Chef AJ - Lasting Weight Loss Through Calorie Density

If you think you know Chef AJ, buckle up. She talks about her traumatic childhood that resulted in her living with her aunt who was a Cordon Bleu chef. That aunt changed the trajectory of her life. She journeyed from being food addicted, obese, anorexic, and sugar addicted, to finding a sustainable way to maintain a healthy weight through the principles of calorie density. She explains how food affects weight, health, and aging. She shares the story of her sugar addiction and how someone told her that she was compensating for the lack of sweetness in her life by eating so much sugar. At the time, she thought he was crazy; but he was spot on. Chef AJ’s latest cookbook, Sweet Indulgence, offers a collection of delicious and healthy dessert recipes that are vegan, gluten-free, and sugar-free.

 https://sweetindulgence.chefaj.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@CHEFAJ/videos

 
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Transcript

Abby J or Chef AJ as she's known has been devoted to a plant exclusive diet for nearly 50 years. She was the host of the television series, Healthy Living with Chef AJ, which aired on Foodie TV. A chef, culinary instructor and professional speaker, she is the author of three bestselling books.

The Secrets to Ultimate Weight Loss, A Revolutionary Approach to Conquer Cravings, Overcome Food Addiction, and Lose Weight Without Going Hungry, Own Your Health, and the 10th Anniversary Edition of Unprocessed, and the soon -to -be -released fourth book, a cookbook entirely devoted to desserts called Sweet Indulgence. All of her books have received glowing endorsements by many luminaries in the plant -based movement.

Chef AJ's culinary career started at age seven when she received an easy bake oven for Hanukkah. She moved on to be the executive pastry chef at Sante restaurant in Los Angeles, where she was famous for her vegan, sugar, oil, salt, and gluten -free desserts, which used the fruit, the whole fruit, and nothing but the fruit. She broadcasts Chef AJ live on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and X Daily. She is the creator of the Ultimate Weight Loss Program.

which has helped hundreds of people achieve the health and body that they deserve and is proud to say that her IQ is higher than her cholesterol. In 2018, she was inducted into the Vegetarian Hall of Fame. I am proud to say that this badass mother is my good friend. Please welcome Chef AJ.

CHEF AJ (10:43.41)
Thank you, Lauren.

Lauren Bernick (10:46.254)
Thank you.

CHEF AJ (10:47.536)
Yeah, and now the roles reverse because I've been interviewing you for years monthly on Chef AJ Live, Plant -based Classics, and now you're going to actually make me talk today.

Lauren Bernick (10:57.33)
I I was thinking about that. was like, I don't think she's going to relinquish control very easily. I'm waiting for you to start interviewing me.

CHEF AJ (11:05.892)
No, I just I like interview. I don't I don't love doing interviews. love interviewing people. But I you know, when you think about all the great interviewers, Barbara Walters, Oprah Winfrey, do they get interviewed very much? Not really. Larry King.

Lauren Bernick (11:18.574)
I I think that they, want to interview them all the time, but yeah, they just probably don't do it. But yes, well, you are one of the greats. well, so you are a plant -based classic. So you've been plant -based for over 50 years, but not in a healthy way.

CHEF AJ (11:29.179)
thank you. Well, I am a plant -based classic. Yeah.

CHEF AJ (11:38.674)
Well, it's no, but it's okay. yeah, plant. That's why I don't like the word plant based really, because you could, you could eat 51 % of your calories from plants and 49 % from animal products or processed food. And you could technically still be plant based. I always preferred the term plant exclusive. I like the, I like vegan, but the thing about vegan is it doesn't really say what you eat. says what you don't eat, right? Animal products.

Lauren Bernick (11:55.681)
Mm -hmm.

CHEF AJ (12:04.306)
You know, have been, it'll be, September 1st it'll be 47 years, but I like to say almost 50, because that sounds awesome.

Lauren Bernick (12:12.398)
Yeah, that is awesome. 50 years, that's crazy.

CHEF AJ (12:14.258)
Yeah, but 26 of them were not a healthy vegan. They were a vegetarian, as people say. So yeah, I can't wait till it's 52 years and then it'll be half healthy and half unhealthy. Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (12:26.382)
That's crazy, that's crazy. Okay, wait, I wanna stop a minute. Can you put that lavalier mic on? Because it's picking up other things in the room.

I'm gonna edit that part

We'll edit this

CHEF AJ (12:52.242)
Charles, I can't put anything on. How's that? It's messing up the t -shirt, but okay. All right.

Lauren Bernick (12:56.782)
Yeah, I think that's better. Messing up the t -shirt. Okay, good. All right. Okay, so you have been plant exclusive for 40 something years. You know, the thing about you and I was rereading unprocessed, your story in unprocessed and you you're so upbeat and phenomenal and I forget.

forget, you really had some tough times. Like you had, you, you got off to a rough start in life. You had some, can you, I mean, tell a little bit about, you know, your early life. It's a little depressing, but it also brings us to where you

CHEF AJ (13:28.824)
I did, I did.

That's so depressing, but yeah, yeah, it's sad. Yeah, yeah, so I don't know. know, had a, my father was kicked in the head by a horse and I say that because I think that accounted for a lot of his violent behavior. He, you know, I didn't know him before that incident. So I can't really vouch for what he was like, but when I talked to neurologist today, you know, he didn't have brain scans or MRIs.

They said that, you know, that kind of injury, it was visible too, because he had this big gash in his head like Frankenstein. it wasn't just like a little kick. It was like he was really kicked in the head by a horse. They said that can make a person, you know, violent. And so, you know, I think part of it, maybe he had a disagreeable personality to begin with and it just intensified it. So yeah, there was a lot of, you know, violence in the first 11 years of my life. And I really never disclose it in my books. I mean, I kind of give.

what Glenn Merzer says, the Disney version of my childhood, because it's not my job to depress the reader. I I do talk about it to people if I feel it would help them. But mainly, was just that you can still have a rough start in life. You can have a rough life and still succeed in certain areas and maybe in all areas. But the reason I did that specifically for my weight loss book is after working with so many people on weight loss,

A lot of them have had trauma and negative experiences, but so have people that don't have weight problems. That's what people don't seem to understand. And it was pointed out to me by Dr. Doug Lyle that there are actually more overweight men in the world statistically than women, and they have not necessarily had trauma. And so I'm not diminishing trauma in any way. think people should get trauma therapy if they are suffering from past trauma. But that's not the reason you are overweight today for most people. has to do with

CHEF AJ (15:23.174)
The food. Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (15:25.132)
the food. But so when your dad left, you ended up living with some aunts, your mom had to go to work. And so that part, tell tell about that part a little

