Dr. Joel Fuhrman - Live to 100 in Good Health, Eat These Six Foods Daily

Dr. Fuhrman introduces us to the Nutritarian Diet; a diet of excellence that can help us live to 100 in good health.  He also discusses the dangers of keto and paleo diets, emphasizing the negative impact of animal protein on lifespan. Additionally, he shares personal anecdotes of miraculous recoveries through a nutritarian diet.

https://www.drfuhrman.com/guided-detox

https://www.drfuhrman.com/

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Transcript

You have likely heard of today's guest, Joel Furman, MD, because he is a seven time New York Times bestselling author and internationally recognized expert on nutrition and natural healing. He is a board certified family physician who specializes in preventing and reversing disease through nutritional methods. But I wanted to have him on the podcast because of his dedication, literally and figuratively.

In Dr. Furman's 2020 book, Eat for Life, this is the dedication, quote, this book is dedicated to all the people suffering with serious medical issues who were never informed that they could recover their health with nutritional excellence. The lack of information has denied them their inalienable rights, end quote. I wish that my doctor had the knowledge, the know -how and the guts to help me reverse my heart disease when I was diagnosed. I so admire.

his dedication to our health. Dr. Furman is the president of the Nutritional Research Foundation and on the faculty of Northern Arizona University Health Sciences Division. He coined the term Nutritarian to describe a nutrient dense style of eating designed to prevent cancer, slow aging and extend lifespan. Hell yeah, in his medical practice and through his books and television specials.

He continues to bring this life -saving message to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Dr. Furman also operates the Eat to Live retreat in San Diego. At this residential facility, people from around the world come to stay for one to three months to recover from conditions ranging from cardiovascular disease to autoimmune disease, food addiction, and more. They also gain skills and knowledge to make these changes permanent for when they leave the retreat.

Lauren Bernick (03:42.688)
I have put a link in the show notes for Dr. Furman's upcoming November detox. Please welcome a man with a big, beautiful heart and a desire to help people live long and healthy lives, Dr. Joel Furman. Welcome.

Joel Fuhrman (03:57.759)
thank you, Lauren. That was so nice of you.

Lauren Bernick (04:00.366)
It's the truth. I really admire your dedication to the message, just to letting people know that this is an option that quite frankly, nobody let me know when I was sick. So I appreciate that. had to seek it out on my own. Would have been nice if a doctor told me. Yeah. I know, I know. And you know, I feel like you grew up a little bit differently than

Joel Fuhrman (04:20.486)
Well, I'm very passionate about this message.

Lauren Bernick (04:27.936)
A lot of people because it seems like your dad was a pretty healthy eater. that correct?

Joel Fuhrman (04:33.508)
Well, he wasn't at first. He was actually overweight and sickly. And then he started reading natural hygiene literature, particularly Herbert Shelton's books, and changed his diet and brought all that literature into the house and started and it and encouraged us to change our diet when I was a kid. So my father was not a healthy eater. He was an overweight, very unhealthy eater. And then because he got so sick, he changed his diet and improved his health.

Lauren Bernick (04:59.054)
That's amazing. So were you kind of vegetarian growing up or just fruits and vegetables, you know, a lot more fruits and vegetables than most people and less processed food.

Joel Fuhrman (05:07.054)
Yes, lot more fruits and vegetables than most people. Maybe we had animal products a few times a week or something or less. And we was a gradual shift to more like what I recommend today. No, a gradual shift, not quite where I would recommend.

Lauren Bernick (05:23.8)
How old were you when he started making those changes?

Joel Fuhrman (05:27.984)
probably around 12 years old.

Lauren Bernick (05:31.363)
wow. Were you resistant to that?

Joel Fuhrman (05:33.974)
Actually, yes. I first thought he was crazy. I said, Dad, how could this be right and everybody else in the world be wrong? It just doesn't seem logical that everybody is wrong except for this small group of people coming out of Texas. could this small group of people have such a different view of everything? But over the years, I realized it made logical and scientific sense. So much of what I teach today was

Lauren Bernick (05:59.736)
Well, that's.

Joel Fuhrman (06:04.118)
advocated by some of these early pioneers that wrote books in the 1940s and 1950s.

Lauren Bernick (06:11.544)
That's incredible. I also know when you were growing up, you were an ice skater. I hope you're not sick of talking about this because it is so fascinating. You, I mean, I've seen your videos online. You and your sister were like champions, right? In the national pairs competition in the seventies.

Joel Fuhrman (06:29.328)
No, we were second place in 1973 in the United States. But the number one team quit. So we were ranked number one in the country in 1974, but I didn't get to the national championships because I got hurt. And I hurt my heel and I couldn't compete. So even though we were ranked one in the country, didn't, and then was on crutches for a year or something.

Lauren Bernick (06:33.079)
Incredible.

Lauren Bernick (06:50.32)
wow. Was that like you and your sister's idea or your mom? How did you guys start skating?

Joel Fuhrman (06:58.374)
we started skating from an ice skating rink close to our house and we started taking lessons. And then my father used to, you know, bring, he had a chain of shoe stores and he used to bring shoes up to the Catskill mountains. And we started taking lessons from a Swiss pro up there. And we just like snowballed. We just kind of liked it and kept doing it.

Lauren Bernick (07:13.912)
That's, were you at Kutcher's? Which hotel in the Catskills? We used to go up there.

Joel Fuhrman (07:19.8)
Yes, but I was mostly at Grossinger's because that's where Kurt Pohlwer was the Swiss skating pro at Grossinger's and we'd go up there on weekends. So my father would bring shoes up there and sell shoes to all the people. And then we'd take skating lessons there and skate there most of them. I was a kid. I never told anyone. Not many people know that.

Lauren Bernick (07:22.296)
Grossingers.

Lauren Bernick (07:37.793)
Isn't that incredible?

That's so funny. I mean, we used to go to Coutures up in the Catskills when I was a kid. I ended up doing standup comedy when I was in my 30s and 40s. And it was because of also the Catskill Mountains. Isn't that phenomenal? Because I used to go up there and I'd be like, is this a job? I'd see like Buddy Hackett and Robert Klein. I was like, this is a job for people? That sounds pretty good. Interesting.

Joel Fuhrman (07:47.034)
Really?

Joel Fuhrman (08:06.373)
Right.

Joel Fuhrman (08:10.805)
That's funny, because I've stolen some jokes from some of the things I've sort up there too when I was a kid. I've stolen some of those jokes.

Lauren Bernick (08:11.169)
Lauren Bernick (08:17.678)
Who did you see? What comics do you remember?

Joel Fuhrman (08:21.226)
well, the guy who ran that was the jokester there. He had a full -time comedian on staff who'd like run events and joke around the whole time. You know, I don't remember him. I don't remember the name right now, but, you know.

Lauren Bernick (08:35.016)
my gosh. So that's so funny. Yeah. So if anybody watched Mrs. Maisel, then they have kind of an idea of what actually went on there because it was pretty true. Did you watch that? You did. So, do you still, do you still skate at all?

Joel Fuhrman (08:46.627)
I did, yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (08:52.352)
Not really. I haven't skated in the last few years. I do, you know, I did, I don't know, maybe, you know, three times in five years, something like that. But I do snow ski. I go down moguls and steeps and powders and I snow ski a lot because I enjoy that a lot.

Lauren Bernick (09:00.258)
Hmm. Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (09:07.276)
That's, it takes a lot of strength. It's, you probably.

