the kind of person who likes to, you know, get ahead of it and and take control. And so I started doing your course and it's very good. I love first of all, I love everything about it. I love the name, I love the birth muff method. I mean, that's so good. But so but you know, you really explain things very well. And I think everybody's sort of familiar with their pelvic floor. But before we get like too into it, could you maybe go into that like even today I'm sitting, I'm more conscious about how I'm sitting because I want to sit on my perineum and, and I learned that from you. And so I'm like, okay, let me and my sitz bones. So like, let me make sure I'm sitting on all the stuff down here. So can you kind of get into that a little bit before we. Oh, I love that you're I love that you've learned something. I love that you're putting it into action and little things like that, that we have no idea that they can influence the function of our pelvic floor. And there I would say it's starting to be talked about, but still people they they haven't heard the term pelvic floor. They don't know what the pelvic floor is. Is that my vagina, is it my vulva? Sometimes they don't even know that the vulva and vagina are different things. And so I do think that there is a lack of, of awareness or education. There definitely is a lack of education about what the pelvic floor is. So it's a if if you right now, wherever you are sitting or standing, if you put your hands on your hips like it's if you're very cross the tops of the pelvis, those are your pelvic bones. And now put your fingers down at the front of people will say the pubic bone. It's actually a joint there. So that's, one attachment point for your pelvic floor muscles. Now if you lift up one butt cheek and pull the flesh away and you'll feel the bone dig around, you'll feel a bony point. If you would find one on either side, that's an attachment point for your pelvic floor. Same thing on the other side. And then at the base of our spine, we have a triangular bone called the sacrum. And at the very end of the sacrum we have our tailbone or our coccyx. And that's also an attachment point of the pelvic floor. So the pubic joint, the tailbone, the two sit bones make sort of like a diamond shape but closes off the outlet or the opening of the pelvis. So it's the floor of our of our pelvis. It's multiple layers. It's not just one muscle. It's, three different layers. The first layer primarily responsible for sexual response. Second layer primarily responsible for managing our continents. The openings of the urethra, the vagina, the anus. Third layer primarily responsible for supporting our internal organs the bladder, the uterus, rectum, the pelvic floor. Also, because of its attachment points on the spine in the pelvis, play a role in our pelvic and spinal control and stability. So it's the foundation of our of our core. We've all heard of core exercise, and it also works in synergy with our diaphragm. So every time we're breathing in, there should be a reciprocal response in the pelvic floor where it lengthens and expands. And every time we exhale, it contracts and lifts. And that synergy between the diaphragm pelvic floor create blood flow, circulation, movement of lymph through the body. And it's it helps with digestion. But things that we do in life, things that happen to us in life can interfere or disrupt function, that synergy, it could influence the attachment points for the pelvic floor muscles. We may have scar tissue from childbirth, so we may have tight muscles from fear, trauma, posture. We may struggle with constipation that could be damaging to the pelvic floor, or it could be a result of a tight pelvic floor. So we're going to go into more of all that. But it's it's a group of muscles, highly vascular ligaments nerves, tendons all the things. But it's something we don't see. It's on the inside. We can go to the mirror in the gym and we can see that we are flexing our biceps, or we could see our calves or our quadriceps. We can't see our pelvic floor, we only see our external genitalia. So connecting with this group of muscles sometimes requires different positioning, different cueing, different visualization, biofeedback, maybe for people to understand the movement and the synergy that this group of muscles has with our breath. Yeah. It's so interesting when you're saying, the pubic bone is not really a bone, it's a joint that just like, made me think, oh, that explains every time. Before I knew I was pregnant, that started aching like, throbbing and that was one after the after the first time, I was like, oh, I remember this feeling. I wonder if I'm pregnant again. That was my first clue. And so that's interesting. That you said I never realized that was a joint, but it makes sense. And so you keep you've mentioned prolapse a couple of times. I mean, I guess most people know what prolapse is. It feels like it's falling out. Is that or am I can, you know, if you don't know it? Okay. Maybe I don't even know what it is. I think I do, but can you talk about that a little. What's what's prolapse? Pelvic organ prolapse is where the bladder the uterus and or the rectum. Sometimes the intestines can shift out of their proper anatomical position. And Belgian to or descend into the vagina. So in the case of, I can use my, my sweater, pretend this is the tube of your vagina. For those who can't, can't see, just just visualize a tube as your vagina. And you guys can can watch on YouTube and Spotify. Yeah, fine. Okay. Above the tube, you would have your, your cervix and your uterus, the front wall of the vagina, you