CHEF AJ (15:30.032)
Yeah, yeah, that

CHEF AJ (15:34.514)
Yeah, that was a happy ending actually until my mom came and took me back. No, I'm just kidding. So I was very blessed. know, the thing is, is you don't always know at 11 years old that what is happening is the best for you because even though it was a horrible childhood, you still don't want to leave your parents because it's scary, you know, flying halfway across the country to live with an aunt and uncle, even though they were my favorite aunt and uncle, you know, it was scary. And my aunt was amazing.

was born and raised in Switzerland. And she was the most loving, kind person I had ever met. And we lived with her, my uncle, my two boy cousins that were a little bit older than me. And they were just, they were like, you know, more like brothers to me than my brothers who, you know, because when there's trauma and abuse in a family, sometimes the siblings can really bind together and love and support each other. And sometimes they all forgo to their separate corners of the world. And that's kind of what happened in my family. So having my boy cousins, Phil and Paul.

That was a wonderful experience because they, I mean, they were jokesters. I mean, they would tease me, but it was nothing like the childhood that I had had in Chicago. But what was the coolest thing about living there, one of the coolest things is my aunt's mother, her name was Blanche, but they called her Mamie. think maybe that was, they spoke French in the house, you know, so I had to learn French pretty quick to keep up. And she was a Cordon Bleu chef. She had a five -star restaurant in Switzerland.

And so she did all the cooking in the family because my uncle was a medical doctor and he worked and my aunt was raising the kids. And so May May made every single meal and every meal it was like literally eating at a French restaurant every single night. There was no recipes. May May didn't speak English so I couldn't really say, what are you doing? How are you doing it? But I could watch and she would go to like, I don't know if they had farmers market in 1971 like they have now, like, you know, where you can go buy stuff but she would go to the most.

the best store that we had in that area, which was called Gelson's. There are still a few left in Southern California. She would buy the ingredients, like leeks, and she would just make, without recipes, just amazing meals that most people don't eat in their whole life, but especially when you're 11. Like leeks with, I can't even, like these sauces, and things with Gruyere cheese and fondues.

CHEF AJ (17:51.538)
Soufflé au Grand Magnet and Negros en Chemise. the food was probably pretty high in fat. It wasn't vegan. But, I mean, it was amazing. What was interesting is my aunt was never overweight and neither was her mother. Yet, they were able to eat this rich food because they weren't eating processed food. That was one thing I noticed. I mean, they did have it in the house for their boys. was Nestle Crunch in the pantry and there were cereals.

They did not eat any processed food, my aunt. What was interesting is they had the salad after the meal. And that was, I guess, a palate cleanser, which is real interesting because, you know, if you're teaching people calorie density, you want to have the salad first to kind of fill up. But my aunt made the best salad dressing and I never could get the recipe from her, not because she wouldn't give it, because that whole family cooked without recipe. She just took the vinegar, took the oil.

took this, I mean, that's how they all cooked. And that's kind of how I like to cook today. That's how I prefer to cook. But you know, people always want exact recipes. And I'm like, no, just learn that way. It's so much better. Because then you don't have to worry if you don't have enough of the ingredients. Just I don't know the word for cooking like that, maybe improvisational. But that was the best. You know, so I could see her like, you know, making like, she would make like a pear galette. And you know, she would use, you know, real butter, not this fake, you know,

margarine or oil, but she did use real butter. But she could just craft things. To me, it was the funnest thing in the world. We didn't have food TV back then, but it was sort of like watching it. I think if I have good qualities for that, I think it's because they were instilled in me by my aunt.

I love my Aunt Ramon just more than anyone. Her name was like, it was like Raymond with an E, because I guess maybe they wanted a boy, so I called Ramon. I don't have a very good French accent. But I remember I was giving a eulogy at her funeral, and she told me this story once that I never forgot. And it's a true story, because she worked for the Red Cross during World War II. And she told me about how there was a bridge between, there was, guess, there was a German park

CHEF AJ (20:06.61)
Germany was Swiss. I'm not a history buff, but I'm pretty sure that Switzerland was neutral during World War Two and Germany was Nazi Germany and you know, were they weren't I guess an ally of the United States. But I guess there was a bridge somewhere in Switzerland that was right by the border of Germany. But I guess it was like a footbridge and it was connected. But because it was the war, they were still guarding their side of the bridge, even though the Swiss weren't in the war, they still

you know, were guarding their side of the bridge and the German soldiers were guarding their side of the bridge. And my aunt told me that one day the Germans took a pile of horse manure and left it on the Swiss side of the bridge with a note that said, this is for the Swiss. Because I guess in Switzerland, some people spoke French and German. So I don't know what language the sign was in, but a big pile of horse doo -doo with a sign that said, this is for the Swiss.

And so the Swiss, what they did, my aunt said, is they cleaned it up. And then the next day, they left an equal amount pile of butter on the German side with a sign that read, during the war, each country must give the best that it can. And so, and I thought about that because that's what my, mean, I don't think my aunt had an enemy in the world. I don't think there was anyone who disliked her. Even my father, who hated everyone, could not think of

unkind thing to say about my aunt. Like he just like, she goes, well, she smokes. Okay. That's not her personality. That was her. They all smoked, you know, back then anyway, you know, my uncle smoked too. So did he and so did my mom, but she was like that. And she was so like, you know, the lesson is, you know, like when life gives you lemons, make lemonade, but you know, if people give you shit, just give them butter. Yep. Or maybe maybe Miyoko's vegan creamery butter.

Lauren Bernick (21:54.328)
Give him butter.

Lauren Bernick (21:58.37)
That's right. I know, but

CHEF AJ (21:58.918)
But yeah, so that story really stuck with me in life because sometimes as you know, like when you're on social media, people can be really mean and so I just think of my aunt, what would she do?

Lauren Bernick (22:09.43)
Yeah, I like that story. I like how they handled that. So, you know, it's, I don't even know. You had so many things go on. You had bad food addiction. I guess that started after when your mom came and picked you back up. Is that right?

CHEF AJ (22:23.602)
No, you know, I think it started when I was little. I mean, you know, now that I know more about this, and there people that still don't believe food addiction is a disease, and I think it's because it's a terrible name. think it should be it should be refined food addiction, not even processed food addiction, because the problem with the word processed is humus is processed. So should we not eat humus? know, you know, when we you know, so refine is, it's what they call an ultra processed food addiction now.

Lauren Bernick (22:33.759)
for sure.