Joel Fuhrman (09:10.596)
You have to be fit and in good shape to be able to snow ski in your 70s and not get hurt. Not to just ski, anybody can snow ski. It's skiing the double blacks and the bums and the steeps and the take a lot of strength and quickness. So I work out so I can stay in shape because I love doing that stuff.

Lauren Bernick (09:16.355)
Wow.

Lauren Bernick (09:27.15)
That's great. Yeah. And not, not everybody can ski by the way. I've careened down a mountain, not so much as skated, but, so that's how old are you? you 71 or 70? How old are you? 70. And what do you love about being 70?

Joel Fuhrman (09:46.062)
I don't know.

I love my life. I love being physically active and doing stuff. you know, I'm passionate about what I do, but I'm not excited about being 70, except the fact that I can still do all the things I love, to play singles tennis and to work out hard and to climb mountains and to surf and to ski and to travel and to, you know, I like to be physically active and fit, but I don't like being 70. I'd rather be 60.

Lauren Bernick (10:16.526)
of it or 50 like a youngster. That's so funny. And you actually went to school a little bit later, not too late, but what? You were about 29 when you went to medical school? Yeah. What made you decide to want to be a doctor?

Joel Fuhrman (10:28.804)
Yes, that's true.

Joel Fuhrman (10:34.606)
I didn't really want to be a doctor. It's just that I got into this nutrition thing and I was so passionate that nutrition was the answer for people not to have heart attacks, strokes, cancers, asthma, immune system disorders, rheumatoid arthritis, colitis. I started to observe the natural ability of the human body to keep itself free of disease and reverse disease. And I thought that would be exciting to do that as a career. So I started taking some, but I had graduated college when I was still a figure skater.

So I hadn't taken any of the pre -med requirements at all. So I had to go back. A matter of fact, when I was out of college probably four or five years, and then I met my wife, Lisa, through my sister, was like five years younger than me. So my wife's five years younger than me too. So I met my wife, Lisa, mostly when my...

Sister had a graduation party, I started dating my wife Lisa. So I started talking to her and say, because she was applying and going to medical school. And I said, well, what are you going to medical school for? Because they just give people drugs for what our lifestyle and dietary -related illnesses is. It's just bogus and nobody really gets any better anyway. They just take drugs and still diet. So she said, well, if you're so passionate about that, why don't you go to medical school and make things and change things and make it different? So I said, well.

I don't really have the, I started to think about that and start to go back and take a course or two, but I realized I'm so overwhelmed that I didn't take any of those courses in college. So it's too late for me. I'm too old by now to do that. And then, so by dating my wife, by dating Lisa and then starting to, you know, get to know each other and she, you know, I learned that they were like, I could do it. could just, it gave me the motivation and the knowledge to say, okay, I'm going to quit my family business. I'm let my father retire and sell the business.

And there's an avenue where I can go back to the postgraduate pre -med program at Columbia and I can consolidate and get all these courses that I missed in a short period of time and not going to take me years to go to college over again. So I kind of learned about, and then I decided to that, to do that exactly that. Okay, I'm doing it. I would just drop everything, give up the shoe business and just start and go back to take the pre -medical requirements at the age of 27 or something, you know. And then I went to medical school at age 29. Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (12:46.926)
That's incredible. That's great. And you know, it's, that's not really old. mean, my husband went to law school at like 48 and yeah, I remember he's like, well, I'm going to be like 52 when I graduate. I'm like, well, you're going to be 52 anyway. You might as well have a law degree. You know, it's

Joel Fuhrman (12:56.139)
really?

Joel Fuhrman (13:03.458)
Yeah, yeah. What's happened considering like seven years of like, you know, two year of undergraduate waiting a year to get into see if you got into the school, four years of medical school, three years of residency, we don't sleep at night. And it's like it's a big sacrifice in your life. But it's but it was obviously the best decision I made because I really it's given me a I've been blessed with the opportunity to be useful to so many people. So I'm really lucky with that, having that opportunity.

Lauren Bernick (13:29.496)
Yeah, we're all lucky that you did that too. So you coined the phrase, Nutritarian. think that's, can you, we touched on it a bit in your intro, but can you really kind of explain a little bit about what a Nutritarian diet is?

Joel Fuhrman (13:45.038)
Yeah, it's a diet that's high, high in, where the foods are picked because they're nutrient rich and have the scientific studies that show they fight cancer and lengthen human lifespan. So it's a dietary portfolio that's constructed to maximize human lifespan. So I always say your health is dependent on the nutrient density.

Lauren Bernick (14:03.362)
Mm.

Joel Fuhrman (14:07.982)
of your cells, how many nutrients are in your cells, and the wide diversity of nutrients, the full complement of nutrients in the cells as well, as well as not being the cells not having toxins or chemicals or poisons in them as well. But of course, the nutritarian, and you know that the nutritarian is choosing their foods wisely. So another word for nutritarian would be a health nut. It just means we're eating healthfully, right? We're eating as healthy as we know how.

Lauren Bernick (14:35.213)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (14:37.89)
as we can. And we're not throwing junk food in our mouth using food as recreation. But that said, we can take these healthy foods like vegetables and fruits and beans and onions and mushrooms and berries, we can take these healthy foods and design gourmet and innovative recipes to make them taste fantastic. But that's the, but we're utilizing the right, proper ingredients to make things taste fantastic, not

self -destructive ingredients to make things taste better. And then you taste it and you like eating this way. You know, and all the people that have become, you could say, strict nutritarians and recovered their health and maintain an ideal way to eat so healthily, they all say they love eating this way more than their old diet even. Once they've learned the techniques, learned the recipes, and then given enough time for their taste buds to change.

Lauren Bernick (15:09.58)
Right, and you actually.

Lauren Bernick (15:24.642)
Yes.

Lauren Bernick (15:31.276)
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I'm one of those people who always said like, you can rip the brie out of my cold dead hands. I'll never give up dairy. And here I am. And I love eating this way. But you mentioned some of the things that you eat on a Nutritarian diet. You have like a famous little saying, you call them G -bombs. Can you tell us again what those stand for?

Joel Fuhrman (15:57.21)
Sure, BOMS, G -B -O -B -S, stands for Greens, Beans, Onions, Mushrooms, Berries, and Seeds. And those six foods are actually picked because they have the most scientific documentation to slow aging and fight off cancer. And you've put together a dietary portfolio that includes all those foods, and that's not all we're eating. We're just being cognizant to include those in our diet.

But we're trying to eat mushrooms every day and trying to eat flax seeds or chia seeds every day and trying to eat different types of mushrooms in our diet each day. And the four types of green vegetables we eat each day, right? There's cruciferous vegetables and there's non -cruciferous and they're both green. The cruciferous family is the broccoli, cabbage, Brussels sprout family that forms the ITCs, the isothiocyanides.

Joel Fuhrman (16:54.682)
that are probably the most powerful anti -cancer element in the diet. And we want to those both cooked and uncooked. So that's two types, cruciferous vegetables, both cooked and uncooked. So I put for lunch today, I had arugula on my salad and the arugula is a cruciferous vegetable. Then there's non -cruciferous vegetables, right? Like zucchini and okra and string beans and asparagus and artichokes. And I have those cooked and uncooked as well.

