Miyoko Schinner - Living With Purpose: Timeless Wisdom for Feeling Fulfilled

Miyoko Schinner shares her incredible journey—from her childhood in Japan to becoming a trailblazer in the vegan cheese world. We spoke about the early influences that shaped her, especially the values of cultural identity and the entrepreneurial spirit her mother instilled in her. Her love for cooking led her to create groundbreaking vegan products, eventually founding Miyoko's Creamery. We discuss the surprising joys that come with aging and reinvention. Miyoko shares thoughtful insights on staying active, finding purpose, and the importance of reading—all while remaining committed to making the world a better place for animals and people.

https://www.miyokoschinner.com/

https://www.miyokoschinner.com/travel

https://www.youtube.com/@thevegangoodlifewithmiyoko

If you want to contact the show, email us at lauren@agelikeabadassmother.com; we'd love to hear from you!

#AgeLikeABadassMother #MiyokoSchinner #VeganEntrepreneur #EpicureanActivist #VeganCheese #PlantBasedLifestyle #FemaleFounder #ReinventYourself #SustainableEating #Over50AndThriving #Entrepreneur #Selfhelp #Mentalhealth #Wellness

Transcript

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Hello friend. This week my guest is Miyoko Schnur, an absolute titan of industry. You have likely eaten the vegan cheese or butter that bears her name, but she doesn't want to be known for that. She wants to be known for her compassion toward humans and animals. And she just shared one powerful lesson after another. Be sure to stay till the end, because she talks about her advice to aspiring entrepreneurs and how to reinvent yourself at any age. As a matter of fact, this might be a good one to share with a friend or a parent. And don't forget you can watch my interviews on YouTube or Spotify. Leave a comment. I will absolutely answer you back or feel free to email me at. Lauren at age like a badass mother.com and we have so many great interviews coming up, including the Vagina Coach and Shane Martin of Shane and Simple. So be sure to subscribe or follow the podcast so you don't miss a thing. And thank you for your continued support. You mean the world to me. Hi friends, I'm Lauren Bernick and I'm flipping the script about growing older. My guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing. Welcome to the anti Anti-Aging podcast. Welcome to age like a badass mother. Miyako shiner is an award winning chef, author, entrepreneur, and speaker. She founded Mio Ghost Creamery, one of the leading alternative dairy producers, and is often credited for bringing vegan cheese to mainstream audiences. She's also the founder of the nonprofit Rancho Compassion, a farmed animal sanctuary and education center for School-aged youth. She is currently a lecturer at UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business. Miyoko is the author of six cookbooks, including the best selling The Homemade Vegan Pantry, and the book credited for launching the vegan cheese revolution Artisan Vegan cheese. Her seventh book, The Homemade Vegan Creamery, is slated to come out in 2025. She cohosted a vegan cooking show on PBS called Vegan Mash Up that aired for three seasons. She currently hosts a new YouTube cooking channel called The Vegan Good Life with Miyoko, and was featured in a four part Netflix series, You Are What You Eat, The Twin Experiment. Calling herself an epicurean activist, she has worked tirelessly for over 30 years to reimagine a food system built on sustainability, equity and compassion for animals. Her popular cookbooks, products and thought leadership have inspired people across the globe to reconsider their food choices and take personal joy and responsibility in helping to participate in a better food system. Miyoko has been recognized by major media outlets as a cultural icon and food innovator, and was named to the coveted inaugural list of Forbes 50 over 50. A Game Changer by Food and Wine magazine and a vegan revolutionary by U.N. women, Miyoko has three grown children and resides in West Marin with her dogs, cats, and over 100 animals of Rancho Compassion. Please welcome Miyoko center. Oh my gosh. Oh, well, thank you so much, Laurie. That was a I don't know, every time when I hear an intro like that, like, oh, who is that person? I know a lot of people say that. If Victoria moran said that, everybody should get an intro. This is like every time you walk in the room. It's so great. It's really nice. When you hear that, like, what stands out? Like, oh my God, I can't believe I accomplished, like, fill in the blank. What? Well, you know, I think we're at the core. We're just regular human beings. And so when we wake up in the morning, we're not thinking about our accomplishments. We're thinking about the list of things we have to do that day or or whatever. But we're not we're not putting accolades on ourselves. And so I typically forget those things. And most of the time, I'm thinking about all the things that I haven't done right or all the things that I still need to do. You know, I, I don't know. I think that's maybe a quality that women have. Which is why I think we're able to take the focus off of our individual selves and nurture others. You know, we were walking around proud all the time with bravado. Look at me I done all these things. We I don't think we'd be able to spend as much time really caring for others. You just quality that women have. I think for sure. And, I mean, you're so you're so humble and you have we're going to talk a little bit about what you have accomplished, but we'll we'll get off of that for a second. So you were born in Japan, right? And then moved to, California when you were, like seven. Is that right? What was that experience like? Did did you speak English? Did your parents have jobs lined up or what was that like? I mean, it was, very exciting. You know, I thought I was going to the land of of, progress and, and, because Japan was it was still post-World War Two. It was World War Two. Wasn't that long ago. My mother lost. Her house was