CHEF AJ (22:49.596)
I'm learning from experts that are not in the plant -based space like Dr. Nicole Avina and Dr. Joan Ifland that what your mother ate while she was pregnant with you can have a profound effect on your food preferences and addictions today. I always joke that my mom must have just been eating &Ms with peanuts her whole pregnancy. I just remember as a young child, at the age of four, I remember we had in Chicago this cabinet, but I couldn't reach

Lauren Bernick (23:02.665)
dang.

CHEF AJ (23:16.54)
So I'd have to climb up on the stove to get to this cabinet. And that's where all the stuff was. And we had like every kind of cereal. Cereal was so popular in the 60s, know, with, you know, Froot Loops, Fruity Pebbles, Cocoa Pebbles, Count Chocula, Blueberry, all that stuff, know, Lucky Charms. We, that's what we had. We had all of them. And like to eat something like just, even like, if I were to eat life cereal today, I would say this is really sweet. But like life cereal was like, my God, you know, who would eat life cereal? You know, you want all the stuff with

Lauren Bernick (23:43.47)
That's healthy.

CHEF AJ (23:44.05)
Right, with the crunch berries and stuff. So when you think about it, when you're eating that, and I read somewhere that most Americans eat something like, that 67 % of Americans eat box cereal for breakfast, those kind of cereals, that's basically dessert. So if you start, you know, I'm not talking about oatmeal, or even oatmeal with some brown sugar sprinkled on top of fruit, I'm talking about these box cereals, that it's basically eating, you know, flour and sugar and salt for dessert, it's eating breakfast for dessert. And that's what I think a lot of Americans do.

We would have that kind of stuff for breakfast. And it wasn't that my mom was trying to be unhealthy. That's what people ate. Because after World War II, it was like, wow, this is so great. It's so convenient. Swanson TV dinner. They had all kinds of stuff. Tangs, space food sticks, all these kind of things. So that's what people were feeding their kids. And my mom, my dinners were like, we didn't eat frozen food or whatever for dinner, but breakfast was very much like that.

Lauren Bernick (24:20.477)
yeah.

CHEF AJ (24:40.09)
except on the weekends she would make pancakes or waffles. And when she made them, she would put chocolate chips in them. And that was like so good. We were kosher, so we didn't have milk chocolate, but we'd have dark chocolate or semi -sweet. And in every square of the waffle, she would do frozen waffles. I don't remember the brand back then. There would be like a chocolate chip and it would melt. And then there would be the margarine and the maple syrup. so things were rich. And I don't know why I was drinking coffee at the age of four, to be honest.

Lauren Bernick (25:09.558)
yeah, we did it at our house too. My dad used to put it in the bottles. I don't know what happened back then.

CHEF AJ (25:09.786)
Like, mean, it's like, isn't that, I mean, it's hilarious to me when I think about it because I was drinking, you know, I could never drink black coffee, even when I drank coffee, even when I drank coffee without sugar, I had to have some kind of whitener in it, whether it was, you milk or, you know, when I was not vegan or non -dairy milk when I was, but I would drink like coffee with cream and sugar, a lot of sugar, like, I don't know, I guess my mom gave me a sip, I liked it and.

she let me have it I'm thinking like that is like not an appropriate food for a four year old, but I drank coffee till I was, believe. Gosh, when did I stop? think it was when I was 19, I think I got an ulcer in college and then I had to stop caffeine. But it's hard to stop caffeine. mean, think about it, but yeah. So again, food addiction is still not recognized.

Lauren Bernick (25:59.104)
yeah.

CHEF AJ (26:04.914)
by a lot of medical professionals, but I didn't even hear about it until really maybe when I was in my 50s. And it wasn't in the plant -based space at all. I think if I have anything to say about my contribution to this, I don't want to say I'm the only one, but I'm one of the first people that brought this conversation up. mean, Dr. Goldhammer and Dr. Lyle talked about it in the pleasure trap, but they weren't overweight or trying to help people understand this in the same way that I was.

People like Dr. Frank Sabatino has talked about food addiction, Dr. Stefan Esser. It's mostly the SOS free people because the ones that still include the sugar and the salt and the flour just don't want to hear about it because they don't want to give up their sugar, salt and flour and caffeine and alcohol, which are all addictive.

Lauren Bernick (26:45.9)
Yeah, and SOS, right, and for those who don't know, SOS is salt, oil, and sugar.

CHEF AJ (26:53.734)
Yeah, and I added the F and the A. So I made it sophist -free and alcohol because Dr. Goldhammer said, well, people should know that under sugar comes alcohol and flour, refined carbohydrates. I said, they don't. They're saying they're SOS -free as they drink their coffee and alcohol and eat their bread. So again, and it's not that these things are necessarily unhealthy and sometimes they can be eaten away that's not even calorically dense, but for people that suffer from refined food addiction,

Lauren Bernick (26:57.474)
flower and an alcohol.

CHEF AJ (27:19.45)
extra sensitivity to the refined carbohydrates like sugar, flour, alcohol, and even drugs like caffeine. I mean, if you're okay with your diet and your health and your level of cravings, if you have any, then don't change your diet for me. It's not a court -ordered thing, but I have seen people who have suffered tremendously when they give up these addictive substances. For them, they thrive.

Lauren Bernick (27:42.722)
Yeah, I want to talk more about that in a minute, but I just want to go back and kind of like build your story because I know you were anorexic and then you went from anorexic to obese. Can you

CHEF AJ (27:53.35)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's so funny. Well, I I was obese to anorexic, obese anorexic bulimic obese to slender. And it's funny, Lauren, because people always are saying, she's anorexic. Now, if people I mean, I am very thin. I am very thin. And mostly, yeah, well, the thing is, is I'm very, here's the thing, people see me from the waist up, and I don't have any muscles. And that's true. And that's my own fault, because I didn't need to do that. And I always make the excuses because I do have a rotator cuff

Lauren Bernick (28:08.044)
because you're very thin, but you know, but you're, yeah. You're at a good.

CHEF AJ (28:25.38)
impingement in the other shoulder and I forget what I have on my thumb, the trigger thing. So lifting is hard for me. But when you see my whole body and you see how huge my legs are, when I say huge, huge meaning muscular, no, you haven't seen them, right, but you haven't seen my legs when I'm wearing shorts. very, very, I mean, my gastrocnemius, my soleus muscles, my quadriceps, very, very muscular from the kind of exercise that I do do, which is vigorous spinning.

Lauren Bernick (28:37.011)
I was gonna say your legs are not huge. You're a tiny person.

Lauren Bernick (28:44.544)
Okay, they're muscular.