The non -cooked might be the lettuce I put on the salad. I had lettuce and cucumber today and I had some peas in the salad. And then I'm gonna have some cooked green vegetables at dinner like cooked asparagus or cooked, string beans or cooked zucchini with dinner. So I actually have four different types of green vegetables today, but I'm also having, of course, beans at least, maybe a bean soup, maybe a bean burger at night. So I'll have cooked beans with a diet and I'll also be eating maybe my breakfast oats or my breakfast amaranth.

has some ground flax seeds or chia seeds in it with the berries and the persimmon I put in there for breakfast. So in other words, we're also trying to pay attention to eating a certain amount of seeds and nuts a day, at least an ounce and a half of seeds and nuts, a half an ounce with each meal minimum. I probably eat more like three ounces a day, but at least an ounce and a half. And out of that ounce and a half of seeds and nuts eaten,

We're striving for half of that or close to half to coming from flax seeds, chia seeds, hemp seeds, and walnuts and pumpkin seeds. These nuts and seeds that have a high omega -3 content because the ALA gives you benefits. And then you have to make sure that you have an adequate EPA and DHA, that both your short chain omega -3 is adequate and your long chain omega -3 is adequate.

which can be measured by a blood test to assure nutritional adequacy.

Lauren Bernick (18:52.366)
Okay, I have a lot of questions about what you just said. Let me, okay. Okay, first of all, let me just ask you flax seeds. Do they have to be ground up fresh for them to be effective? I heard that before. Do you have to grind them fresh as you eat them?

Joel Fuhrman (18:54.65)
Yeah, we covered a lot. We covered a lot there.

Joel Fuhrman (19:06.522)
But you have to be... No, no, they can be ground in advance, but once you grind them, you shouldn't leave them at room temperature. You can store them in your refrigerator or freezer. If you're storing them for a long period of time, put them in your freezer. Store them for a short period time, keep them in your freezer. Either one, they come out of the freezer and they're fine. You can buy them ground in those vacuum sealed nitrogen packs and you could open it up and just keep it your freezer.

Lauren Bernick (19:24.396)
Okay.

Lauren Bernick (19:28.854)
Okay, that's actually what I do, but I was like, I've heard that that's not right. Okay, good. The G -bombs, the greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, seeds, how much of that do we need to eat every day? Like if I just have some onions sliced on my salad, is that okay? Or is it dose responsive? Like the more onions I can get in, the better. Is it like that?

Joel Fuhrman (19:53.594)
Kind of, but there's a threshold effect. The threshold effect means that certainly you're get more improvement from passing the quarter cup level, but once you pass the half a cup, you're not gonna see further improvements in health. So there's a certain threshold to a point. The only food group where there's no threshold are the green vegetables. There's numerous studies on green vegetables that show when people go from one cup to two cups to three cups to even four cups, they continue to see lifespan advantages.

So there's not as much of an early threshold. You would think green vegetables are good, but I had my two cups of greens today. I had my cup of raw greens. I had my cup of cooked greens. That's enough. But probably it's not enough. Not if you want to maximize human lifespan, because the studies show that those in a higher intake have even longer lifespans, generally speaking.

Lauren Bernick (20:39.182)
Okay. So generally about a half a cup of more a day for mushrooms and beans and so forth.

Joel Fuhrman (20:47.888)
No, I'd say at least, I'd say a quarter cup for mushrooms. You don't need to that many mushrooms. you're deep because we, and I'm just, this is just a guesstimate and I'll tell you it's a guesstimate because there was a study on more than a hundred thousand Asian women and these women had 10 grams of mushrooms a day on the average. That's the size of your thumb. And that's not even a quarter cup. that, one intervention decreased risk of breast cancer incidents by 64%. So if 10 grams is the size of your thumb, so probably

Lauren Bernick (20:53.673)
really?

Lauren Bernick (21:15.342)
Wow.

Joel Fuhrman (21:17.776)
probably were saying, you know, a quarter cup is probably 25 grams. I'm just guesstimating that you're not going to see a huge more benefit. But when they mixed, they looked at women who ate greens and mushrooms or green tea and mushrooms both, and they had a decreased risk of incidence of breast cancer by 89%. So we're talking about the power food has to control our health destiny. And most people out there have no concept

of how powerful the right foods are to prevent cancer and to modulate our lifespan. Modulating our lifespan, of course, is mostly slowing aging, but preventing heart attacks, strokes, dementia, and cancer.

Lauren Bernick (21:59.982)
Absolutely, because that's the point. And really the point of this podcast is because you don't want to live to be 100 and the last 20 years are like you're in a wheelchair and drooling on yourself. want to be able to... Yeah, who wants that? Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (22:13.954)
or be demented. Right. And there are a lot of plant -based eaters who eat so healthfully and then wind up getting dementia or Parkinson's. They risk their brain health due to having DHA deficiencies because the amount of the ability to convert the short chain omega -3 from walnuts and flax seeds and green vegetables into the long chain fats that the brain needs is very different from person to person.

and very genetically dependent. So some people may produce enough and other people may not. So we have to pay attention to that, particularly monitoring the blood test to see if supplementation is needed or how much supplementation is needed. It's not whether you take once you get demented or when you're older, you gotta have your lifetime exposure to be favorable, just like your lifetime exposure to salt has to be favorably low and your lifetime exposure to meat has to be favorably low. We can't wait till we're older and make the switch and expect to maximize human lifespan.

Lauren Bernick (23:12.354)
Yeah, one of the things that I really do appreciate about you is that you're data -driven, you read the studies and you analyze them and you don't have blinders on because I think that a lot of the plant -based doctors are like, just eat a plant -based diet, you're gonna be getting everything from that. And I used to think that and I have come to find out through my own

blood tests that yeah, sometimes my hair was falling out and I was like, why is my hair falling out? And I wasn't eating iodized salt and.

Joel Fuhrman (23:47.888)
I know it's so silly. Look at it as a religion. I'm going through that now. It's like, because, you know, I'm not bragging or anything. It's just that I'm a physician who's seen, has had patient, you know, tens or hundreds of thousands of patients that I've seen over the years. And I've been a physician for, you know, thousands of vegans and plant -based eaters until their elderly years, including the leaders of the American Natural Hydro Society and leaders of vegan societies that come to me.

had a tremendous amount of experience and these people want to bury that. And my experience is that many vegans develop neurologic deficits in later life, even though they were still could have had good health if the brain function would have been better. And it an, and it correlated with Omega -3 index. And it's not my independent findings. This is corroborated by numerous more than a dozen separate studies that show that a low Omega -3 index.

is linked to cognitive impairment and brain shrinkage in later life. And there are some people using rat studies to argue and deny and all kinds of illogical arguments. They look at studies that show that high dose fish oil has some dangers and they say don't take any. They look at studies showing rats don't produce enough for their liver and they think we do. They give all these excuses instead of, the reality is why take a risk? Although reference this one study that

Lauren Bernick (24:47.854)
Mm

Joel Fuhrman (25:13.508)
comes to a conclusion that you could make enough on your own. And their basis that they're coming to is because rats make enough and because we don't see a higher risk of dementia in vegans as a whole than regular standard American diet eaters, which is completely illogical argument. Because the cause of dementia in a standard American diet eaters, antioxidant deficiencies and excess consumption of animal products and toxicity. In a vegan, the cause of dementia or Parkinson's

they're already getting a lot of antioxidants, don't have lot of atherosclerosis, they have good circulation, they don't have narrowing of the blood vessels of the brain, their cause of dementia is mostly caused by DHA deficiency. just because vegans, even if they had less dementia than standard American diet eaters who are doing everything wrong, vegans are just doing a little thing wrong, so why should we put people at risk and why should even a smaller, why should a lower number of percent of people getting dementia just because of this?

religious like ferocity that people passion have to think that the vegan diet is adequate with no supplementation. So you get a lot of deniers out there that don't, and they're not well versed in the science. They don't look at all the data out there, because if they did, they would see the huge risk, the huge risks from low omega -3 index. We have lots of studies documenting that. And my personal experience is frightening, as all the patients I've cared for that were super healthy eaters and that developed dementia.

