Dr. Michael Greger - How Not to Age

Michael Greger, M.D., FACLM, talks about his new book, How Not to Age: The Scientific Approach to Getting Healthier as You Get Older. Getting older does not have to mean getting sicker. There are eleven pathways for aging in our bodies' cells and we can avoid all of them.  Whether you're a long-time fan of Dr. Greger, or you've never heard of him; you won't want to miss this. We got a little personal with him and he was candid, open, and sassy!

His latest book, How Not to Age: The Scientific Approach to Getting Healthier as You Get Older. is Available now. https://nutritionfacts.org/book/how-not-to-age/

 https://nutritionfacts.org/

https://wellelephant.com/ ACE40 discount code for ACE Plant-based Eating Class

Lauren@wellelephant.com

Plant-powered weight loss with love https://dropitclub.cleanfooddirtygirl.com/badass

Transcript

Lisa Rice (02:22.663)
Okay, ready? Okay. Today's guest, Dr. Michael Greger, is a badass in the world of nutrition and lifestyle medicine. He is a physician and sought after speaker, has presented at the Conference on World Affairs and the World Bank, has testified before Congress, lectured at countless symposiums, and was invited as an expert witness in Oprah Winfrey's defense in the infamous meat defamation trial.

He is a graduate of Cornell and Tufts University School of Medicine and a founding member and fellow of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. An acclaimed author, his books How Not to Die, How Not to Die Cookbook, and How Not to Die It became instant New York Times bestsellers. More than a million copies of How Not to Die have been sold. Dr. Greger feels like an old friend. Both Lauren and I have referenced his videos regularly for years.

His research, knowledge, and humor have us addicted to his nonprofit portal nutritionfacts.org, which scours the scientific literature to cut through the hype to provide free, evidence-based, life-saving information for all. He is our go-to for anything regarding nutrition and health. If you geek out over health facts and the minutiae of nutrition like we do,

or simply want to show up at your holiday family gathering with hard data to defend your plant-based lifestyle, then Dr. Michael Greger is your man. His newest mind-blowing book is How Not to Age and certain to show us all how to age like a badass mother. Welcome Dr. Greger. We're honored to have you here.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (03:58.183)
I'm so excited to be here!

Lisa Rice (04:01.091)
Oh my gosh, this book is just 13,000 citations. Like I'm gonna be very old by the time, I'm gonna live to be over 100 by the time I absorb all the information in this book. That's, I texted her the other night on like a little light reading before bed.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (04:16.262)
What, a little, little light poolside beach reading? What's the problem?

Lauren Bernick (04:20.418)
That's what Lisa and I said, but we love this stuff.

Lisa Rice (04:27.227)
So there's so many like incredible takeaways from this book. And just in general, unless you're a jellyfish, we're all gonna die. But the goal is to die young as old as possible as you say. And that's precisely what this podcast is about. And it's not surprising that the 11 Pathways to Aging can be regulated by diet. So as we know from your other books, diet, exercise.

adequate sleep. I loved where you talked about how there's not enough time for you to sleep, which I thought was interesting because that's one of our questions. When do you sleep? And one of our favorites, of course, staying sexually active. So yeah, maybe we can start with, I'm sure you've practiced the quick synopsis of the anti-aging eight.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (05:19.922)
Sure, the anti-aging eight is kind of an actionable checklist to complement my daily dozen, specifying particular foods like nuts, greens, and berries that have the potential to offer some of the best opportunities to slow aging and improve longevity. Happy to go into any of them?

Lisa Rice (05:22.867)
Ha ha ha!

Lauren Bernick (05:40.878)
Can you just pick it off, the anti-aging aid?

Lisa Rice (05:41.071)
Yeah, well, yeah, well, the daily dozen is something that we definitely live by. I don't think there were really any surprises with the anti-aging aid, but Lauren and I were talking about, you know, confirmation bias and why is it that to this day, you know, we both work in the field. I'm a health coach and Lauren does coaching also.