bombed. She had to reinvent herself. And, she lost a brother in the war. He was a pilot. So you grew up with this sort of knowledge? My mother was a single mom. My father was actually American. He was an American soldier during the occupation. And then he went back to the United States. So she raised me at a time when I was considered what was called an iron knuckle or a love child. And so that was very, very that was looked down upon. And and yet my mother had to rebuild herself in Japan. So she became an entrepreneur and she started her own stuffed animal business. And I remember waking up every day in the house full of women who were sewing her design pins. And and so she was, you know, I just thought it was normal for a woman to do that sort of thing. She protected me, made sure that I didn't feel, discriminated against, etc. and but, my father eventually decided to marry my mother and bring her over to the United States. And I thought this was the land of, you know, I, I watched The Jetsons on TV in Japan. Oh, America was going to be like that. And, you know, and I thought the Japanese were inferior. I mean, this was the thing about, about race is that oftentimes either occupied or colonized countries, the people in those countries often look upon the white, colonizers or occupiers as the saviors, because we realize that they're, you know, they're more developed than we are. We're behind. We were we lost the war, blah, blah, blah. And so, you know, I thought America was going to be full of magic. And when I got here, you know, I mean, I thought my of myself as sort of a lowly Japanese and the Americans were just, you know, everyone was blond and beautiful. And I, I talk about this in my upcoming book, actually, the introduction of the Vegan Creamery. But, you know, I had dark hair and I was made of soy sauce and miso, while the American kids were made out of light and magic. And that's kind of how I'd looked at it. And so it took me a long time to, to realize, you know, I just wanted to be American. I just wanted to, like, wake up one morning and have blond hair. And I think this is just something that a melting pot is wonderful. But, as immigrants come into this country, you know, they are beset not only with the prejudice that is bestowed. You know, that is directed towards them, but they have their own issues, like they, you know, they also feel substandard or something. And so it really we need to lift everybody up, especially today, you know, what's going on right now in the United States. But, you know, creating, equity is really about, those that are perceived to have more taking care and lifting up those that don't so that everyone feels safe. Yeah. I'm not surprised you would say that with having a farm sanctuary and and devoting your life to, animals and activism. But I want to go back because I found it. I maybe I went way off, but, that's okay. That's we're just having a conversation. But, I mean, I'm so fascinated by the fact that your mom was an entrepreneur and had a stuffed animal business, and, I guess, I guess, do you feel like that's in your DNA, or was it just an example? No, no, it was totally in my DNA. And so my my dad actually, you know, so he brought my mother over us over. And they said, you guys speak English? No, not at all. I mean, my mother spoke broken English. I spoke no English whatsoever. how did your parents communicate? Did your dad speak Japanese? No, not at all. So my mother learned. Oh my God. Eventually, I mean, her English. She spoke, you know, very basic, broken English. And she studied during, World War two, I guess, on her own. And. And afterwards. So she spoke broken English. You know, she was quite a talented woman. She was incredibly creative, incredibly talented in so many different ways. And they were they struggled initially, after we moved to the United States, we lived in this tiny duplex, and then they built their own business. And, you know, I guess achieved the so-called American dream, after a number of years. So I watched both my parents start a business, and I was a little budding entrepreneur from the time I was, you know, eight years old. I was printing my own neighborhood newspaper and peddling it up and down the street, and, and always. Look, I can't things that I could create and sell. So that was. It was in my DNA. What was your newspaper about? I mean, just the goings on in the neighborhood in that it wasn't, like, gossip. Or was it, like community? Oakdale times? I don't remember, but my my dad bought me for Christmas this little printing set back and whatever it was in the 1960s and I got I was so excited. And so I, I made these, you know, I printed this little newspaper and oh, my God, Miyoko, what's. So you've just. It is in your DNA. It's just been there, like, since the beginning. So I know that, you went vegetarian at 12, and that's your mom said what? Oh, she said oh, she said she said she's not going to cook for me anymore. We're first. She told me I was going to die. And then she said, after a couple of weeks is are not cooking for you anymore. And that was it. It was like, okay, fine. You know, she thought that would convince me to go back to eating meat. And, you know, and I think what it was was in Japan, we didn't eat a lot of meat and we didn't eat dairy. And, you know, I had ice cream one time and I thought, oh, my God, this was the most incredible food on the planet. I mean, dairy, it just wasn't widely available. And it was a poor country trying to rebuild itself after World War two. So, you know, we just didn't have. Yeah. You ate meat once in a while, but it was you have to fish more often because it's a fish country. But, but and so when we moved to the United States, because of the government, push for, the consumption of meat and dairy after World War two through the school lunch program, etc.. I, you know, my father made sure that we had meat three times a day. And so in the time I was like seven till the age of 12, I was, I mean, I was eating tons of meat. And then one day I decided to become vegetarian. And after I went