Lauren Bernick (26:11.117)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (26:34.808)
including many of well -known people that people know, like Shelton developed Parkinson's and Sidway developed Parkinson's and Albert developed Parkinson's and Dr. Patrano developed dementia and doctor. So we're talking about, know, all, Joy Gross developed dementia. All these people who live so healthfully on these, not just a vegan diet, like a natural organic plant -based diet, still develop neurological deficits. And even if it wasn't, it's the majority of them, but even if it wasn't the majority.

Even if it was 10%, and it's not, it's like 80%, but if it was 10%, it would still be something we should be careful of if we could prevent it from happening.

Lauren Bernick (27:09.826)
So the foods we should be eating are for this nuts, seeds, flax, chia, pumpkin seeds, that correct? Walnuts. But what supplementation? We should be taking algae or?

Joel Fuhrman (27:20.005)
Yes sir.

Joel Fuhrman (27:23.822)
Yes, reckon, right, both, because we need the short chain omega -3 fatty acids, have stabilizing effect on the heart, and there's not retrograde. What's that? From walnuts and blackleaves and chia seeds. The ALO.

Lauren Bernick (27:31.554)
Is that for your gut? But that's for your gut? Short chain fatty acids? Or for your heart?

Joel Fuhrman (27:40.324)
Well, we're talking about shorter chain omega -3 fatty acids. The short chain fatty acids made in the gut by degrading resistant starch from beans are not the same thing. Those are different types of short chain fatty acids. But these are short chain omega -3s. Short chain omega -3s come from walnuts, flax seeds, chia seeds, hemp seeds, and green vegetables. And those are necessary. But you still should take some

Lauren Bernick (27:45.259)
Okay.

Lauren Bernick (27:51.158)
Okay, okay, so go ahead. So we should be eating.

Joel Fuhrman (28:07.81)
long chain omega -3 fatty acids, the algae oil or the fish oil, but usually algae oil for vegans, to get both the short chain and the longer chain omega -3s. Now, I'm being very clear that some individuals can produce adequate omega -3 fatty acids without taking the supplement, but that should be documented with the blood test. know, people will say, the blood test doesn't matter. Whatever it shows isn't accurate.

But that's not what the studies show. The studies show that it does correlate with the risk of brain shrinkage and dementia in later life. So it would be really foolish and irresponsible to have a person to be on a 100 % vegan diet and ignore the fact that they have a low omega -3 index.

Lauren Bernick (28:54.606)
Okay, so people should get a blood test. And then what are the other supplements you recommend? I think zinc and B12 and what else?

Joel Fuhrman (28:57.006)
Right.

Joel Fuhrman (29:04.048)
Well, zinc is present in plant foods. We don't absorb it as well as from animal products. And we have, we reduce absorption of zinc as we age. And zinc supplementation has been shown to protect against prostate and breast cancer and dramatically lower risk of developing pneumonia in later life. So I do recommend people take additional zinc over and above what's in the food. If you're on a plant -based diet.

We could say, why don't you just add some oysters or clams to your diet and get a little zinc from eating the seafood? And the answer to that is because those foods are strongly associated with Parkinson's disease and PDS and Parkinson's dementia syndrome and ALS, by the way, with all the dumping of garbage into the oceans and the agricultural runoff causing more algae bloom, which grows cyanobacteria and then produces more of a toxin called BMAA.

So the coastal lake fish, particularly shellfish and bivalves, bivalves and musters and oysters and mussels and scallops are very high, dangerously high in BMAA because these toxins settle to the bottom and they're bottom feeders. And people who consume these foods regularly have increased risk of neurologic deficits. And there's clusters of ALS around Chesapeake Bay and inland lakes for people being poisoned with these substances.

So we're no longer recommending people utilize these zinc -rich seafoods or DHA -rich seafoods as a source of these nutrients. It's safer just to go right to the sub.

Lauren Bernick (30:38.498)
That's crazy. have a friend, actually we interviewed her on season one, my friend Susie, her sister is a fishmonger and she won't eat fish. She said, she's not even talking about like the microplastics, she's talking about when you cut open a fish, there's actual garbage in it. She's like, it's disgusting, I won't eat fish anymore. And she's, that's what she does for a living.

Joel Fuhrman (30:59.438)
Yeah. Yeah, I completely, you I used to have fish once in a while, but now not at all because, you know, we used to think that sardines are pretty good because they're not a bigger fish like a predatory fish, like a tuna or a shark or a swordfish that have all the mercury and lead in PCBs because they're not predatory fish. They eat a lot of little fish, but they're little fish, but their digestive tract is full of microplastic particles. And you're eating plastic if you're eating those foods, you know, probably

50 years ago, it was probably a cleaner food, but in today's society, you're getting too many chemicals in your body when you eat those foods. People go to Starbucks and they pour hot coffee into plastic -lined cups and they get a lot of plastic that way. And so many plastics in people's bodies today. They're endocrine disruptors and they contribute to the process of carcinogenesis.

Lauren Bernick (31:49.068)
Yeah, there's so many things, so many things that we do to ourselves. But yeah, that's why this kind of diet can stave off a lot of that. You also are a big proponent of eating at least one salad a day. that, you still do that?

Joel Fuhrman (32:05.942)
Absolutely. That's my mantra. say the salad is the main dish. In other words, at least one meal a day, you have a big salad as your main dish. And we do that here in the retreat at lunchtime. We try to structure the diet to make it skeletonized so it's easily reproduced when the person goes home. So people come to my retreat and the breakfast is typically, you know, like a little bit of grain with some seed ground seeds, a cup of wild berries on top.

with some mango or cherries or something. it's pretty, so you have your fruit, your berries, your grain, your seeds, your plant milk. And then for lunch, you have a big salad, a bowl of vegetable bean soup and some fresh fruit. People had figs and kiwis today after they had a corn mushroom bean soup. And then they had a big salad with one of those Thousand Island type dressings made with tomato sauce and garlic and pine nuts and hemp seeds. we make the dressings, they're not made with salt and oil.

They're made instead of oil and vinegar, we're using nuts and seeds and vinegar. So we'll use roasted garlic and a thickened tomato sauce, or it could be a mix in orange with some cashews and toasted sesame seeds and blood orange vinegar. So whatever it is, we're not using oil, we're using the whole nut or seed as the fat source, which makes a huge difference. And people underestimate that one little change in your diet that has such a huge implication for your future health. And that is...

get your fat from nuts and seeds, not from oils. Huge difference. And creates, you know, people to be furious and because they're being brainwashed to think that oil and men, they said, what about the Mediterranean? What about olive oil? Yeah. What are you talking about? Everybody else is drinking olive oil. You what are you saying? Eat nuts and seeds, you know? You know, so they've been so brainwashed by the media and by the power of the food industry to spend billions of dollars to market, you know, nonsense and myths.