CHEF AJ (28:53.616)
and a lot of walking. So when you see the whole thing, I don't walk down the street and people are like, my God, you know, she's so thin. I just eat in accordance with the principles of calorie density now. And as long as I do, I can easily maintain this weight. But the thing that people don't realize is I eat so much. And if I was anorexic, my God, I eat pounds and pounds of potatoes and rice and vegetables and fruit. And yeah, so it's kind of fun. I mean, I never thought like you could have it both ways, be slender and eat a

Lauren Bernick (29:09.518)
And I've seen you eat, you eat a lot.

CHEF AJ (29:23.398)
But once I learned calorie density, really the oil is the big thing, oil and the nuts, when you don't eat a lot of fat, you can eat a lot of food and be slender. Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (29:24.13)
Yes.

Lauren Bernick (29:31.756)
Yes, yes, absolutely. I found that myself and I always struggled with my weight until I started doing a whole food plant -based diet without oil and that was the thing that I just loved. Okay, so you went from obese to anorexic to obese, blah, blah. So what was like the rock bottom and then how did you pull yourself out of

CHEF AJ (29:56.434)
Hmm. Well, there was a lot of rock bottoms. I'll talk about my rock bottom with my weight though. It really wasn't, you I just assumed that, I mean, well, first of all, it is genetic. How heavy or lean you are on any given diet, that is genetic. And it's like Dr. Lyle talks about how 80 % of your weight is heritable, but it's the other 20 % that we have control over diet, our lifestyle, whether we exercise or not, those kinds of things.

Because everybody in my family was obese or morbidly obese, I just thought I was doing pretty good only weighing about 180 pounds at five foot six instead of weighing more than two or 300 like other people in my family of similar heights. I just accepted that this is my lot in life, that this was my set point because no matter what I did, my weight would always come back to at least 160, 165. I kind of gave up that I would

be slender without having to use drugs like FenFen, which was the ozempic of my day, or not eating at all, which was what I did in my teens, which I don't recommend. And then what happened is shortly before my, I think it was my 50th birthday, I fell. I slipped in an office building and it was caught on camera. was a person mopping, didn't put the sign, and I had this really horrific break in my left knee.

Lauren Bernick (30:59.522)
Mm -hmm.

CHEF AJ (31:21.662)
And so, of course, I went to the emergency room, it was a really, really bad break, and I was too fat for crutches. I just couldn't use them. I could not carry that much weight, and I couldn't use a walker. So, I had to be in a wheelchair for four months because I just didn't have the upper body strength and I had too much weight to do anything. And so, was just very, I don't like people taking care of me in that aspect.

Lauren Bernick (31:30.019)
Whoa.

CHEF AJ (31:49.266)
And I just didn't like that I couldn't take care of my own needs of what they call ADL, activities of daily living, my own going to the bathroom, showering. And I felt humiliated and embarrassed. And I said, okay, because I had heard from one of the orthopedic doctors said, hey, did you know that every pound you're overweight is like 10 pounds of pressure to your knee? Have you ever thought about losing weight? I felt like saying, no, I haven't. Really? But it did kind of stick with me when he said that because I didn't realize

that having this extra weight, wasn't just like a visual thing that I was disgusted with myself. It actually was impacting my ability to live my life and do my job. At the time, I was a pastry chef at a restaurant, a vegan pastry chef, which by the way, if you're a food addict, I don't recommend being in the baking business, but I didn't know about it quite back then. That's kind what happened.

I'm like, okay, well now I got to figure this out and I got to figure out a way that's sustainable because fen -phen is not sustainable, plus it was taken off the market by the FDA and OREXI is not sustainable. And so it was going to the True North Health Center in January of 2011 and meeting Dr. Lyle and Dr. Goldhammer that I finally understood what was sustainable, not just for optimal health, but for weight loss, which was calorie density. And by the way, I didn't invent calorie density.

I mean, Dr. Gene Ornish had written a book, a bestselling book in 1980, based in the principles of calorie density called Eat More, Weigh Less. And Dr. McDougall also had a bestselling book called The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss. And the thing is, is up until Audible, I never read a book. And so I had these books probably, but I didn't read it. But having Dr. Lyle and Dr. Goldham were there because they lectured there every week,

when it was explained to me kind of like in a classroom kind of fashion with a PowerPoint and the ability to ask questions, was like, know, like Oprah says, a light bulb moment. And it's like, wow, you really can't eat more and weigh less. And that's why people that really will commit to this and just put the nuts and the seeds and the avocado and the tofu and the oil aside just for like 30 days or even three weeks, I've never not seen it work. you know, people vary.

CHEF AJ (34:00.954)
in the sensitivity of their stretch receptors. know, satiety is based on a few things, calories, nutrients, and stretch. And so there are people like my husband, it's like that movie Life of Brian, he can eat like one little cookie, I'm so full. And there's people like me, and you know who you are, that need more gas in the tank just to activate our stretch receptors. I think it's genetic and maybe a discordant history of dieting might have played a factor, but I do think it's largely genetic.

Lauren Bernick (34:20.898)
Me too, yeah.

CHEF AJ (34:28.592)
And so I can't weigh and measure my food and eat skimpy little portions. I need a lot of food. So like my lunch is always like, I don't know, like two and a half pounds. They say that most people, Barbara Rolls, who's done the most research in calorie density at Penn State University, where she studies human eating behavior in her lab, she says most humans, adult humans for sure, eat about three to five pounds of food a day. And so some people are on the lower lens, some on the higher end. And so I need more volume in order to feel full.

And so this is what's so great to me is that, you know, I can eat big volumes of food and maintain a slender weight. Whereas before I was eating very calorically dense food and not really eating that much food, which means I not only was overweight, but I was also hungry because I wasn't eating enough food.

Lauren Bernick (34:58.082)
Mm -hmm.

Lauren Bernick (35:13.28)
Yeah. Well, can you explain that a little bit? first of all, calorie density and that kind of thing. just explain the theory of that. But also, we're talking about a whole food plant -based diet. So if people don't know that it's legumes, so beans, peas, lentils, whole grains like brown rice and oats and quinoa, things like that, fruits, vegetables.

CHEF AJ (35:35.674)
huh.

CHEF AJ (35:41.756)
Vegetables, Nut seeds, yeah, sure.