would have your bladder on the on the up. Obviously not in the vagina ideally. But here we are on the front side and on the back. We would have our rectum. So we have those organs kind of nestled in there, the tube of the vagina. We also have the urethra and we have an anus. So we have those three openings down below. And organ prolapse occurs where that for instance, the bladder will bulge into the front wall of the vagina. The uterus can descend from the top down the rectum can bulge into the back wall of the vagina. So a bladder prolapse can be called bladder prolapse. Anterior wall prolapse. Sister seal A uterine prolapse is typically a uterine or a womb prolapse. The rectum is called a rectal seal or a posterior wall. Prolapse A rectal prolapse is where the rectum can bulge out the anus, and that's something that can happen in both male and female anatomy. And 50% of women who have given birth will have some degree of prolapse. Early stage prolapse is often asymptomatic, so screening with a pelvic floor physical therapist once a year, which is my absolute top recommendation, always is a way that we can be informed and catch things earlier before they become an issue, knowing that it is so common. If we can catch it early, or we can be in a position of definitely preventing it from getting worse, improving it, and potentially even reversing it. Okay. And so if yeah, I've heard you mention this a few times, a pelvic floor therapist, I didn't even know there was such a thing. And so you. Hi. You're you're very pro pelvic floor therapist. Thousand percent. Yeah. Okay. So I am not a pelvic floor physical therapist. I'm a personal trainer. A pelvic four physical therapist is a physical therapist who has taken additional training in the pelvic floor. And they are licensed to evaluate and treat beyond the opening of the vagina and the anus. And that happens with, gloved fingers. And, a rectal evaluation is not always part of, the evaluation, depending on what the person is, is dealing with. But they look at they are trained just like a regular physical therapist. They look at orthopedics, they look at your posture, they look at how you're moving. They look at your joints, mobility, all of that. Then they also look and can help understand the internal musculature. And if that is playing a role in your hip pain, your back pain, your knee pain, your continence, your ability to support your organs. And I truly think they are the most valuable. They are the definitely the most missed, used or underused women's health resource that we have. As you say, you've never heard of it. Yeah. They to me, it's essential. And I really, truly think it would change the world. It would save the government billions of dollars if we had if we knew about this, and we were told about it earlier in life, and we went as part of our annual health check. Yeah. You're in Canada, right? Yes. Yeah. It's we have we have quite the health health care system here where, you know, it's hard because you have to pay for every little thing. And I don't know how how it is with you guys, but that's certainly not going to be included, you know, in any kind of insurance company here I am not and our, our free health care that everybody thinks is so great, we have to wait multiple years to even get a consultation for. Oh, wow. Therapy. Yeah. Like I am still, I have a torn, completely torn ligament in my foot that will require surgical repair. It is coming up on two years for me even just to have a console with a surgeon. Oh, because it's free, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's always something. Okay. So but it's, you know, if it's something you can do for yourself, sounds like that you should. And you know, one of the things that I thought was really, interesting, you know, in your, in your program, like, you give so much advice before you even start, like, I haven't even started on any exercises yet because there's so much prep work, which I think is really good. It's very thorough. But you said something that there's a big connection between incontinence and hip fractures, and I found that to be fascinating, like balance in all those things so that if, if you're having that's that's again one of the reasons that I was like, you know, I have I definitely have my moments. And like I wore a pair of pink satin hot pink satin pants to a party. And I was like, okay, what if, you know, I don't usually think about like, oh, I should put a pad in or something. But I was like, well, hell, if I get a good sneeze at this party and I'm wearing these satin pants, I mean, you know, I'm going to think about that. So it's not enough where it's disrupting my life. But I think that everybody kind of needs to get a handle on this, whether, you know, you're just because you're post-menopausal or you've had some kids just know that it's probably not going to get better. But what is this correlation between hip fractures or balance with with your, with incontinence? A couple things I want to say and it will lead me to answering that. Okay. For sure. Don't wait for it to be like you say. It's not abolishment, not stripping my life. It kind of is. And it will not get better. And and why wait to the point where it's so bad, so take action now. And the other thing is when we were talking about cost. Yeah, it's a cost. And that is a barrier for some. But many people are spending hundreds of dollars per month on incontinence pads. Right. And so that's a good point. I'm sure you can people can spend upwards. I've done the math pad math. If they're starting leaking around 30 ish. They live to their 80s 90s, let's say