on, what spurred that on? Well, I went on a camping trip, and I was put into the vegetarian group. This is a school camping trip. And after I, you know, two or 3 or 4 days, I don't remember how long the trip was. We, I came home, I, I just had made this connection. My mother put pork chops in front of me, and I just couldn't eat it anymore. I was like, that's not food. And I pushed away and I it was a pig and that was it. I never looked back. I never, ever thought about eating meat again. It was like, no, no, big brainer. Well, it just wasn't difficult. And so my mother, I guess it just basically wasn't, you know, it tested to how I was just a determined kid, no matter what it was. I was just kind of do it. So when she told me she wasn't good for me anymore, I just said fine. And I learned how to cook, and I started feeding myself, and I remember, you know, I guess I, I don't think I had a lot of compassion for people that didn't have that determination, because I remember another friend of mine in, in middle school saying, I want, you know, I want to be a vegetarian, but my mother won't let me. And I'm like, well, why don't you just do it anyway? Just start cooking yourself. And I just didn't have that mindset of like, everyone's different. Everyone's got to be, you know, everyone's on their own journey and you just can't push people. So that was, you know, I think that stubborn I was just stubborn. And that was both good and bad. Yeah. So it seems like it served you well. What kind of things did you cook for yourself? Like did you get cookbooks or did you just make things up or. Well, the very first thing I made was a recipe on a little index card from a friend of mine named Jenna, and it was called Jenna's Homemade Soup. And you started out by sorting an onion, and then you added a can of stew, kidney beans, and then a can of, stewed tomatoes. And then you added some whatever herbs you wanted, and then you serve that over, a bowl of noodles. That was survive. And it was delicious. I loved it, I was. All right. Thank you. Jenna. I started having, cooking contests at my house. I just food just became a huge passion because I just wanted good food. That's incredible. And then you moved to Japan and started a little business there, but. And that's when you became vegan, right? Yes, exactly. I went I went back to Japan, after college, and, I don't somehow I learned about veganism through I think it was an article in the Vegetarian Times magazine. I'd actually started eating fish in Japan because being the being a vegetarian was really hard. You couldn't get dairy products, milk was available, but cheese was almost I mean, you could get there was only like one type of cheese available and it was like some processed crap. And so, and I had by then developed a taste for really rich, indulgent cheeses because my father was a cheese aficionado. And so we always had in my refrigerator things like Camembert and Brie and berg and Limburger and every, you know, we were he was my favorite cheese. That was my like. And you know, my mouth still involuntarily waters when I walk by the cheese section in Whole Foods. I'm like, stop it. You know, like that. Well, well, luckily there's a lot of vegan out there now. Blew me, right? Yes. You don't have to compromise on that. But, you know, that was the hardest thing for me to give up was cheese. And because I couldn't get cheese or dairy in it in Japan and it was so hard to avoid, fish like you just fishes in everything in Japan, it's in the broth. That's the predominant issue. Using all the broth and so I just initially because I was living with my aunt and uncle uncle, my uncle got mad at me that I was imposing this on my aunt. I started eating fish again and then after I moved out and I read this article, I was like, what am I doing? And so I just decided I'm going to go vegan. And that's when I started a business in Japan. And started becoming a little vegan culinary activist. What business did you have? I had a company called Madame Miyoko, and I made pound cakes that, were that I delivered to stores, via subway train in a backpack while I was my my very first little business. You really. I mean, you just can't help yourself with with doing, you know, businesses. And then you came back to the States and, I guess. What was it you're in Turkey was your first real big hit here? Yeah. That was the first big hit. I did start a little bakery in San Francisco first, and then I started a restaurant, and, so I published a recipe for the, turkey. And my very first cookbook, which was called The Now and Epicure came out in 1990. That was a long time ago. Yeah. And your restaurant was now and then too. Right. So after the cookbook, I started the restaurant and I started serving the, turkey for, Thanksgiving. And people were like, I wish this were commercially available. And so I decided to start distributing them, first out of the restaurant and then, nationally. I went to a trade show, and, we didn't even have a place to make the, turkeys. I, I still operated a restaurant. So we went to this trade show, the Natural Products Expo, in Baltimore. And, I was just shocked at the, the the reaction. The response. Were you sampling you handing out samples? We Sandy our samples. We wrote $50,000 in orders that weekend. And I got back, and I'm like, Holy, you know what, I don't know, I'm going to make next session. Yeah, you could sell whatever. You know, I have to. Yeah. So I had to find a timeshare kitchen, which I shared with a Palestinian making falafels. Oh. That's awesome. I got really fat eating falafels every day, but they were so good. So. And, Anyway, so I started making, turkeys, and eventually I sold, sold the restaurant and got into manufacturing and we started, we transitioned to making alternative meats. So we had in addition to the turkey, we had the un steak out the, breast of un chicken and, the UN ribs. So we had. Yeah. That's incredible. And then how did you get from that to to the cheese? so I sold now in San Antonio in 2003. And, you know, I was really trying to figure out, like, is