Lauren Bernick (35:43.316)
a little bit of nuts, a little bit of seeds, okay, and no oil. But so explain about calorie density a little bit, if you

CHEF AJ (35:50.258)
So, yeah, there's a book called Value Metrics that Dr. Barbara Rolls wrote, and that is when I finally started understanding it. It's funny because I paid a dollar for the book. was at one of those used bookstores. And boy, did that change my life because she had photos in the book, and I can learn better when I see. That's why I love these. That's why probably I learned calorie density better at True North because they were doing PowerPoints, and it's like, here's a picture. And she had pictures in her book. And for

She said for the same amount of calories and a quarter cup of raisins, you could have two cups of grapes. What is gonna fill you up more? And she had a lot of these kind of comparisons in her book. So calorie density, which actually the doctors often call it energy density. It's the same thing. It simply means calories.

per pound of food. People say, well, I don't eat a pound of food. Well, of course you do. You eat several pounds of food a day. You may not eat a pound of a given food at a time, although I do. I easily eat a pound of potatoes every serving and a pound of fruit when I eat fruit or a pound of vegetables. people need to understand that food varies in calorie density, calories per pound, from about 100 calories per pound on the low end, which are vegetables, non -starchy vegetables.

and 4 ,000 calories per pound on the high end, which is oil, all oil, whether it's flax, avocado, olive oil, coconut oil. And so there's a 40 -fold difference in the calorie density of food. And if people are wanting to lose weight, if they simply change the average calorie density of the foods they're eating to what I call foods to the left of the red line, fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, they can

twice as much food and taking half as many calories. The problem is most Americans eat what I call to the right of the red line. They're eating animal products. They're eating processed sugar, processed flour, oils, and that's the problem. Now, the thing is, it's not that you can never have nuts and seeds or avocado. I eat avocado. I eat some seeds. I try not to eat nuts very often, but you just have to be mindful of their caloric density because they're about 3 ,000 calories per pound for the nuts and seeds.

CHEF AJ (37:57.138)
for 300 calories per pound, I could have a pound of oatmeal, right? So you don't have to memorize how many calories in a cup of blueberries or half a cup of rice, like Weight Watchers would have you do. You just have to know. Vegetables are about 100 calories per pound. Fruits, about 200 to 300 calories per pound. Oatmeal and things like potatoes and sweet potatoes, they're about 300 to 400 calories per pound. Whole grains, about 500 calories per pound. And legumes, beans, lapis, lentils.

550 to 600 calories per pound and the winter squashes are actually only about 200 calories per pound and so if you Concentrate on getting most of your calories from these foods. You can eat what's called ad libitum That doesn't mean you can't have a slice of avocado on your salad or you know a quarter of an avocado or an ounce of nuts It's just you've got to be mindful of the varying caloric densities also when it comes to processed foods like sugar like flour like oil there's no there's no fiber and you

People always worry about where vegans are going to get their protein. I wonder where everybody else in the world is getting their fiber because most people in the world don't get enough fiber. The thing about fiber, it's not just enormously helpful for so many things. It flushes toxins and waste out of the body. It binds to cholesterol. Where weight loss and satiety is concerned, fiber is the key to the kingdom because it's what makes you feel full.

virtually no calories. And when you have fiber in food plus water in food, fiber and water together create bulk and that's what creates satiety. So, like, you could have dried fruit and it still has fiber but it has no water, you know? And you could have, like, juice and it has water but it has no fiber. So you want to not only just eat whole food but you want to eat it its whole food form so that every bite that goes in your mouth has the fiber and water intact. calorie density

will help you do that because water dilutes the overall caloric density of the food and so does fiber. And you can't just eat a bunch of peanuts and then drink water. It's not how it works. You have to have the water in the food as nature intended. That's why soups can be so helpful for both satiety and weight loss. And by soups, mean vegetable or bean -based soups, not like New England clam chowder.

Lauren Bernick (40:11.79)
Right. Like tomato soup with cream. Yeah. Like your aunt probably made. that's right. But okay. So that's really in a nutshell. when you were saying to the left and to the right of the red line, just so people understand, you have a chart and on the left side is all the things that you can

CHEF AJ (40:15.588)
Right. Yep, absolutely.

Lauren Bernick (40:37.902)
pretty freely. That's why you were saying to the left of the red line, the legumes, the whole grains, the fruits and vegetables, and then a red line. then to the right of that, you have the things like the nuts and the seeds and the avocado and the oil and things that you wouldn't eat so freely. So that's kind of how I guess you got yourself under control because you had quite, you know, like I said, we were talking about, I know you don't want to kind of dwell on the bad part of your life, but I mean, you,

CHEF AJ (40:40.55)
Yeah. Right.

CHEF AJ (41:05.435)
Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (41:07.586)
But I think that it's helpful for people to understand, you know, that all the things that you went through because, I mean, is it okay if I talk a little bit more about that? Is that

CHEF AJ (41:16.1)
Yeah, no, that's fine, because my adult life was hard too. I I lost four babies. I mean, weren't fully, I mean, they weren't grown babies, but it's still devastating when you're right about to give birth and your baby dies. so to me, fetal loss is not, unless you have a corpse, then they say, it wasn't a baby. But the thing is, is when a baby dies inside of you like that, they can't always.

give it to you. I don't want to get graphic here with surgeries, but it's a little bit different what they have to do sometimes in emergency surgery situations to save the mother. so basically, I lost four children. And yeah, so that was really hard. And the thing is,

Lauren Bernick (41:44.077)
Yes.

Lauren Bernick (41:56.595)
Absolutely, you did. That's horrific.

CHEF AJ (41:59.46)
Yeah, the thing that was really hard is that, like I said, unless you have a funeral and a corpse, it's like, well, you know, it wasn't a real baby. But the minute you're pregnant, it's a real baby. So yeah, that's something that was really hard. I still, you I mean, I, you you do the best you can, you hopefully find the expert that can help you with that. So yeah, I mean, life is hard.

Lauren Bernick (42:08.96)
Of course.

Lauren Bernick (42:19.662)
I know one of your babies you named Rachel and you said that you really didn't grieve her until you gave up not only sugar but maple syrup and agave and then all of sudden you started, what was the connection to

CHEF AJ (42:35.44)
Yeah, well, yeah, I remember I remember when I was teaching at a cooking school in LA called Dick and Jane Cook Vegetarian. Thank you, Ryan Flegel for giving me my start even before Dr. McDougall as a culinary instructor. And so one of the teachers there and I can't even remember his name. I think he might have been the chef at the time at Real Food Daily. And so in the cooking classes, we would present

like an entree and then another course like a salad or soup and a dessert. That was kind of what the thing was. And I was a teacher there. So I went to his class and he was, I think it was a macrobiotic chef. And so his dessert was something called Canton, I think it was like Jell -O, right? And it's like, I'm like, Jell -O, what kind of like Jell -O? Jell -O isn't like, and I'm like, paid for that. That's not a dessert. And he was explaining, exactly. And he was explaining macrobiotic principles and not using sugar.