that can be upwards of 70 to $80,000 that they spend on incontinence pads. One physical therapy appointment in person is typically around 150, 175, maybe 200 bucks. Not saying that's not expensive, but things like new moms put it on. Rather than getting a million sleepers for your baby, ask for a pelvic floor physical therapy appointment for your birthday for right? Like, oh, that's a good idea. That can be that can help your health rather than more things. Stop now getting to the point of, taking action. And even if you've paid just for that one session to understand the status of your pelvic floor and then be responsible going forward can make a big difference. Because incontinence is the link, there is not so much that if you're, well, there's many different links. If you're leaking, it could be tight muscles. Tight muscles can limit hip mobility. Tight muscles don't allow for the proper response of the pelvic floor to manage, the urethra and the sphincters. It can also be the rushing to the bathroom, and especially as we are in an aging population, if somebody is feeling like they need to rush to the bathroom, and especially if they're waking multiple times a night to pee to do that, and they have not been paying attention to their core and their posture along the way, there, they are more likely to trip, to stumble, to fall, and many people have also avoided impact in jumping and resistance training, which build bones because of their pelvic floor. So they are now osteo paralysis or osteopenia. Again. Higher likelihood of fractures. That makes sense. Yeah. So it makes a ton of sense. Yeah. I was like why is this. That's crazy. I was thinking it was more with balance and and so forth. But it's a bunch of different factors. Yeah yeah. Oh wow. Okay. Also we can look at there was an interesting study that looked at walking speed. And walking speed is also something that as we are aging you see people start to walk slower. They start to shuffle. They're afraid of falling. So they are guarded walking speed is correlated with higher pelvic floor dysfunction, and people with lower walking speed are typically more likely to experience dysfunction and incontinence. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. That this is so off topic, but it just made me think of I mean, you're, you know, adamant is of course, you know, my friends and I just want to see him in concert recently and, we all saw him together when we were 14 and then again when we were 56. And I was like, whoa, he sure is shuffling a lot on stage. You know, he used to kick. And then we go start googling. How old is Adam in? He's 17 years old. I was like, okay, he can shuffle. Yeah, I don't know if he has pelvic floor dysfunction or not, but, well, but but I feel like we we accept that just because we're aging, we shouldn't be shuffling. I think that if we. Right, if we if we look at this differently and say, the reason I'm shuffling is because I have stopped doing things, it's not just because I'm old, right? Right. Yes. So if we. Yes, if we can, if we can actively age, if we can powerfully age, which the pelvic floor, in my opinion, is one of the fundamental pillars of us being able to do that, then we don't like, I just listen to a podcast with Mark Sisson who not everybody will know who he is. He was a very, very accomplished runner back in the day, winning triathlons, marathons on the cover of Runner's World, all that kind of thing. He is now 722. I believe he is. And if you like, you can. He looks great. He's got a couple of wrinkles, but he is ripped and he moves with speed and grace and ease because he has kept going. He hasn't stopped. He has recognized that part of aging is nourishing your body with nourishing movement, nourishing food, nourishing activities through the day, nourishing sleep, and and not stopping. Part of what I think makes us old is that we stop doing things. Yes, we hear this on the podcast all the time. I mean this people, you know, I have people on 8100 years old and they're still, you know, I had an 81 year old the other day. She's writing like her 10th novel. I don't, you know, she. Yeah, I mean it. That's the truth. You don't want to stop, and I. I really do think, you know, like, you were just saying your your pelvis is it's a powerhouse. It's the center of the universe. There's no life without it. There's no pleasure without it. You know, this is this is it. And so, yeah, it's a good one to keep young and and, healthy. So you talked about also, what let's let's talk a little bit let's kind of get in into some of it because, in your program, you have us keep a bladder diary. I started keeping my bladder diary this morning, and I think I was doing something that is probably a common mistake, like preemptively peeing, like, okay, I'm going to leave the house, let me pee, or, and I drink a I, I'm very hydrated because I really dry skin and I drink a ton of water, and I feel like I have to pee all the time. But this morning I was like, I think you say you shouldn't be peeing more than like two and a half to every two and a half to four hours. And so I was like, okay, let me just do that and see how it goes. And also, we're supposed to count for how long we pee, how many seconds. And I don't even know if I should admit that, but I, I let myself all hang out there. But, so I, I waited 2.5 hours, which might be a little longer than I would normally wait. And I peed for 65 seconds. Is that like, that? Seemed like a really long time. Yeah. Is there, like, something wrong with me or am I overly hydrated or. Well, there's it. I mean, if it was a, it was if it was a full, steady