Lauren Bernick (33:47.672)
What about the olive oil?

Joel Fuhrman (34:03.824)
that they don't understand the avalanche of scientific information showing the anti -cancer and lifespan enhancing benefits of things like walnuts and flaxseeds and chia seeds compared to oil. just think, sure, oil is better than butter. We don't buy a car by comparing it to a junkyard wreck. It's better to eat oil and animal fats and butter, sure. But it's not better to eat olive oil than to eat a walnut. So it's got to see what's, and one of the huge benefits you get from walnuts, you get a 40 % reduction. We're talking about, you get a,

The studies show like a 15 % reduction in cardiovascular death from using olive oil, which is significant compared to using other sources of fat, right? So that's not a bad thing. But people using nuts and seeds as a source of fat get an additional 40 % lowering of cardiovascular death and it's a heart attack rate, which is huge. An additional 40 % lowering from people who use olive oil. So we're talking here about a huge benefit from these nuts and seeds we're talking about. And as well as...

Lauren Bernick (34:57.795)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (35:01.84)
about a 30 % reduction in all -cause mortality. So I'll repeat that one more time. A 40 % reduction in cardiovascular mortality and a 30 % reduction in all -cause mortality. There's no other food that has that degree of benefit maybe except for high -screen vegetable consumption. And it's not one study. I'm not referring one study. I'm referring more than 50 studies that corroborate this information. And I published a journal article that says, the title was,

Nuts and Seeds for Prevention and Reversal of Heart Disease, published in the International Journal of Disease Reversal and Prevention. And that study that we published had more than 50 references documenting the evidence here. So it's kind of like irrefute, it's proven information by now.

Lauren Bernick (35:47.266)
Yeah, yes, I came to this way of eating, not eating nuts and seeds for very long time and I've reversed my stance on that because of studies like this. so again, I appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Yeah, I agree.

Joel Fuhrman (36:04.656)
Right, 50 studies trump one study, right? 50 studies with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people trump one study with 50 people.

Lauren Bernick (36:13.228)
Well, know, every time I would bring nuts and seeds into my diet, I have that familial high cholesterol and high Lp little a and all that. And so every time I would bring nuts and seeds into my diet, my cholesterol goes really high. But I've come to realize that it doesn't matter. I have to go with maybe it's making my cholesterol higher, but I'm not eating any other cholesterol. I'm not eating sources of cholesterol.

dairy and chicken and all that. So whatever my body is producing is producing.

Joel Fuhrman (36:49.198)
Yeah, it might be bringing your cholesterol to a level that's beneficial to your long -term health. Maybe you needed that cholesterol for your brain. But what I'm saying right now is that's not what the studies show. The studies show that dose -dependently, that as you eat more nuts and seeds, cholesterol goes down. So doesn't mean there certain outliers. It would be different for some person or different for you. But the studies show generally, we take large numbers of people, the cholesterol goes down with increased levels of nuts and seeds. And that's because

Lauren Bernick (36:54.978)
Maybe.

Joel Fuhrman (37:18.596)
that the sterols and stannols and nuts and seeds bind fat in the gut and they suck oxidized LDL out of the bloodstream for excretion in the stool or the feces. An oxidized LDL, not total LDL, is the worst actor, the bad actor, causing heart attack deaths. So the inclusion of nuts and seeds may not have a huge effect, but it does lower LDL cholesterol, but it lowers oxidized LDL in a more profound way.

and offers dramatic protection against both cardiac arrhythmia, sudden cardiac death, and myocardial infarction, all causes of cardiovascular death.

Lauren Bernick (37:55.01)
Yeah, my oxidized LDL is very low. My LDL is not low. But you know what? I have to just make decisions. I have to make decisions.

Joel Fuhrman (37:58.978)
Okay, there you have it. It's the oxidized LDL that's important, not the total LDL.

Lauren Bernick (38:07.342)
Right. And you know, we've been brainwashed like you have to get your cholesterol down. You have to get your LDL down. I mean, mine's not going down. can tell you, I don't need a bit of, mean, I don't need, my LDL is, you know, it just ranges. It's probably like 120, 140. It's not low.

Joel Fuhrman (38:17.84)
What's the number of your LDL?

Joel Fuhrman (38:26.288)
That's not high on a healthy diet. The reason, all right, but the reason why people want to lower, doctors want to lower that with a statin drug is because that's all the tools they have. And because people are eating so poorly that an LDL of 120 looks unfavorable. Yeah. So let's say 120 to 140 looks unfavorable in unhealthy eaters, but in healthy eaters.

Lauren Bernick (38:40.482)
what they have.

Lauren Bernick (38:45.294)
Or 140 maybe, yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (38:54.032)
an LDL of 120 to 140 with a favorably oxidized LDL has no risk factors and lowering that with a statin is no benefit. So you should just, you're probably, so don't worry about it. The benefit is based on fear and it's the fear to get, have people take drugs for things, for endpoints that doctors can measure. And most of time people shouldn't be focused on these endpoints. They should be focused on eating right and losing weight.

Lauren Bernick (39:06.572)
Yeah, that's where I've landed. Yes.

Joel Fuhrman (39:23.152)
because it's the body fat that causes the high end point. In other words, the body fat causes the triglycerides to be high. The body fat caused the diabetes. The body fat causes the high cholesterol. The body fat, so it's getting the saturated fat out of your body by keeping your body fat percent low, not taking drugs to fix these parameters. That's why the medical profession has almost zero impact on lifespan. We're not living longer today than we lived 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago. We're not extending lifespan with modern.

care, nothing's happening. If anything, it's gotten worse, not because of doctors, it's gotten worse because people are eating even worse and getting, getting heavier. But doctors contribute to the shortened lifespan in a way that's intellectual because, because people think doc, what doctors do is so powerful and they think doctors have the answer to save lives. So therefore they don't pay attention to their diet because they think the drug is going to be good enough. If they lower their cholesterol with a drug, they lower the stat, they're,

blood pressure with the drug, the blood sugar with the drug, the drugs are like permission slips. The prescription pad, I call a permission pad. It allows people to live. When doctors never had these drugs and interventions, people would be forced to get their blood pressure down and get their blood sugar down and get their cholesterol fixed with their diet and exercise programs. So it just allow people to be more on a subconscious level to think they're okay when they're not okay, because the drugs make things look better.

Lauren Bernick (40:29.858)
Yes.

Lauren Bernick (40:40.172)
Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (40:48.108)
Right, right. Yeah, my cardiologist was like, well, you just, he's like, after he gave me the Cleveland Heart Lab panel and my numbers came back so great, he was like, well, I still think you need to eat a paleo diet and take a stat. And I was like, okay, well, we're gonna not do that. But why do you think the keto and the paleo are so appealing to people? Is it because they get to eat meat or? I know that it has some short -term benefits.

But what's the long -term damage of eating keto and paleo?

Joel Fuhrman (41:22.532)
Well, first of all, if you asked me what was the most profound and surprising data from the world of scientific literature over last five years, the answer would be that multiple studies with each study from different researchers around the world corroborating each other, showing the same thing, that as animal protein goes up in the diet, so does lifespan go down in a dose -dependent manner.