Lauren Bernick (43:20.622)
That's not a dessert. That's something you get in the hospital.

CHEF AJ (43:30.594)
And, you know, and he said something, he says, boy, you know, you know, I told him and he said, sounds to me like you're using sugar to compensate for the lack of sweetness in your life. And I just thought about that. And like, but then the more I thought about it, the more he was right. So I was using food, in general, sugar, sugary foods, and that is such a sugary foods, it's sugar fatty foods, because let's face

How many sugar addicts do you know that their only problem is like Jolly Ranchers or Twizzlers? It's always the sugar and the fat guys, let's be real. And to compensate for the lack of sweetness and like when, at the time he said that I kind of thought, a dope. And then, you know, after I gave up sugar, I'm like, boy, now what? That was not fun, you know? That was a bad week.

Lauren Bernick (44:01.139)
That's right.

Lauren Bernick (44:18.094)
But you said it helped you grieve after that. What was the tie -in to

CHEF AJ (44:20.336)
Yeah, because I had to feel my feelings because if you're using anything as a drug, it blocks your ability to feel your feelings deeply. And I think that's why so many people use food, alcohol, drugs, real drugs as drugs, over exercising, over working, because then it's running away from your feelings. So yeah, that was profound. I mean, when people say, well, I'm not an addict, whatever it is, I say, OK, well, just go without it for a week and then you tell

Yeah, because they can't. You can't. That's how you know you're an addict. A lot of addicts can't go without it one day or even one meal, whatever their drug of choice

Lauren Bernick (44:58.198)
Yeah.

Well, okay, so this brings me to, I wanna talk about your book that's coming out. it's coming out, I think this is gonna hopefully air August 22nd and your book comes out on the 27th. So if you are hearing this, you have to order this, pre -order this book, you'll get, what do you get when you pre -order this

CHEF AJ (45:21.328)
Yeah, well, I mean, I always say to people, if you're going to order it, please pre -order it. And the reason is, when in order to be what's called a New York Times bestseller, it's the pre -orders that count. Pre -orders are any orders that come in through a multiple of places such as Amazon, Barnes and Noble, small independent bookstores, and the first five days a book comes out. So if my book's coming out Tuesday, August 27th, midnight Pacific time on August 31st, any purchases after that will still

be nice, but they won't help me qualify to be a New York Times bestseller. And when a vegan or a plant -based book does well, I think the whole veganism movement does well because more publishers will be publishing more vegan books because they see that there is a market for it. And this book is not just a vegan book, although it is, it's a gluten -free book. It's a sugar -free book. Everything is sweetened with fruit. But to give people an extra incentive to please pre -order it, we've spent six months creating over $1 ,000 worth of virtual bonuses that if you buy your book from any of the places,

and to a special website, Chef, it's called Sweet Indulgence Book. Yeah. We will send you virtually a video of every single recipe in the book. And there's over 150 recipes and a few other bonuses too, like my Sweet Indulgence Masterclass that when people took it, it was, it's 18 hours of classes. It was, it sold for $497. Another class I did with Lissa Maris called Make It Raw, Make It Cooked, and the audio files of my last book

Lauren Bernick (46:25.122)
I'll put it in the notes, show notes.

Lauren Bernick (46:33.091)
Wow.

CHEF AJ (46:50.138)
unprocessed. it's the bonuses are worth more than the book and the book is beautiful. The photos by our mutual friend Hannah Kaminsky are just I mean that's why you know people want to kindle but it's like I almost wish we didn't have a kindle because it's because it's a coffee table book. It's this this book is art and just looking at it on your phone is not going to do these these photos justice.

Lauren Bernick (46:56.558)
That's gorgeous.

Lauren Bernick (47:02.666)
No, you have to have this book in the real

Lauren Bernick (47:12.704)
No, it's absolutely gorgeous. And so this is what I want people to understand about this book, is that, you know, you are a sugar addict, so you're not using sugar. These are desserts. These are gorgeous, fabulous desserts that you would bring to your friend's house and that you would, you don't have to say it's vegan, it's sugar -free. Nobody would know and everybody'd be like, this is the best dessert. And it's healthy for you. I mean, as far as desserts go,

CHEF AJ (47:31.93)
No, nobody would know.

Lauren Bernick (47:39.83)
What like, okay, I'm just going to name off a few of these things like cookies. have a cookie section, oatmeal raisins, snickerdoodles, thumb prints. have, I love thumb prints, cupcakes. have cinnamon bun cupcakes, peanut butter stuffed chocolate cupcakes with chocolate ganache. That's the cover. I know it's gorgeous.

CHEF AJ (47:48.378)
I love the thumbprint.

CHEF AJ (47:56.37)
That's the cover. That made the cover. Yeah. That's one of the more, most of the recipes are easy. That one is probably, I would say, the most difficult recipe in the book because you're going to need a pastry. You need to pipe it. got to actually know you could just plop it on top. But you know we did is like, I don't eat every single dessert recipe in that book. They're just too rich for me right now. But these are recipes that I created when I was the pastry chef many years ago at Sante restaurant.

Lauren Bernick (48:04.962)
Yeah, that one's a, but it looks gorgeous.

Lauren Bernick (48:12.279)
I

CHEF AJ (48:26.322)
We try to have something for everybody. In other words, have some of the, like people say, well, what if you're following Dr. Esselstyn? I would say that at least 75 % of the recipes in the book are low fat, the way I eat now. So if somebody was doing Esselstyn, Ornish, McDougall or Pritikin, you could have those recipes. But there are some low fat, low calorie density. Absolutely. And salt free and only two recipes with flour.

Lauren Bernick (48:43.02)
And those are very low -fat vegan. And everything is oil -free also.

CHEF AJ (48:52.29)
What we did, and this was the brilliant idea of Janine Elder, who has her own book called Potato Wisdom. And she designed the book so that there is a chart, or I should say a grid, in every single recipe, it's labeled with one, two, or three strawberries to indicate the level of, isn't that cool? Yeah, it's either subtly sweet, nice and sweet, or what's the third one? Subtly sweet. Yeah, exactly.

Lauren Bernick (48:53.672)
wow.

Lauren Bernick (49:10.732)
I see that. The sweetness. Yeah.