this I guess I'm just not good at business. I should never start a food business again. And I took a break and I got into real estate for a while, believe it or not. And I started doing something called 1031 exchanges. I became an exchange, a commentator, and, I was really good at that. I mean, I, you know, I think fundamentally, I, I know what needs to be done in a business, and I am, I don't know, I, I'm a fast learner. So, I learned how to do that, and I actually became successful. I mean, I started, like, raking in a lot of money doing that. And it was kind of fun. And initially it was like, oh, my God, you know, I can make a lot of money. And then, and I'm not talking like, millions and millions, but like, you know, doing very well. And then one day I was like, this is soulless. Basically, it's 1031 exchanges are when you sell, an investment property and to avoid the capital gains tax, you take that money and through an exchange, a combinator invests in another property. And this is the way you keep deferring capital gains tax until later in life, when maybe you're at a lower tax bracket. And so yeah, that's that's kind of what I was doing at the time. And I felt like, is this the rest of my life, I had I was over 50 and I thought, I guess the rest of my life is just, being financially successful, going home, having a glass of wine, you know, watching the boob tube and I guess, you know, going out for a ladies lunch once in a while, like, is this the meaning of my life? And I just decided, no, it's not. I can't do this anymore. I mean, I was married at the time, and my ex-husband had, started buying cheese, and bringing it into the home. And that was very upsetting for me because I was trying to maintain a vegan household. And so that actually encouraged me to start, attacking what had been on my bucket list, which was creating, a vegan cheese that I would want to eat, like the Brie that you, you know, salivate for. Yes. And so I started playing around. This was in the, you know, mid 2000. So I started playing around with, with soy milk initially, and then cashews and, and then other things. And eventually I submitted a proposal to my old, publisher. I said, you know, would you guys be interested in a vegan cheese cookbook that involves fermentation? And they said, oh, yes. And so I published that book, 2012 Artisan Vegan Cheese. And I had I really thought, who's going to buy this book? Like, who cares? And it turned out everybody cared. Like all the vegans, you know, came out to buy the book. Yeah. And I never wanted to start a business again. But people kept saying, you know, your recipes are great, but they require too much work, so can't you just make it because of the fermentation? And so for you, student or the aging or whatever. So they're just like, you know, just start another company. And so I did I mean, initially the idea was to have a little local cheese company, a local, a local shop, retail shop selling cheese, selling, you know, a little cafe where you could get a little, you know, Caprice, a sandwich and a cup of soup and, you know, in, in Fairfax, California, which was like the, the epicenter for the mountain bike movement. So. And we were right next to the mountain bike museum. So the idea was all the bikers had come there and they would grab a, you know, a healthy vegan lunch, and then they would go up and ride and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so the shop never opened. Same thing with the, turkey. We started out online and, immediately, over the weekend got $50,000 and orders. But how does that happen? You're like over the weekend, but what were you doing the weekend and always. But I mean, but how does that happen? You you put up your website and how did you let people know about or how how did you just find out? Like, well, first of all, the book had been out for, over two years, artisan vegan cheese. So I'd already had a little reputation for that. I'm not very good at self-promotion. I don't do a lot of social media. I mean, I do, but usually not about self-promotion. Like if you go on my Instagram once in a while, I'll promote, like a trip. I'm to. Yes, but I've seen I. Yeah, but most of the time it's about an animal. Your family like there. Yeah. Or you know, or some or. I don't know or, you know, about what's going on right now in the world, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Not usually about self-promotion, which I wish I, I could do more of, but on the same. Yeah, that's what I hate doing that I don't like selling myself. So anyway, just from that, people, there was already a lot of excitement building because back then we didn't have all these options. I mean, today we're so lucky because there are literally hundreds of vegan cheese companies around the world. Artisan producers. Sometimes people send me things, say, you know, try my products. And there are some really great brands out there. The problem is most of them don't have a venue from, on which to sell. Most of them are going through vegan online, retailers or, and I've talked to a lot of them. A lot of them are struggling because they're you just can't get on a shelf in a lot of. Yeah, that's I know we have rebel. We have Rebel Cheese here in Austin. Have you heard of them. Yes. And they done really well. They went on Shark Tank. Right. And done really well. They really did well. But there are equally, delicious brands that are just not doing as well. How how did you get on grocery shelves? It started out with Whole Foods, the local Whole Foods. So about 2 or 3 months in, we were at some sort of, veggie fest or something like that, and a local distributor approached us, and then we pitched a Whole Foods, and, so we got into Whole Foods NorCal, and it was just a unique enough product that within a year we were distributed across the country. I mean, it was, you know, I think timing, quality of product. And, you know, just I think it was being in the right place at the right time. I think that had a lot to do with it. It, yeah. And, what I guess Ellen DeGeneres and Portia invested in it. And somebody else who who else there were. I mean, there were other other people. I mean, they were the probably the best known. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, you know, and the company still there, I'm not involved anymore, but it's still out there and selling their products, and, so yeah, it was a. Yeah, you know, but that's the thing that I, I feel like you had I know you, you don't want all the praise for this, but, I mean, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on here because you accomplished something huge. And I feel like a lot of us have big dreams or big ideas. But you made yours come to fruition. And I know you have a lot of drive and so forth, but what was it to do? Get up every day and just grind it out? Or do was it some kind of manifesting? I mean, what it what did you do? Well, you know, I took this a lot of wannabe entrepreneurs, you know, I spent a lot of time coaching and I do it, you know, I don't charge for it. But if someone calls me and or emails me and it looks like there's a way, you know, they've got an interesting idea or product or whatever, I'll talk to them. And what I found is that, a lot of people overthink things, and they're trying to figure everything out before they get started. And, you know, sorry, I'm not I'm not a fan of Nike. And when they first came out with that, slogan, just do it, I thought, oh my God, this is so stupid. But now I think it's one of the the smartest slogans out there, because, I mean, that's a lot of it is most of us, most people spend a lot of time planning and planning and planning. They try to figure out what are the repercussions going to be if I do this or that or the other thing. And because of that, they're beset by fear, because they don't have all the answers ahead of time and they never get started. Yeah. And so one of the I think I am someone who just gets started, I just put myself out there and I don't worry about whether or not I have all the answers. Before I get started. I have some rough idea. I have a, you know, back of the napkin roadmap, but that's all it is. It's not usually more polished in that. And of course, that back of the napkin roadmap has gotten has improved over the years. You know, it's gotten more polished because I've had so much more experience. But, I mean, that's a lot of it with anything is you just do it. So, you know, I had this nonprofit farmed animal sanctuary. I wasn't planning to start a nonprofit farmed animal sanctuary, education center. But now it's, you know, it's a thriving nonprofit. And, I mean, it's still a struggle trying, you know, like every other nonprofit trying to raise money all the time. But I didn't have it all mapped out when I started. I just how did you start that? Well, these these, we bought a property out in the country, and there was a barn and someone called me up and said, oh, these two goats need a home. Can you take. And it was it just literally started with that. And so, you know, you I just got started and the next thing you knew, there were more animals. And then it was like, oh my God, I better start a nonprofit. And I didn't have it. I didn't have any of it penciled out. And over time it grew and people started showing up to volunteer. And then, you know, now it's still small. We have, four staff members and, lots of volunteers. I'm not hands on all the time. Except for when llamas fall into the pool like they did this morning. So, like, well, I got up this morning, and I'm reading this book called called Do Nothing, which is about, oh my God, it's about how to break away from overworking, overdoing and under living. And so I got up this morning thinking, you know, and I was thinking immediately, like, all the things that I have to do today. And then I thought, wait a minute, why am I not waking up thinking about how I can enjoy life today? So I thought, okay, until this podcast, I'm just going to take the morning off, not check email. I'm just going to sit down with a cup of coffee and read and enjoy life and just let ideas permeate in my head. So I'm sitting here with a cup of coffee, looking out in my backyard, and all of a sudden I see this head bobbing in the pool and I go, oh my God, somehow one of the llamas got into my backyard and fell in the pool. So like, it's pouring down rain and I have to, like, in my pajamas. I rush outside and the llama is tall enough that, you know, she could have stood up in the pool, but she hadn't realized it. So she's floating on her side and her head keeps going down in the pool. Oh, grab her head. And I pull her over to where the steps are and I quickly like, call the sanctuary manager. And she runs up to the house and she gets in the pool and in her clothes. I've got her neck. And we pull this llama out of the pool. So that was in case anybody else has a llama in their pool. That's how you get one out. You have to pull it over to the side and it's okay. So now we know okay that's crazy dude. Plumb that poor thing. Thank God you were home I know, I know. Well, I know I realize where she got in. I got to build a fence so she can't get that down there. So that's insanity. So what kind of animals do you have there? We have everything from, they're all farmed animals. So, and animals that would typically be commodities, used for food or whatever. So we have cows, pigs, sheep, donkeys, goats, llamas, turkeys, chickens, waterfowl, and people just call you up and say, hey, I need a place for my pig, or I don't want to send it to slaughter anymore. Or what? Like, how do you. Yeah, I mean, in some of those cases, yes. Sometimes, you know, they've come to us from different, different, paths. But usually, something like that. But, you know, we there's so many animals that need rescuing and we obviously can't rescue them all. And so we've realized that we also have to provide a quality of life for all of the animal residents here. So we don't over rescue. We don't rescue every animal. I mean, we've actually rescued animals from, well-meaning people who end up creating sort of a hoarding situation unintentionally