So we have excellent evidence that as animal protein goes up, longevity and lifespan goes down. So much so that the highest risk of premature death, and premature death is defined as death before the age of 70, was found in people on keto diets. They had the, as their, because they're generally eating less than 30 % from carbohydrate. So the low carbohydrate diet creating chronic ketosis, chronic acid, acidosis.

causing dramatically lifespan shortening, consistent or worse than cigarette smoking. Yeah. So we're talking about, you can smoke cigarettes to lose weight too and get some shortening. Yeah. That's a soft endpoint. A soft endpoint means you lost weight, your triglycerides look better, your sugars look better, your appetite's down. That's called a soft endpoint. Even the cholesterol over in the statin drug is a soft endpoint.

Lauren Bernick (42:32.594)
My mother did that.

Joel Fuhrman (42:48.528)
A heart endpoint is actually age of death, whether you've got cancer or a heart attack. That's called a heart endpoint. So we don't know if giving a statin drug to you or to a group of people just because the cholesterol goes down, does that translate into a longer life? Well, we have to follow people for 30 years and a large number of people for 30 years to see if they're living long, because maybe the statin drugs cause more cancers and the people have lower cholesterol, and that's going to balance any lifespan and have advantage from the lower and the cholesterol. So we don't know for sure until we, the long -term studies corroborate the short -term studies.

When you have long -term studies that corroborate short -term studies, then something becomes more proven. In the field of keto, we know that they have some short -term studies that might show some soft endpoint benefits, but we now have the long -term studies that have come out in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 22, and 23. We have more than six different studies now, all with large numbers of people far for decades, showing that those diets are exceedingly long -term dangerous. And there's no short -term benefit that you get from that diet over and above a nutritionarian diet without taking those dangers into account.

what I'm saying right now, you could do it in a healthy way and lose the weight and get rid of it. You don't have to go to an unhealthy way to lose weight. You don't have to smoke cigarettes to lose weight. There are safer ways to do that. You don't have to go on keto to lose weight. And anything you do short term is not going to result in any benefit either. So if you did it short term to lose weight, you still wouldn't stay at that weight if you went off the diet. So you might as well learn the right diet you're going to need to stay with long term. It's just ignorance and also misinformation in the form of propaganda.

that people want to believe because they like eating, certainly they like eating animal products, they like eating meat.

Lauren Bernick (44:20.61)
That's what I think. think that people like eating that and that gives them permission like you said, but I want people to understand that.

Joel Fuhrman (44:25.956)
There's billions of dollars spent on that. There's billions of dollars put out by the animal agriculture industry, billions of dollars by the dairy industry alone, and the egg industry spends billions. There are not billions spent by the bean industry and by the broccoli industry. So there's a huge amount of propaganda and even supporting people advocating those type of diets with money to perpetuate the consumption of these dangerous foods.

Lauren Bernick (44:52.248)
Yep, you never hear about big broccoli infiltrating the system. Yeah, and so, but I want people to understand that the all -cause mortality was the people who had the highest death were the people who ate the lowest amount of good carbohydrates, right? Is that, because...

Joel Fuhrman (45:13.856)
Correct. But what these studies show that even though animal protein was linked to short in lifespan, dose dependent, the more you ate, the shorter your lifespan, plant protein was linked to longer lifespan, not plant carbohydrate, but plant protein was linked to longer lifespan. So ultimately it's eating more plant foods that are rich in protein. And the three foods richest in protein that are from plants,

are nuts and seeds, beans, and green vegetables, particularly green vegetables. So green vegetables, beans, and nuts and seeds are also foods that are linked to longevity, not just because they contain a lot of plant protein, because they contain a huge amount of bioflavonoids and other phytonutrients that prevent cancer. So we know we're green vegetable dependent animal, and we also have ergothenian receptors that have anti -aging effects that come from mushrooms. So the point I'm making is that these

Lauren Bernick (45:59.182)
That's right.

Joel Fuhrman (46:08.784)
plant foods that are rich in protein are super foods that prevent cancer. And almost all of the plant categories have adequate protein except for fresh fruit. So the only way you make a plant diet harmfully low in protein is by pouring oil on your food because for every 100 calories of oil, you sucked out six to eight grams of protein that you could have gotten had you had the fat from the whole food, from the nut and seed or eating too much fruit.

When your diet, especially as we age and our protein needs go up, if your diet is too high in fruit, then you're cutting down the protein of your diet. Because intact grains, vegetables, beans, nuts, and seeds, the other four categories, and beans or legumes, are all food groups that are much higher in protein.

Lauren Bernick (46:58.232)
Can you talk a little bit about resistant starch?

Joel Fuhrman (47:03.492)
Yes, we score carbohydrates on a hierarchal scale of quality based on their nutrient levels, their anti -cancer content, their anti -cancer nutrient content, and their levels of fiber and resistant starch, and their glycemic load. Let me say that one more time. A carbohydrate could have a higher glycemic load, like white rice or white potato or white bread, or it could have a low glycemic load, like peas or beans are the lowest, right?

They don't so slowly into the body because they have so slow digestible carbohydrates, their carbohydrates are so slowly digested that the glucose is broken down over hours instead of spiking sugar in your blood, like when you eat white rice, potato or bread. So, but besides the fact that beans are high in protective anti -cancer nutrients, like IP5 and Nacetolpenticose Phosphate and other flavors, besides it being high in nutrients and very high in protein,

They're also highest in resistant starch. And the resistant starch gets degraded by bacteria into the to these short -chain fatty acids that have an anti -inflammatory and anti -aging effect. But also the butyrate of the short -chain fatty acid from the breakdown of beans has an effect on the apistat and the hypothalamus in the brain. It has you desire less calories. it produces these

messengers that signal the brain that you've had enough food and you're not hungry anymore. So the beans are very filling and the resistant starch calories don't enter the bloodstream. They actually, the fat, they turn into these short -chain fatty acids so far down in the digestive tract that 90 % of those fats are lost in the toilet bowl. So that all the calories don't even come into your body. So you feel like you ate all these calories.

Lauren Bernick (48:51.042)
That's so fascinating.

Joel Fuhrman (48:57.04)
You're satiated in the brain like you're perfectly comfortable and full, but eventually those calories never all come in. So it makes you moderate. So they're very great aid for weight loss and people with a metabolic hindrance to weight loss. But because some of those starch calories are not coming in, the 30 % protein content of a bean is not really 30%. It's really like 37 % because all the carbohydrate calories don't enter the bloodstream. So as percent of calories that enter the bloodstream, the beans are even higher in protein than you thought.

Lauren Bernick (49:23.864)
Yeah, that's the craziest part of it all is that you're not even absorbing all those calories. So you're getting all the benefits from the food and that's why people tend to lose weight on this kind of diet or lifestyle. It's amazing.

Joel Fuhrman (49:35.962)
Yes. Yeah. And all the calories, nuts and seeds are not absorbed either. lot of the calories are carried out into the toilet. So you get satisfied. You know, when you eat greens, beans and nuts and seeds, they act like a natural GTPL1 or GTPL1 inhibitor. They kind of like slow gas. Yeah. They make you feel satisfied. Craving to eat all day long. They make, know, so we're trying to, and the, is the secret to, you know, this is the secrets to.

Lauren Bernick (49:41.079)
Right.

Lauren Bernick (49:51.82)
yeah, like Ozempic. Ozempic and Wigovy.

Joel Fuhrman (50:05.518)
superior health in a long life. You you eat these foods that humans are supposed to be eating.

Lauren Bernick (50:07.693)
Yeah.