flow. Yeah. That's a really full bladder and that's okay. That's not typical. So now I say every two and a half to four hours. However, if you are, if you consume a lot of liquid, then that that is going we have to accommodate for that. So it doesn't mean that, you know, we have to look at how the volume of liquid that people are consuming as well. So I generally recommend 2 to 3l over the span of your day. Okay. If you are drinking more than that, you're going to urinate more frequently. If you are consuming bladder irritants, you are going to urinate more frequently. If you have trained your bladder to signal earlier, you're going to go more frequently. If you're constipated, you're going to go more frequently. So there's lots of other reasons. But, you know, just the fact that if you drink more water, then there is a point where it's too much water. So again, I kind of recommend the 2 to 3 liter zone. But we want to look at taking out bladder, sorry bladder irritants, making sure you're not constipated. And then stopping the peeing just in case. So every time we well the first time we do it randomly. Don't worry about it. If you're if you're like, I'm going to go on a big road trip or I'm, it's going to be heavy traffic, I'm going to go pee because I don't know why I'm going to go to the bathroom. You do that once in a blue moon. Don't worry about it. But okay, if you do it every single time you leave the house, even if you don't have a full bladder, pretty soon the bladder is going to be aware she's getting ready to leave the house. She's going to. Yep. Okay. And then it's going to start stimulating you even though it's not full. And that will then disrupt the messaging with the brain in the bladder. And the bladder will start to identify a quarter full or half full as, oh, this is urgent. We got to go as opposed to you having you have a lot more left, until you would actually truly be getting the signals of being full. So the bladder diary is meant to help you identify how much water are you drinking or not? Sounds like you drink adequate amounts. If you have any bladder irritants that you're consuming that could potentially be such as what do you consider black caffeine, alcohol? Dairy for mini gluten for some artificial sweeteners. Spicy food, acidic food, carbonated beverages? Those are the main ones. Chocolate. Doesn't mean that those are all irritants for every single person. But if you are struggling with urgency or frequency and you really like. But I, you know, I drink, I think I drink enough water. Usually people are not drinking enough water because they've also stopped drinking water because they're afraid of leaking or they're afraid of not going into the bathroom in time. So it helps you highlight how much water are you drinking, what potentially could be irritants, and you then making choices. Find out if I stop that carbonated drink that I have, what changes, if anything, if I don't have caffeinated beverages in the morning or in the evening, what changes? And if something changes for the better, then you then make a choice. What's harder? Is it harder for me to give up coffee? Or is it harder for me to continue having these urges and more frequent urination periods? Okay. Wait, can you walk us through some of the exercises? Like you say that most people are doing a Kegel wrong. Can you. Yeah. So go exercise is doctor Arnold Kegel was a physician. He saw his women, generally in the postpartum population, struggling with, pelvic floor challenges. They weren't able to contract and relax. And so he used what's called a pair anemometer, which is a biofeedback device to help them see when they were contracting and relaxing to educate. So it's biofeedback to help them see this group of muscles that we can't see. Well, see the function of the muscles. And, out of that came the Kegel exercise, which is basically a contract lift and let go of the muscles. But people have interpreted a Kegel as a squeeze, and most people will think of squeezing their inner thighs, or they think of squeezing their butt cheeks, or they think they, by bearing down, it's actually activating. So it's not their fault. They've never been taught. And now we need to kind of bring the awareness. I've used the term core breath, which again, I want to honor Arnold Kegel, but I also want to expand upon his work and the the pelvic floor works in synergy with the diaphragm, which I've already, I think I already highlighted, but I think that's some pump action. And the pelvic core is a part of the core. So that's where the term core breaths seem to, to make sense. And so that highlights that this is a core exercise. It works with the breath. And it's not just about squeezing. We add in visualization that allows people to try to understand and see on the inside of their body what's happening. So things like picking up a blueberry with your vagina in your anus, or sipping a smoothie through a straw with your vagina could potentially be helpful for somebody to activate those muscles. So there is, say, the thing about the blueberry again, picking, if you can imagine, like if you had a blueberry at the opening of your vagina and the opening even at your anus, you could imagine using your muscles to pick that blueberry up, okay. And then put it back down again. Okay, okay. So there's no best cue. It's which one's best for you in which one elicits the response that we're looking for. And seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist is a great way to have them check your cues and see which one elicits the best response in your pelvic floor. If if you put a finger in your vagina