because they just rescue every animal. They're like, we took a family of goats one time from these well-meaning goats lovers that were trying to save goats, and they basically had about 100 goats in an acre. And it was like, okay, at that point, it's no longer a rescue was recording situation. So, you know, we really try to provide the best possible life for all of the residents. That's. So we decided that the way to change hearts and minds is when we can't rescue our way out of, the food system today. And so we realized the best thing we can do is, put our efforts into education. And the younger the student, the better, because kids are naturally born with this, with compassion in their hearts. Yeah. Kids don't see a cute little pig and think, oh, bacon. They think, oh my God, what a cute little animal. And so that is really the, that, you know, that's the approach we take. We have an afterschool program, summer camp, field trips. We work with all sorts of kids, local kids, as well as, kids from underserved communities, urban settings. And we work with, a couple, a, several schools on a regular basis. One, is, a school for at risk youth. Another one is for, schools with, of students with diverse needs on the spectrum, etc.. And we just connect them with animals. We also have an organic garden where they get their hands in the, in the soil to learn about growing food, and they naturally come to their own realization without us indoctrinating them. So, for example, we had a kid. I love to share this story. This. This boy one time is playing with the chicken and he had this light bulb go up. I don't know, he's probably like seven years old. And he goes, wait a minute, when I eat chicken at home, am I eating her? And we never said, you know, we don't talk about factory farming. We don't talk about, the cruel, you know, cruelty to animals. We just let kids connect with animals directly. You know, we have another kid who, has seizures. And she really connected with Fred, who was, a turkey of ours, Fred Astaire, if you're interested in Fred Astaire, he, in his better days, there was a national Geographic video made of him. So if you go to YouTube and type in Fred the Turkey, you can watch his video. But anyway. Oh, wow, he's an aging turkey and he has seizures now. And so this girl, said, I love Fred because I connect with him. We both have seizures. And it changed her idea about animals that way. So, and and the kids help these animals. So she takes helps take care of Fred. And we have, a paraplegic sheep. And there are kids who, when they come over, their, their job is to nurture, nurture June the sheep. And so these little kids that have their own issues oftentimes find that they, they have something they can give somebody else. And it's teaching compassion. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I love that. That's a good way to create the next generation of vegans, hopefully. That's beautiful. It's beautiful. I mean, you're such a I, I've just been a fan of your products for so long. And, you know, sometimes I meet people and I'm, like, a little slightly disappointed in. You have definitely not been like, I am so impressed with I know and I know you don't want me to be impressed, but I'm just your compassion and you're down to earth and just really trying to be a good human. I mean, I think that that's just what it stems from. You don't seem like anybody who's like, gets up in the morning and I'm going to crush it today and that's it. I'm going to wring the shit out of life. And, you know, I know you have that in you, that you are a driven person, but not probably at the expense of anybody. And you know, you want it to be a good experience. Problem with our economic system right now is that we're so enamored with achieving it. We're so enamored with killing it. We're so enamored with success and wealth. And in at the sacrifice of the human community, at the sacrifice of our planet and animals and everybody else. And, you know, it's very easy to get caught up in that. And I can't say that I've been completely innocent from that myself. You know, there have been times in my life where, I, you know, I felt the pressure. I, and began to wonder when and maybe I should be, you know, going after that kind of success. But, you know, honestly, over the last few years, I've really been thinking deeply about, our current food system and economic system and, and how we got to where we are today. instead of a handful of people making a killing, we need thousands. And, you know, we need millions of people able to make a living. And that's, yes, the equitable type of economic system that I'm interested in helping to create. How old are you. Can I ask you that. I'm 67, 67 and looking lovely. Yeah. And how do you feel about being 67. You know, well, I don't feel a whole lot different in, in some ways, at the same time, I, I do sense my mortality a lot more, you know, I think. Okay, what do I have? How many more years do I have left? I have ten, 20, 30 years left. So, you know, I realize that, I realize, you know, the same problem that a lot of people have, which is. Okay, how do I actually make sure that, you know, I can retire at some point in my life? And when will that be? I don't see that happening anytime soon. But at the same time, you know, and there's little things like, you know, my, I'm fairly physically active, but I'm still not where I was ten years ago. So I realize, okay, I got to work on my mobility. So, you know, that kind of thing, like, you notice little things like that. But at the same time, I feel like I still have more energy than a lot of than, you know, the energy level hasn't really changed. Yeah. You seem like you have plenty of energy. I got plenty of energy I can. So anyway, And what do you see for yourself? Oh, God. Oh, no. Go ahead. No, no. What do you see for yourself in the in the future, then? So you're 67. I mean, you have you have some life ahead of you. I do, I'm figuring it out. You know, I started teaching at, UC Berkeley. I was really surprised they reached out to me, but I'm