Lauren Bernick (49:18.732)
rich and decadent. I don't know. They're all, man, I'm just looking at these. These look so good. I'm sorry it's a podcast,

CHEF AJ (49:21.914)
And so, thank you. We do the same thing. Yeah, I know. We do the same thing with the level of fat, whether it's low fat, moderate fat, or rich and decadent. So that way you can pick and choose how much fat you want and how much sweetness you want. You for people that are really, really sugar addicts, right, there are some recipes in there. If you're just eating a standard American diet, you're probably not gonna like, I'm trying to think, one that's pretty low in fat, you know?

Lauren Bernick (49:38.42)
yeah. Yeah, here's the whole low fat.

CHEF AJ (49:49.382)
the apple pie rice pudding. It's not gonna be sweet enough for you, because there's not even dates in there. But like Lauren said, the cupcake on the cover, the German chocolate cake, the peanut butter chocolate cheesecake, these are really rich desserts that were served in a restaurant that wasn't even vegan. And I didn't tell them that I was not using refined sugar as a sweetener.

Lauren Bernick (49:56.826)
my god.

Lauren Bernick (50:07.478)
It's like I'm looking at this butterscotch pie right now. That looks, -huh, look at that. I mean, can I say like the crust is two cups of gluten -free rolled oats and it has cinnamon, vanilla bean powder, has pitted dates, and then butterscotch pudding that you give the recipe for and then you can top it with strawberries or raspberries. So that's like, you know, I mean, as far as things go, that's, it's food, exactly. my gosh.

CHEF AJ (50:10.266)
That's low calorie density. That's low calorie density, yeah.

CHEF AJ (50:22.364)
Dates. Yeah.

CHEF AJ (50:30.962)
It's like, it's actual food. Most of the recipes are actual food. Yeah. So flour and sugar aren't food, you

Lauren Bernick (50:37.706)
Right. I know. I hate that, but that's true. I don't want that to be true. I know, but

CHEF AJ (50:40.688)
Yeah. Well, I know. Well, you know, but here's the thing. That's the thing is like calorie density. That's why whether you've had trauma or not, calorie density is impersonal. It's basically just math. And what people need to know, and I think this will make them feel a lot better if they read a book like The Pleasure Trap, is that the fact that you seek the most calorically concentrated foods in your environment does not mean you're flawed in any way. It just means that you are just doing what you were genetically designed to do.

always seek the most concentrated source of calories in any environment you're in, whether it's your home or anywhere else. That's what our ancestors did to survive. And so, of course, we like sugar and flour because they're 1 ,800 and 1 ,500 calories per pound, whereas fruit and vegetables are one, two, and 300 calories per pound. But remember, sugar and flour did not exist in nature. Neither did oil throughout most of human history. the problem isn't us. It's the environment that we live in.

Lauren Bernick (51:11.169)
Exactly.

CHEF AJ (51:37.17)
If you go back to like, I forget, what are they called? There's a couple hunter -gatherer tribes left in the world. Is it the Hudson? I'm sorry, I can't remember the name. But anyway, they're not eating Snickers. They're not vegan, but they're not eating oil or sugar or flour or salt. They're eating actual food like our ancestors did. The good news is that you can learn to love whole natural food at a low caloric density if you are willing to abstain.

Lauren Bernick (51:46.155)
I'm not sure.

Lauren Bernick (51:50.251)
of course not. Right.

CHEF AJ (52:04.914)
from those higher caloric density pleasure trap foods for a while, but it's hard because for many people that means not going to restaurants because, know, good luck. I mean, you have Casa de Luz and we have a couple of vegan restaurants here that can do SOS free, but restaurants aren't interested in your health. And if you tell them no oil, they'll either laugh at you or just say it's not possible. And people don't realize the impact of just a little bit of oil, not just on their arterial health, but on their waistline. And I'll tell you, that's the biggest trip

tip or trick you can give for weight loss is whether you're vegan or not, just stop the oil. You don't need it. It doesn't make food taste better.

Lauren Bernick (52:42.668)
I know it, you know what, you get used to not eating oil and then it tastes terrible. like I went out, I went to Chinese last night and I just got steamed rice and steamed vegetables and you know, it was good. I mean, it's good to me just because I'm used to it. I know most people would be like, great. What do I need that for? But I liked

CHEF AJ (52:56.678)
Yeah, yeah. They're like, it's so boring. Hey, well, that's why California balsamic was created.

Lauren Bernick (53:04.672)
That's right. Exactly. Yeah. You just sprinkle a little that on there. It's delicious. I know. Well, so why do you think a whole, I mean, and you mentioned the pleasure trap. That's a great book if anybody wants to read that, but why, why do you think that a whole food plant -based diet helps you to age? Well, I mean, in addition to keeping your weight

CHEF AJ (53:09.074)
And then it's delicious. Yeah.

CHEF AJ (53:26.642)
Well, yeah, yeah. And you you got me thinking that you got to interview Dr. Goldhamer. He would be a fun, fun guest. And boy, he has aged amazing because he has been vegan longer than me, but he has been healthy vegan the whole time. don't think there's one wrinkle on his face anywhere. So I think, like I said, just whether it's your weight or how you wage, I think most of it is genetics. But the thing about the food you eat is it determines

Lauren Bernick (53:33.531)
I will.

Lauren Bernick (53:45.26)
Wow.

CHEF AJ (53:53.18)
how well you age. I don't think it necessarily determines how long you live necessarily, but it determines whether or not you age well or with debility, especially for things that are preventable, like many of these lifestyle diseases, like type two diabetes, like heart disease, like certain autoimmune conditions. And so I think that's where food really helps. But also other lifestyle behaviors too, like whether or not you exercise, whether or not you smoke, whether or not you drink alcohol.

People don't realize that these things can visibly age you. Not exercising can visibly age you. Smoking, if you have a smoking history or currently smoke, that visibly ages you. People think alcohol is just so great, but I used to be an activity director at a retirement home and some people drank and some people didn't. And I don't know, like the correlation between the drinkers and the wrinklers, that was pretty much the same. Yeah, that's what I saw.

Lauren Bernick (54:44.62)
Really? Really? That's interesting to know. The drinkers and the wrinklers. wow. Can you share your age with us?

CHEF AJ (54:49.914)
Yeah, the drinkers were the wrinklers, you know, so.

CHEF AJ (54:57.362)
Yeah, I'll be 65 at my next birthday and I cannot wait because I want Medicare so bad. My health insurance is so expensive. Yeah, yeah.

Lauren Bernick (55:02.604)
No kidding. it's so bad. What do you love about being this age?

CHEF AJ (55:08.056)
Ugh.

Lauren Bernick (55:11.724)
Okay, what do you don't love about being this?