Yeah. So you're, you're saying by eating this way, you know, really not eating meat, dairy oil, by eating lots of fruits and vegetables, by eating a big salad every day and chewing it, you're a big proponent of chewing a lot. I know that, right? What's your rule about chewing?

Joel Fuhrman (50:26.042)
Yeah, because

Well, what I'm saying is that the most powerful longevity promoting nutrient and the most powerful anti -cancer nutrients come from cruciferous vegetables like arugula and kale and bok choy and broccoli. But that nutrient, the ITC with all that power, is not in the vegetable until you chew it. It's formed in your mouth as you're chewing it. And the amount you form of this lifespan enhancing substance is based on how well you chew the food.

You have to break open the cells and release the myrosinase compound that's found in a little packet in the cell wall. And you have to break open those packets for the chemical reaction to form the isothiocyanates in your mouth. So how well you chew those green vegetables is dependent on how much ITC exposure you have. So yeah, we want people to be mindful during their lunch and to try to really chew down those vegetables to a liquid to get maximum anti -cancer benefit from.

Lauren Bernick (51:24.802)
I need to be a little better about that. Like when I remember I do good, but then sometimes I'm just chowing. need to be, so you're saying if we do all these things that we should have a healthy lifespan of a hundred years, you know, by eating the nuts and beans and greens and berries and mushrooms and yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (51:43.952)
That's right. That's what I'm saying. We'll be absolutely clear here that the average American lives usually between 75 and 80 years old. It's a bell -shaped curve, so some live 70 and some live 85 or 90, but they all center around 78 years old, let's say. And the blue zones around the world where people eat more plant food, they usually have eight to 10 years added lifespan. So they're living like 85 to 90.

If I gave them 10 lifespan over America, their average age might be like 88 with a bell -shaped curve. Now a Neutritarian gets an additional 10 years of lifespan on top of that, on top of a blue zone. So most Neutritarians we're saying are living between like 95 and 105 years old, and their center death point might be around 100 years old. And that's what I'm claiming is like more of a natural lifespan for people who, that we should expect if we took care of our health. You know, we're not going to live to be 120, but we can live to be 100 years old.

Lauren Bernick (52:36.397)
well.

Lauren Bernick (52:40.672)
and be healthy, that's the thing. So, okay, I'm just gonna ask you a couple more questions, did we cover, what are the three factors that slow aging? Did we kind of work that in already?

Joel Fuhrman (52:52.932)
We covered a lot of it, let's have people write down these five words as the most proven methodology to slow aging, most proven of anything to slow aging. Say what these five words are. It's moderate caloric restriction in the context of micronutrient excellence or moderate caloric restriction with micronutrient excellence. Trying to meet our micronutrient needs.

in an excellent manner means that the density of our cells have enough micronutrients in them, and the diversity is very wide of all the nutrients humans need. And the moderate caloric restriction means that we're eating the foods that satisfy us nutritionally so we don't become a calorie consuming monster. We don't want to overeat foods anymore. Overeating means because we're not getting our nutrient needs met, and people are eating so unhealthy, it forces them to overeat and get overweight. Because body fat percent is a huge, is the incredibly strong factor

which controlling your longevity. So your caloric window controls your longevity. When you don't eat healthy enough, you desire a higher caloric window. When you eat very healthy, you desire less calories, you're satisfied with less. And then if you're overweight, significantly overweight, you can't be healthy. There's no such thing as a healthy overweight person because fat cells make you insulin resistant. They spew out pro -inflammatory cytokines and lipokines and free radicals.

and they raise estrogen levels, increase the risk of prostate and breast cancer. And they raise, so there's all these biological mechanisms which make you age faster when you're overweight. So you can't be healthy and overweight.

Lauren Bernick (54:32.044)
What's the most miraculous recovery you've ever seen? I know you've seen a lot. Do you have one that stands out in your mind?

Joel Fuhrman (54:40.656)
I have two that stand out. One is a lady named Lee, and she had metastatic breast cancer to her bones with a positive bone scan. And after following this diet for a year, her bone scan cleared and she had no signs of breast cancer anymore. And that was with no chemotherapy or no intervention except for the diet. Yeah, that was an incredible recovery. I'll give you one more, which is pretty incredible. She was a 16 year old girl.

Lauren Bernick (55:02.254)
That's incredible.

Joel Fuhrman (55:09.36)
on the national renal transplant list with lupus nephritis, which had destroyed her kidney. Her creatinine was 4 .2. And after following this program, her lupus disappeared and her kidney function all came back to normal again with a creatinine of 0 .8. That's 4 .2 represents the loss of 90 % of kidney function, waiting for a kidney transplant to the point of having a normal kidney and not needing having morning health problems again. So her kidney regenerated itself. What's that?

Lauren Bernick (55:36.75)
How long did that take? How long did that take?

Joel Fuhrman (55:39.64)
It only took about nine months.

Lauren Bernick (55:43.361)
months.

Joel Fuhrman (55:43.984)
Nine months, you can have a baby in nine months. This person grew back a new kidney. Amazing, Stopping. Yeah, I've had so many satisfying, it's so rewarding. Obviously, I went to medical school because I knew this would be exciting to watch people get well. I knew I'd love doing that, but it's always thrilling. After 30, 40 years of doing this, I see people get well every day and it's just always thrilling. People come into my retreat here and within

Lauren Bernick (55:46.167)
Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (55:51.044)
That's incredible. I know.

Joel Fuhrman (56:11.92)
80 % of them are diabetic free in the first eight weeks. Just this morning, somebody said to me, I'm off my 80 units of insulin. My sugar was 105 this morning. He's only been here, what is this, time of the month? Came out the first of the month and today's like the 16th or something. I don't know. He's only been here for over two weeks. It's been 15 days and he's got rid of his diabetes already. It's amazing how it's always exciting and encouraging. And people come here with non -healing wounds and they come here with some like brain fog and sometimes even dementia that clears.

Lauren Bernick (56:25.198)
15 days.

Joel Fuhrman (56:42.02)
They get their function, sometimes they can't walk and now they're able to go out and walk a few miles. It's amazing how we can facilitate healing if we do everything right. But I also have a soft wave machine here too. It gives water shock waves like lithotripsy to break up kidney stones. We have a very high tech machine that breaks up calcifications in joints. Like when a person has a frozen shoulder or a back or a bad knee. So when they're eating right and losing weight.

Lauren Bernick (57:07.639)
Yeah!

Joel Fuhrman (57:11.044)
We're trying to restore the function of their joints so they can now be active, go in the pool, go for hikes, play games. So we have this very expensive high tech equipment that works pretty complimentary with the low tech diet to get rid of people's aging joints and osteoarthritis, back problems, knee problems, shoulder problems, carpal tunnel. so in combination, that helps in combination with a diet. It softens up scar tissue and calcifications that cause joint pain.

Lauren Bernick (57:39.906)
That's, I'm gonna put all of that stuff in the show notes along with your detox program that's coming up so people can find out about it. But that's gotta be incredible to see that happen. Let me ask you some personal questions now. What was your favorite concert you ever went to?

Joel Fuhrman (58:01.306)
Favorite concert?

Lauren Bernick (58:02.968)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (58:04.272)
Probably Jay and the Americas, when I was in college, I was thrilled by one of the first concerts. They were so cool and so good. You ever hear of them?

Lauren Bernick (58:12.792)
What was, you know what, I feel like I've heard of them, but what was their big song?

Joel Fuhrman (58:18.339)
Caramere?