and you squeeze and you can feel it, that's that's doing it. Right? Right. Yeah. That's your own biofeedback. So ideally you would want, you would want to feel like a gentle hug, a gentle draw up. So it's not you're not trying to pull your finger way up into your vagina, just a gentle drawing up motion. And then can you let that go? Is there a relaxation response. Yeah. So that's the core breath there. That's Kegel like Kegels. But kind of that further expansion is most people think of Kegels as I'm going to do them while I stand to brush my teeth. I do them at every red light in the car. I do them lying down on the floor on my back while I'm watching TV. If you're doing that correctly, great. Better than nothing. However, we are dynamic beings and a lot of the symptoms that we deal with and experience don't happen while we're standing, brushing our teeth, or sitting at a red light or lying down our back. They happen while we are at the gym, when we push a heavy door open, when we stand up from a chair, when we're running. And so we need to train the pelvic floor dynamically. So in the program we first learn the core breath. We then layer that into gentle movements to start like a pelvic tilt or a bridge. Then we get a little bit more upright and say a tall kneel or a seated position. Then we start to move with like a lunge or a squat. Then we can put put it into a push up or a chest press where we we exhale knowing that the inhales or where the pelvic floor expands and lengthens. That's where it's relaxed. And when the pelvic floor contracts and lifts, that's on the exhale. So knowing that, we then take that blueberry image and work let's say going to squat. We're standing upright. We inhale as we lower down into the squat we're lengthening the pelvic floor. Then just before we stand back up we exhale. We we pick up our blueberries to activate the pelvic floor. Then we stand back up. Inhale, release. Put the blueberries back down. As you lower down in your squat. Exhale pick up your blueberries then stand up. So initially we exhale to activate the pelvic floor. First to retrain the anticipatory action of the pelvic floor. It should know what to do without us telling it. And without us. We should be able to do things without thinking of picking up blueberries. But we remind the pelvic floor this is the timing. You need to pre-contract before I do this movement. And then over time we're re patterning, we're retraining, and then we do more sets and more reps. We add load. We are dynamic movement. So the pelvic floor is trained to respond to more than just standing, brushing your teeth or sitting at a red light temp. That makes sense. And I always say, if you want to know if you're doing it right, do it during sex. If you have a male partner and they make a noise, you're doing it right. Yeah. Their form of biofeedback, it's their right. It's his. It's biofeedback. Okay. And I think I have more trouble finding my diaphragm than doing it. Where, like, how do you know your. Is that so? When you are like in yoga, when you do, a big breath in your belly kind of expands. Is that where is your diaphragm exactly? I think I hear you from if you think of your your rib cage. Okay. So we have our, our rib cage here and the diaphragm sort of nestles underneath the lungs that are housed within the rib cage. Okay. Okay. So and the diaphragm is in like a bit of an arched position when it's after we have exhaled. So when we inhale the ideally the ribs, like the ribs should expand laterally where as the lungs inflate and that is as the diaphragm is flattening and the diaphragm is what's helping pull that air into the lungs. And then when we and then reciprocally down below, we should have the belly expand. And we should have the pelvic floor expand. Then when we exhale, the pelvic floor contracts and lifts, the belly naturally draws in and the diaphragm goes back up into its arched position. So it's literally underneath your ribs. Okay. That always is so hard for me to picture. And and you've also said that, you know, I think that we think, oh, I'm leaking urine because it's also loose or things are loosey goosey down there, but you say sometimes it's really too tight. Is that or do those exercise is help loosen it or is that what you want to loosen it up? Well, a lot of people think of if they're leaking or if they have prolapse. They need to tighten. I need a tight vagina and then I won't leak. Just remember the urine is coming out the urethra, not the vagina, and tightness is not strength. Tight muscles restrict blood flow and circulation. They don't have a good range of motion. They don't can't develop as much power. So tight is weak. We want to strengthen tight muscles. We also want to lengthen tight muscles. And most people usually have a little bit of tightness in their pelvic floor. But the association is, well, if I'm leaking, how can they be too tight? That doesn't make sense. But again, tight muscles will not be able to generate the force needed to withstand the pressure. That's generated from a laugh, a cough or sneeze, a lift of standing up from a chair. And it doesn't. It can't. It can't develop the power. It can't react at the right time, with the right amount of force to close those openings off. So we always start, as you will see, as you get to the 28 day challenge, we always start with release exercises. First, we pay attention to our posture and how things are aligned. We do some work. We use the breath because inhaling is a way of also letting go of tension. And then we also end with release work at the end of the workouts as well. Yeah, it makes me think