CHEF AJ (55:12.306)
Yeah, okay, I guess what I love is that I don't have to go through those painful things that I love not having a menstrual cycle. I tell you that that's like great, but I didn't have one since I was 47. I love that I get in cheaper to the movies. That's good. What else?

Lauren Bernick (55:22.208)
Yeah?

CHEF AJ (55:36.166)
I, you know, not much. No, I'm kidding. I mean, I love it. that's funny. really, you know, my uncle who I lived with, with my Swiss aunt, he used to say, old is not for sissies. And I didn't really know what that meant when I was, you know, a teenager. And even my mom said getting old sucks. And I'm like, they wasn't really a context until you get older. That doesn't mean life can't be wonderful, but you you can't control things that

Lauren Bernick (55:38.456)
Hahaha!

Lauren Bernick (55:43.826)
gosh, you're hilarious.

CHEF AJ (56:06.118)
in your body. here's another tip. This is my best anti -aging tip for everyone. Yeah, stay out of the sun. Now, wait, let me clarify that. I don't mean that you shouldn't go outside and get your vitamin D, but protect yourself. the, know, cause there are people like, I get bashed all the time on other people's like social media and say how terrible I look, but I think my skin, I know it's, I think the skin on my face actually looks pretty good for my age. I mean, cause you can see the skin on my hands, they don't.

Lauren Bernick (56:11.519)
good.

Lauren Bernick (56:26.828)
What? my God, I think you look fabulous.

Yes. Okay, well we all have that, you know? I mean that's just...

CHEF AJ (56:36.242)
Right, but here's the thing. So I'm not saying that you should never go outside in your sun, but I mean, like when I look at people that are 10 years older than me that look amazing, like Victoria Moran, I said to her, she'd be a great one too for this topic. Yeah, well anyway, I remember her telling me she doesn't let the sun on her face. And I never thought anything about it, know, living in LA most of my life. But then when I moved to the

Lauren Bernick (56:47.83)
Yes. She's I did I interviewed her already. I'm getting at edited.

CHEF AJ (56:59.73)
I saw a dermatologist, because you sometimes just see one once a year, they send you a skin check, and he just basically read me the riot act. My skin was in really bad shape. I had these horrible spots all over. They ended up burning off. It were really painful.

And he basically said, because they see so much skin cancer there, he said, you cannot get your face in the sun like ever again. And I took that very seriously. This was before the pandemic. And I bought one of those full coverage hats that look like where all you can see is your eyes and you have sunglasses. And so I go outside every day. I walk my dog for at least an hour and it's sunny. I don't use sunscreen on my arms and legs, but my face has 70 sunscreen, a full coverage hat.

sunglasses. I have not knowingly let sun on my face now for almost six years. I think that ages you more than anything is sun.

Lauren Bernick (57:49.176)
That's amazing. absolutely. That's good advice. I've been putting sunblock on my hands for years and I think that's been really helpful. Yeah. What did you learn about aging from watching your parents age?

CHEF AJ (57:56.592)
Yeah, that's a good idea. should have done that,

CHEF AJ (58:08.178)
Hmm. Well, here's the other thing. They were so much older when I was born. My dad was 50. What did I learn? Well, it's funny because I don't even know what this word means, but everything that happened, my father would say, well, that's just the vagaries of old age. So I learned that basically you get old, you get sick, you die. Whereas other people

Lauren Bernick (58:15.864)
mean, this could be good or bad. I'm gonna guess it's gonna be bad. Or what you don't want to do.

CHEF AJ (58:36.146)
They do die, but they don't necessarily die of a long and lingering illness, the way my father did with heart disease or my mother did with dementia or my grandmother did with diabetes or my grandfather did with cancer. So I did not see people that were aging well, but they also weren't eating well.

Lauren Bernick (58:52.28)
Hmm. Right. Do you, I don't, I know you're not like a, I don't know. Do you ever go to concerts? Do you have a favorite concert that you ever went

CHEF AJ (59:00.526)
let me think about that. I like comedy shows better than coms. well, yeah, my God. Yes, so actually when I lived in the desert, I lived near Fantasy Springs. So I saw Bill Medley, I saw America, I saw Diana Krall, I saw Tony Bennett. I tend to like more my parents' music than my own. tend to like that kind of music. I'm not a like, I don't like loud blaring or like a rap. I like kind of smooth, I'm a smooth jazz. gosh, I wish I could see Gregory Porter in

Lauren Bernick (59:19.518)
Yeah!

CHEF AJ (59:28.914)
concert and people don't know about him he's like you've got to ask Alexa to play him this guy is like the most amazing jazz singer and apparently he's from Sacramento but I yeah so I like I just saw my god he was fantastic 90 years old Frankie Valli in the Four Seasons so he was he was amazing so yeah I do like that kind of stuff I just don't go often because you know it takes

Lauren Bernick (59:31.862)
I don't know who that is.

Lauren Bernick (59:46.526)
yeah, I'm gonna go see him I think, yeah.

good.

CHEF AJ (59:53.874)
It takes money and it takes effort and there's just, I don't love large crowds all the time, you know? Yeah, but if I had a wish, it would be like Disneyland would just open for me and a few friends. Like because I love Disneyland, but it's like the experience, it's just there's so many people. Wouldn't that be cool if like I had all this money and I could say, okay, just stay open for about eight hours. I'm just gonna have, yeah, I'm gonna have my closest like 99 friends.

Lauren Bernick (59:59.298)
That's what I thought about you. Yeah, I was thinking that. You probably wouldn't love

Lauren Bernick (01:00:18.03)
Just for me.

CHEF AJ (01:00:21.37)
and then not having to wait in line for the rides. Wouldn't that be so cool? Yep.

Lauren Bernick (01:00:26.136)
That'd be amazing. well, listen, I just thank you so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge and I'll put all the stuff that we talked about in the show notes and you're just, one of my favorite people. You know I just love you to death.


CHEF AJ (01:01:13.554)
Thank you, Lauren. And if you don't love dessert, get it for somebody who does.

Lauren Bernick (01:01:18.99)
that's a good idea. It'll be a, and that's another good idea. Perfect gift. Save it up for Christmas or Hanukkah or birthday. a, would make a really

CHEF AJ (01:01:25.658)
And if people buy more than one copy, know, people are saying, well, if I buy a copy from somebody else, can they have the virtual bonuses? Sure. You just have to give a different email with each receipt. But of course.

Lauren Bernick (01:01:36.426)
Okay, I'll put it all in the show notes. All right, well, you take care. All right, bye.

CHEF AJ (01:01:38.022)
Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Hey,