delighted. And I am constructing a course at the high school of business, on, plant centric food systems. And it's really, It's wonderful. I love the opportunity to actually talk about and discuss with my students, all the things that I've been thinking about and studying for the past, you know, a couple of years, which involves the food system, economics, history, history of food, history of, our economic system, all of that which, you know, I think I kind of overlooked before then. And so this is a wonderful time to be able to do that. I am trying to figure out, well, how do I put, the things that I care about today? I feel like we really do need to from the grassroots level, reinvent the food system. And I'm trying to figure out how can I do that in practice. And so I have a lot of ideas. You know, it's not about starting another business, but I do. What I like to do is, I mean, it might be a sort of a type of business that would actually support other businesses, but I want to be able to provide entrepreneurs an opportunity to succeed. I mean, getting on shelf is a difficult thing. The way our system and it's getting more and more consolidated. I know you have this great tattoo. Phenomenally vegan tattoo. That's awesome. I mean, what what inspired you to get that tattoo? And then what keeps you young? Tell me. Tell me those two things. Okay, well, I got the tattoo when I was 60, and I figured, well, I guess it's time to get a tattoo. I. And is that your only one? It's my only one. Yeah. Yeah. And it says Phenomenally Vegan. And it's on your upper arm. Yeah. Upper arm. Let me see if I can. Oh. It's cool. There it is. Oh, yeah. If you you can watch on Spotify or YouTube and see it. Oh, yeah. And so what keeps what what keeps you young and vibrant? I don't know, I guess, well, I've been, you know, in some ways I've been somewhat obsessed with health most, most of my life. So, you know, I've exercised most of my life. And in a part of being vegan, I think I was more of a junk food vegan years ago. Many, many, many years ago. Right. I was I was just, like, enamored with whatever, you know, processed vegan fast food I could get. And I realized I didn't feel very good. So I think, you know, just being in the kitchen, cooking fresh foods, has partly kept me young, but I, I think part of it is just. I don't I don't like being tired. You know, I find that I get depressed when I'm tired, and I love the energy I get from sunlight. And I just want to do things. And so I think finding whatever it is that gets you excited about life, is what keeps you young. Just so I think it is really a big mindset thing. And, I think, you know, today and when my mother was my age, she was an old lady. Yeah. And, you know. Yeah, she grew up during World War two and went through a lot of stuff, but, you know, she was ready to die. And she did. When she was 72, she got cancer and passed away. But, she just didn't take care of herself. And she had trouble walking and, I think staying involved, having a reason to live and making sure you are physically fit. And a lot of people think in order to stay physically fit, you have to go to the gym. And we have to remember that we've had thousands of years of human history when people were physically fit until they died and they didn't go to the gym, but they didn't sit all day and then go to the gym and work out hard for an hour. And you don't have to do that even now. But you do have to stay fit, which means, you know, walking, lifting, doing more physical activities and getting a llama out of the pool. That's pretty hard. That's that'll wear you out. I'm still trying to picture this. It's just like a llama out of the pool. That's so. I definitely have not heard that one before. Yeah. Gardening or, you know, things like that where you. Yeah, I exactly. I think that's good. So what do you what's your best piece of advice for aging? Well, I think staying involved in life and, and getting out of this mindset, I mean, we have had this overwhelming mindset that you work really hard, and then you retire, and we just got to get out of that. We never had that in human history. This is like an American invention. Yeah. So historically we didn't work. You know, we didn't go through a period of time where you just worked really, really, really hard, and then you just watch the boob tube the rest of your life and take care of your grandma. Right. Like this is relatively new. It started after the Industrial Revolution. And most of the time in human history, if you were a cobbler, you were a cobbler until the day you die. But you didn't. You weren't killing yourself every single day, right? You took plenty of vacation time. You took, you know, you took breaks. You work when you wanted to, but you stayed active. You were involved in the community. Whatever. And I think that's part of it. It's like, you know, you got to stay involved. You got to find something you're passionate about. And it can't be pickleball. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like, find something early on and then, when you don't have to earn your keep anymore, then parlay that thing that you're passionate about into something bigger. And I think women, especially women, are I think we're getting fed up with the roles that we've been handed. And I think more and more women are just saying, screw it. And, you know, they turn 5060 and they're reinventing themselves. I can't tell you how many women I know who end up going through divorce later in life and, having to change careers or think rethink, how they're going to spend the rest of their lives. And I think this is wonderful. I mean, what a, you know, in some ways. Oh my God, no, none of us thought we would have to reinvent ourselves in our 60s. But on the other hand, why not such a gift? It's such a gift. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had some. I mean, that's really what this podcast is about. And I've had so many women come on and talk about, you know, reinvention 50 or 60 and how incredible it is. And I just had somebody, Jane Hardwick Collings, she talks about women's blood mysteries and women's mysteries and menopause and birth and, oh, she was incredibly fascinating. And how so many women get divorced at menopause because that estrogen, that pleasing hormone, like I have to please everybody leaves their body. Oh my God, that. Yeah. So there's a biological reason. Yeah. Exactly. yeah, we don't need to please anymore, but I think it is deep in us, too. If we can use our best talents to nurture. Because what we need more than anything today is community. And I think women are going to be the leaders of that. You know, we don't want to age alone either. But so many people are lonely today. And, you know, even though we're not raising our kids anymore, we have an opportunity to use our wisdom now and our age to actually help nurture communities. Yeah, it is. It's what we need. That's how we lived for millions of years in community and I it really is. That's why we have such a longing and such a hole in our hearts now, because we don't live in that community anymore with our with our roles and the older women and the younger women. And yeah, I mean, we do. We need a lot more of that. What's your favorite concert? You've ever been to? Oh my gosh. Okay, well, when I was about 12 years old, I snuck out of my bedroom, and with a couple of other friends, and we hitchhiked to Berkeley and, we snuck into, Crosby, stills, Nash and Young concert and that at that. Oh, my God, you are such a rule breaker. You snuck out of your house, you hitchhiked at 12 and then snuck into the concert Yeah, I mean, this was like late 60s and, you know, I don't know, my mother just was bringing her hands all the time, just telling me I was this rebellious, horrible. She's like, you're supposed to be this good, obedient Japanese girl, you know? Why do you like this? What happened to you, Miyoko? Oh, my God, I bet that was a good concert, man. Was it Crosby? Stills? Nash? It was Crosby, stills, Nash and Young. It just wasn't Crosby, Stills and Nash. Okay. Wow. You're young and young. Wow. Okay, so you saw a great concert. Yeah. He's something Neil Young, he's written all those songs about, you know, GMOs. And I mean, he's quite a quite an activist. He's. Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's something. What book are you reading now? I love to read to. I'm reading. Oh, yeah. You do nothing that was gifted to me. And I thought, you know, initially I thought, okay, come on, you got to be kidding. And I started reading it, and it really was right. You know, partly because, I was a kid from the time I was probably 8 or 9 years old. I would wake up every morning and I would make a list of all the things that I had to do that day. And my mind is just always work that way. And, yeah, you know, I think we are at a point where we are overworked and we are not thinking about, how do I enjoy life today? Yes. How do I like, you know, I used to just scoff at the idea. People would say, just slow down and smell the flowers or whatever that is. And I used to just scoff at that. It's like, but how do you get things done? I think there's a time and place for when you have to actually do something. You know, if you're in the middle of a war or if you're in the middle of a crazy time, like here in the United States, I think the times involved, you know, require action and doing something. Or if you had to take care of your family, you got to do something. But at the same time, you know, most of us, most of us are in a place in the United States. If if we're not struggling, we are at a place where we should actually be, contemplating the stars and slowing down, pulling down and allowing ideas. Look at the moon and look at the moon. And and when you do that, that's when I think ideas come to you. I mean, I always found this when I was stuck in a, at a time and I didn't know what to do. It was typically because I was always in the mode of reacting to something and going through that list of things I had to do, and it was when I took a pause and went for a run with the dogs or something, that the solution would come to me. And so, like getting off of social media, digital platforms and that constant barrage of input, you know, where you you are constantly having to react to something that is coming into you from the external getting away from all of that and just, having the time to just pause. I think, is actually how you, reach, re-energize and, and find who you are and actually get the ideas that are going to help you solve the problems that you need to when you do have to react. So anyway, I'm finding this sweet. Yeah. Yes. The book do nothing. I'm reading sapiens right now, which is great. Yeah. It reminded me of when we were talking about community, about how we all live together. I'm reading. I always read more than one book, so I'm reading sapiens, and then I'm reading, I just finished The Lost Bookshop, I think it was called The Lost Bookshop. It was fiction. It was. It was good. Anyway, so I always like to ask other readers what they're reading. So, well, you know, do you read? Go ahead. Do you read more than one book at a time? Sometimes. Sometimes I'll I'll listen. I'll be listening to an audiobook while reading another one. Yeah. Or I pick one book after another. And, you know, reading is something that I think, as we all know, it turns out, 68% of kids today in the United States do not read, read below their grade level. And this is going to largely impact the future. Let me being able to actually read something, a book requires attention, it requires focus, and it requires just some, you know, just reading skills. Yeah. Critical thinking, is developed through a wide range of reading and, I'm, I am fearful about the future because our kids are losing the ability to read. Yeah. Read and concentrate. So. Well. I have enjoyed meeting you so much, and you've just been such a wealth of information and so lovely. Thank you, Miyoko, for sharing with us. Oh, thank you, Lauren, for having me on it. Well, you take care, Thanks for listening, friend. From my heart to yours. Be well. Until we meet again.