of, Pilates, right? Like lengthening your muscles that that's what you do in Pilates. That makes, a lot of sense. Okay. What what else do you want to tell us about the program or what have I missed? I mean, I mean, I guess, as you've noticed, you people come in thinking they're going to do an exercise program and you will see exercise, but it's really a lifestyle program because the two main things, hydration and constipation, always need to be addressed first. If you are dehydrated, if you are not consuming enough water, and if you are not pooping well every single day like pooping like a champ, then I can give you all the exercise in the world and you wouldn't really notice much change. So working on hydration, getting up to 2 to 3l of water, removing bladder irritants. And then that's another thing that's going to help you poop better. If you're drinking enough water, but also making sure that you're pooping well and you're not constipated. Working on the gut health component will. Sometimes. That's all the people need. I shouldn't say that people still benefit and need the exercise, but that will alleviate so many symptoms in people. So I want people to understand that it there's much more to optimizing pelvic health than just a few magic exercises. And this is a lifestyle like brushing our teeth. We will do this for the rest of our life. But I don't want people to think, oh my God, now I have another thing I need to do on my to do list. This is meant to be incorporated, to be your workout for the day. That will also be addressing your bones, that will also be addressing your heart, that will also be addressing your brain health, your mobility flexibility. So this is a, a longevity program. Really? Yeah. Okay. I'm glad you said that because I did have that thought, because, you know, I have all these guests on and I'm always trying to incorporate everything. And I, you know, now I have I do have I have to do my fashion flow and now I have to do my vagina. Now I have to, you know, so it is it. And people who listen to this podcast all the time, I think are pretty well versed in, we, we talk about fiber a lot. We talk about gut health a lot. I know you don't know anything about me, but I reversed my heart disease by following a whole food plant based diet. And so that I'm always preaching about the fiber and the whole foods and the plant foods and, so, I mean, yeah, the constipation is like something nobody wants, and and you do have this great part about pooping like a champ where, you know, you show us how to sit proud on the toilet. I love that because I'm, I, I've been known to get in the toilet and just like, oh, you know, just let it all go. It's okay. I'm going to relax for a second. But you also talk about what your poop should look like, and I thought this was very smart. You give us the Bristol stool chart, and so you can look at the Bristol stool chart. I'll try to remember to put that in the show notes. Yeah. You want to have it and you'll you can Google it and you want to have the number four looking poop on the Bristol stool chart, which is I'm a chap, I'll just say that. And it's only because, you know, some people I think most people probably glimpse into the toilet, but we should be looking. Yeah I know, yeah. Everybody looks don't they. Yeah, hopefully they do. We should be looking at our poop. It tells us a lot. And if you were straining to poop, that's a problem. It's a problem for your pelvic floor. It's going to create more urgency and frequency with regards to your bladder. It's also meaning you're literally not getting the shit out. You're not getting the toxins out. You're. Yeah, we're thinking about the hormone piece, the hormonal disruption. We would be starting to recycle our hormones. That's going to create some of the the upheaval that we experience as well. So it's super important to know what your poop is telling you. And a Bristol stool chart is a good a good place to start. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I never thought about like, recycling your hormones and all that. If you don't get your shit out. Yes, that's good. Okay. I'm glad we're covering all the basics. You know, this is off topic, but I think just from, getting to know your program, and I told you, you can't. You are in my Instagram feed 5000 times a day. You do such a good job. I don't know, it's because if I'm 56 or I don't know if I said something about peeing or marketing. Yeah, it's. And, I'm like, so I just, you know, I started watching your videos and I'm like, okay, you're a brilliant businesswoman, and I love everything about how you've named your business to your videos, to your program, to your follow ups, just everything. And I think there's a lot of women who listen to this podcast who do some kind of cottage industry business. Could you give us some some like good a couple business tips. Oh, sure. Well, I mean, where is this is taking me 20 years to get to the point where I feel like I finally developed my flow. There was a lot there was another business there, and there they that. Anyway, there's been lots of iterations. Yes, yes. I get that. Yeah. I, I now have fortunately, I have somebody to help me with my marketing. So it getting people to help you in your business where it's not your zone of genius is really, really important. And the sooner you can do that, the sooner I, I, I try to do everything with an entrepreneur lifestyle mindset. You kind of you are forced initially to do everything on your by yourself. And as soon as you can outsource, especially marketing, do that that that would be the place that I would start. Because ultimately