Lauren Bernick (58:19.662)
Caramilla, I'm not, can't say I'm familiar with them.

Joel Fuhrman (58:21.524)
how about Only in America? Let's see. I don't know. I've been to a lot. Well, probably the first one. I love Bruce Springsteen too. know. Yes. Look up Jay and the Americas though.

Lauren Bernick (58:27.48)
That was your favorite concert?

Yeah. That one I've heard of that kids up and coming that Bruce Springsteen, Jay and the Americas. I bet you, I know who they are. mean, I love music from all Jay Black or Jay. He wasn't eating a Nutritarian diet. Probably. We'll find out if Jay's still alive. I'm going to dig into that. what was.

Joel Fuhrman (58:42.992)
His name was Jay Black. He's probably dead by now.

I don't know if he died. I don't know. I'm just saying. He's older than me.

Lauren Bernick (58:59.106)
the best advice you've ever received in your life. It doesn't have to be anything around eating well.

Joel Fuhrman (59:07.353)
The best advice I've received has to do with learning how not to be stressed and learning, know, and that comes from, it really comes from getting rid of your ego and having compassion for others. Because if you don't have an ego, then you don't care what people think of you. You don't care what people saying, you can't be affected by anybody else because you don't care. You get all your self esteem from how you are treating others and your compassion and feeling for others. So I think it has to do with

It's not like one best advice, it's the culmination of advice is from various things I've learned along the way. know, maybe things I've learned when I was younger from aesthetic realism or things I've learned from the Buddha philosophies or things I use reading psychology books and things I've learned from reading, you know, so it's all the culmination of things of how to live a life at peace with yourself and not being letting things bother you. And so I think that's, know, and it has to do with realizing that.

Lauren Bernick (59:58.633)
that's good advice.

Joel Fuhrman (01:00:04.42)
You know, we don't have to feel like we're important and we don't have to have other people make us feel important. We don't have to try to act important. We only, it's all about our ability to care for the world outside ourselves and look for things to appreciate that are not us. And our own self -esteem is heightened by our ability to emote and care for things out in the outside world. That has nothing to do with us, nothing to do with own egos. Cause we're all equally powerful. We're all equally special.

Lauren Bernick (01:00:28.205)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (01:00:31.182)
And we all have the equal ability to care for the outside world and to care for people and care for the aesthetic structure of the world and care for nature and to care for beauty. So we all can appreciate the world around us equally. And it's not on our own money and our own power and our own individual qualities. We all have the ability to like the world and our ability to be emotionally healthy gives us the ability to feel more for and care and want to care for other people and help them. And that gives us a lot of personal pleasure.

Lauren Bernick (01:00:42.668)
You know, that's beautiful.

Joel Fuhrman (01:01:00.846)
and which can hold consistent through our lives as we lose our looks or we lose our, whatever happens to you, you can be consistently at peace with yourself because you feel good about yourself from the way you, from how you're seeing the outside world and your ability to interact with people with as every interaction being an opportunity to be useful to another person or have goodwill for them. And when you have that attitude, nothing can hurt you. Nobody can hurt you.

Lauren Bernick (01:01:01.058)
Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (01:01:26.766)
That's beautiful.

Joel Fuhrman (01:01:30.532)
and nobody can stress you out.

Lauren Bernick (01:01:33.304)
That's really good advice. That's some of the best I've heard. It's very similar to what John Mackey, the founder of Whole Foods said. He has that same philosophy. Very interesting. I was thinking you must be good friends because he gave a very kind of similar answer. He's also a beautiful soul. Same kind of, yeah, I could see how you two would be very good friends.

Joel Fuhrman (01:01:45.7)
This is a good scan, Brian.

Joel Fuhrman (01:01:53.136)
We've never discussed this in detail, but that's funny.

Lauren Bernick (01:02:03.096)
Today's his birthday. Not on the day this is gonna air, but the day that you and I are recording. Today is his birthday, actually. Yeah, go wish him a happy birthday when we get off the... Okay, what is, and I think your parents are still alive. What did you learn from watching your parents age? Are your parents still alive?

Joel Fuhrman (01:02:08.592)
Today is John's birthday. really? Thanks for the meal, then.

Joel Fuhrman (01:02:23.664)
My father passed away, but my mother's 96, and she's still alive.

Lauren Bernick (01:02:25.719)
I'm sorry.

What did you learn from watching them age?

Joel Fuhrman (01:02:32.878)
Well, you know, I don't forget I've watched a lot of people age. No, you don't just, you know, but you learn that as people live longer and are in good health, they have to pay attention to their agility and their balance because they can still get more fragile with aging and fall down and hurt themselves easier. And we see that with elderly people. They've got to work on fitness and balance exercises and side to side movements.

Lauren Bernick (01:02:37.826)
That's true.

Lauren Bernick (01:02:54.616)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (01:03:02.722)
And living in a way that protects themselves against falls is very critically important as we're living a long time.

Lauren Bernick (01:03:10.094)
Strength, training, and balance. Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (01:03:11.706)
Strakes training, side to side movements, balance exercises, all those things are very important. And not having things you can trip over around you either, being aware that you're at a high trip risk as you get into your 90s.

Lauren Bernick (01:03:16.91)
Okay, that's good.

Lauren Bernick (01:03:21.143)
Yes.

Lauren Bernick (01:03:25.57)
Yeah, okay. Do you have a favorite health or beauty product?

Joel Fuhrman (01:03:32.11)
Hmm. A water pick?

Lauren Bernick (01:03:37.515)
That is good. Do you still floss or you just use the water pick?

Joel Fuhrman (01:03:38.19)
Yeah, what else?

Joel Fuhrman (01:03:45.218)
I floss, use the water pick more regularly.

Lauren Bernick (01:03:48.91)
That's a good one.

Joel Fuhrman (01:03:50.212)
What else? Yeah, and using, making compost to grow your own food and using sprouters and making sprouts and using, you I also buy this bacteria that you put in your dirt so it's the compost decomposes faster. So I use these powders that you put on the dirt when you put your kitchen scraps and your weeds and your, you know, mulch into a big mix.

with some dirt or whatever you're putting in there, you throw this type of powder on top that makes it decompose into compost faster, the bacteria that helps it decompose. And that makes it heat up and you have to check with a compost thermometer to check that the temperature goes down before you put the red wiggler worms on to form the great soil that you use around your trees. And I dig holes around my trees, my fruit trees, like donut holes and put the good soil around them. I make my own fertilizer. I make my own compost.

Lauren Bernick (01:04:44.652)
Yeah.

Joel Fuhrman (01:04:48.122)
But you need that powder to help the food scraps and the weeds decompose faster.

Lauren Bernick (01:04:52.354)
The bacteria. Okay, that's a very strange health and beauty product, but I guess that does help you be beautiful from the inside out to eat your vegetables with all those good nutrients.

Joel Fuhrman (01:05:02.052)
There's something beautiful about growing your own food. totally... When you grow like, look this beautiful peach from my own tree. You know what I mean?

Lauren Bernick (01:05:04.302)
It is. totally. It just makes you so excited when you eat your food that you've grown.

Lauren Bernick (01:05:14.526)
It's, it's fast. It's wildly exciting. Well, Dr. Furman, I can't thank you enough. I've so enjoyed our conversation. You are absolutely just a beautiful person inside and out. And I appreciate your time and your knowledge.

Joel Fuhrman (01:05:33.178)
Thank you so much and good luck to you and all your listeners.