helping somebody, you can have the best program in the world, you need people to know about your program. And so somebody who understands how to get it in to people's Facebook feeds and Instagram feeds is not. But I know how to do. And so that would be the first thing that I would help. I would have help for in the business. My first person was an accountant, which I was happy to get rid of the bookkeeping and all that kind of stuff as well. But again, I find if if I were to do it all again, I would try to find that marketing person right from the get go. That's going to make the biggest difference. The other is just, I mean, I, my names for my business have kind of come by just talking and making jokes. That's just that's my delivery method. I like to have a little bit of fun. It's a heavy topic. And so me just going through presentations and talking in front of people is where, like I said, I came up on stage and I said, as a joke, vagina coach. There you go. There's my light bulb moment and bathroom off. I was joking, I said some like I was talking about a I used to call it the Kegel Mojo program, and I said, okay, who was ready to bust your mouth? And that was everybody was like, oh my God, I love that. And then I was like, I think I better change it to birth month. So yeah, yeah, I don't know, I it just kind of evolves and but be open and be curious and be okay with changing. Even if I've had systems in place that I had just invested thousands of dollars for, and two months later, somebody gave me a better thing and the thought of changing was like, oh my God. But if something literally is better and going to change your life, then be open to that. Don't don't get stuck in your ways. Yes. Yeah, yeah, even this is so stupid. But I don't know why I wasn't doing this, but you and I are going back and forth about dates and you're like, here. And you just sent me your calendar calendly whatever it's called. And I was like, okay, why am I so stupid? And so now I'm using that. I'm like, that's duh. Why? Why am I going back and forth like this? You know, just for that story, I just saw a quick little eye follow up. It's I think it's called time Investors or something. It's it's a sharing stories of entrepreneurs and the fellow who started Khalili. If I'm getting this correct, he was he was his father was he witnessed his father being murdered. He moved to the United States. He was he has a terrible, horrible story past, came from nothing and had many failed attempts along the way as well. And ended up starting Khalili and is now like $1 billion business like so and so. That's another important point is I love the acronym Fail first attempt in learning it. Nothing that you're doing it could at the moment feel like a failure, but it is teaching you something. So figure out what it's teaching you. And now what's your course correct going to be? I've had many of those moments where you feel like you have failed along the way, and they've all ended up creating this zig zag, not linear path to where I am now. So stay curious, keep trying, keep testing, be open, talk with other people who are doing like look at the people who are doing what you want to do and emulate them. That's a really good advice. I, I like that and I know a lot of the women are doing their own businesses. And so I think that that's so it is important. It's like, what is Brené Brown? I always think about her when she's talking about first fucking time like she keep do you know, have you ever heard her say that? And, I think it was for my first podcast. You know, I pin that at the top of my, like, buy my camera. And, it just said first fucking time up there like, it's. And it went great. And so, you know, that's just how you guys do it. You have to like she also says throw your hat in the ring. You know, just keep going. I, I like I remember somebody saying this, it's the first pancake. Whenever you're making pancakes the first one never is never turns out well, yes. Never. So everything that you're trying for the first time is like your first pancake, but eventually you get to really perfect pancakes. Exactly. Yeah. That's good. Well it seems like your, your pancakes are going pretty good now. I love it I love it for you. And you know more than that I love that you're helping women and and this is, it is it's such an important thing because if you're having painful sex or if you're having, you know, leaking bladder or things like that, I mean, you can't you can't feel confident. It's hard, you know, and so it's really important work you're doing. Do you have any advice about that, about painful sex or is that completely muscle? Oh, vaginal estrogen. Estrogen. So your pelvic floor physical therapist to understand like why is it painful. Is it low estrogen. Is it tight muscles. Is it an organ out of place. Is it fear trauma? So you have to understand what your why is. And then but I would say pretty much everybody beyond the age of menopause would benefit from bad positional estrogen. Yeah. We we heard that from, I had a, ob gyn on not too long ago. And she was talking about that. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good to hear it from multiple sources. I like that, yeah. Well, do you mind if I ask you just a couple of fun questions? Okay. What? What's your best piece of advice for aging? Well. Keep moving. Oh, I like it. It's good. Do you have a best piece of advice that you've ever received that anyone's ever given you? Not age related. I had a business piece of advice where you're making decisions, and I would say this could be, health really could be it could be used in many terms. Is this new thing going to contribute to or contaminate your freedom so you can make choices about what you're putting in your body? Is this going to contribute to or contaminate your health? You could make choices about who you're hanging out with. Is this going to contribute to or contaminate your well-being in your business? Is this system or person or product that I want to create going to contribute or to or contaminate my freedom? That's interesting I like that. That's very good advice. Do you have any lessons that you've learned from watching your parents age? Oh boy. Well it's that's very much top of mind right now. My mom, it has always been very active and is a very young 80 year old. My father has chosen a different path over the last few years and is a very old, 80 year old, and that is now requiring a move to a senior center where my mom really does not need to be there. But, my but she can't be the care giver to my father in their home. And so keep moving, stay active, eat well, love well, participate in that. You stay social. Do do all the things a sedentary lifestyle will. You will be aging very, very quickly. That will definitely contaminate your freedom. So sad. It's, It's really hard. It's hard? Yeah. It is. Your parents. Do you have a favorite? Well, we didn't talk about this. Do you ever had favorite health or beauty product? I know you talked about a pest in your. I don't know if that's your favorite health or beauty product, but do you can you quickly tell us what that is and then tell us if that's not your favorite health, our beauty product? It's not my favorite. I would say mysteries are, passages are like orthotics for your pelvic floor. And they can be life changing, especially from a prolapse management perspective. And there are over-the-counter options. There's also things you can get through your your gynecologist, through a prescription. There are also companies innovating in that space and doing 3D printed versions. And I have a couple of podcast episodes on my. Okay, the two and two looks about P-series, and we're saying PSA or why necessary just so people can understand that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My favorite device is, red light therapy. And I use red light therapy for my hair, for my skin, for my whole body. But also I have a vaginal red light therapy device as well. So what? I use it on my face. But I didn't know you could do that on your that. Yeah. Yeah. There's, two products. There's one by Joey Lux and there's one by fringe. Fringe. And, I, I've used both their the, the, the Joy Lux device. I was the Canadian importer distributor for a number of years for them or the first Canadian distributor for them. Many years ago. And I had an e-commerce store, so I've been using that product for a long time. The fringe one is newer to the market. It's a little bit lighter, it's a little bit smaller, so certain people can accommodate that one a bit better. But I, I like both. So red light therapy is great for so many things. Reducing inflammation specific to the vagina. It can help with collagen production. Lubrication can help heal tissues I used it I had a rep seal repair surgery four years ago. I used it externally so I, I was shining red light on my bone post red to seal surgery. You're not putting anything inside right away. But, yeah, I'm a huge fan of red light. Oh, that's good to know, I love that. Okay, and then again, off topic, you can tell I like to do that. What's your favorite concert you've ever been to? I have been to two concerts in my whole life. I'm not a concert goer. So, of the two that I went to would be Depeche Mode back in the the 80s. Okay, that's one of my favorites. Yeah. Oh, my God, that's a look, I love it. I, you know, I, I, I go to so many concerts and I love music so much that I always just like to know what people's favorite concerts are. But, you're, you're the second person from Canada who's told me that you've only been to 1 or 2 concerts. Is that is that not as much of a thing there, or is that just coincidence? I just, I don't know, I don't love I like if I was at a bar and there was a live band. Doesn't even have to be anybody famous. I really like that. Yeah, being in a big I just don't like it. That's not my thing. I don't like big crowds of people I don't like. I don't, it's just not that I get that, you know, I live in Austin, Texas, and so I think I'm, lucky we have a lot of you could go into any bar and hear live music all the time. But we also have this great venue, I call it the Old lady venue, jokingly, because, you know, we get a lot of bands that are smaller now. Like, I just saw, Violent Femmes the other night. Oh, but this, this arena, it's it's not even an arena like you can park two blocks away, so that's easy, and then you can sit down. I didn't say that. The Violent Femmes, but you can sit, you know, and, every seat is a great seat. It only holds, I don't know, a thousand, I don't know, it's very small. I could get on. It's very intimate. But I think that one reason we go to so many concerts is because of that venue. It's just so you get behind that idealized. So anyway. Well, I, I've loved talking to you, Kim. I can't thank you enough for being such a good and open guest and and sharing wholeheartedly. And I'll try and put all this good stuff in the show notes. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I appreciate, I appreciate the work that other podcasters are doing to help spread the word too. So thank you so much. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye to bye bye. Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.