And even with all this information and people like you sharing this incredible information and data and facts, they're still an obsession with not enough protein, fear of carbohydrates, soy is going to give me cancer. Can you, would you mind addressing that for our listeners? Because we, you know, our demographic, we definitely want to get that message across.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (06:30.626)
Yeah, that's one of the reasons that I wrote this book, is to really cut through the noise and nonsense. It reminded me, actually, of my last book on weight loss. Both dieting and anti-aging are multi-b...

billion-dollar industries, and with so much money in the mix, seeking even basic practical advice in either arena, living longer or lighter, is just faced with an inscrutable barrage of pills and potions. I mean, look, even as a physician, with the luxury of wading neck-deep through the medical literature, it has been a challenge to tease out facts from farce. And look, if it took me three years to sift through the science, then I'm afraid the casual observer would just have

you know, no chance. But of course the more difficult it was, the more valuable I knew it could be to people, and the good news is we have tremendous power over our health and destiny. Longevity, the vast majority of premature death and disability is preventable with a healthy enough diet and lifestyle.

Lisa Rice (07:32.888)
It seems so easy.

Lauren Bernick (07:33.014)
The healthy and... Just easy. But the health, okay, so let's talk about the diet and lifestyle for a minute. So maybe we don't have to weigh deep into every, you know, all eight and the daily dozen. People can kind of look that up for themselves. You've talked about it a lot. But there are some things that are standouts. Beans, nuts. Can you talk about the things that are the standouts, the leafy greens, the strawberries, mushrooms? I'm naming them.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (07:54.548)
Ah, I love it.

Lisa Rice (07:56.656)
Leafy greens.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (08:01.322)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of anti-aging foods, according to the Globe Burden of Disease study, the largest systemic analysis of risk factors in human history, the largest life expectancy gains will be made by eating more legumes, which are beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils. So if there's one thing…

we should boost in our diet its beans, or lentil soup, or hummus. This is presumed to be because they're the most concentrated source of prebiotics, like fiber and resistant starch, which feed the probiotic, good bacteria in our gut, like lactobacillus and acidophilus, to make beneficial postbiotics, like butyrate and acetate, which can reduce inflammation, boost immunity, and improve muscle strength in frail individuals. So legumes rule the roost on kind of a per-serving basis,

Nuts are actually associated with the lowest risk of premature death compared to any other food group, so I recommend a palm full of walnuts a day. Dark green leafies make it into my anti-aging eight, as the vegetable most associated with a longer lifespan. The nitrates in greens can improve age-related declines in muscle and artery function, slow our metabolic rate. And the sulforaphane in cruciferous vegetables like broccoli can improve immune function, boost the detox enzymes in our liver and airways. Berries are in their place.

It's the fruit most associated with a longer lifespan. I talked about the benefits of almond, which is dried Indian gooseberry powder.

and the bright, colorful anthocyanin pigments in berries, thought to account for their benefits for cognitive function, eyesight, inflammation, blood sugar, artery control, artery function, cholesterol, though they do get cleared from our bloodstream within about six hours, so I recommend dosing every meal with berries, so it makes a perfect dessert, or with hibiscus tea, which has those same kind of anthocyanins, or savory sources, such as purple cabbage or purple sweet potatoes.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (09:54.31)
And the rest of the anti-aging aid includes boosting levels of an enzyme cofactor called NAD, something called senal hormesis, microRNAs, chloric restriction, protein restriction, and methionine restriction, which is probably the most single, most important thing we can do. Yeah.

Lisa Rice (10:07.491)
I thought that was really interesting, the methionine restriction, because again, the obsession with protein, and if we're eating the right amount of calories, then we're not going to over consume the methionine, is something that you referenced in the book. But that, I thought it was interesting though, that a hormone, cancers that are more prone to hormones, even high amounts of plant based protein can be affect that.

Lauren Bernick (10:09.634)
protein.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (10:34.99)
Yeah, for IGF-1, so insulin like growth factor 1. If you have high enough protein intake, it doesn't matter whether it's plant or animal protein. Only at reasonable intakes do you actually get that plant-based benefit. Yeah, basically when it comes to protein and aging less, maybe more, reducing protein intake, meaning restricting protein intake down to recommended levels, is the only thing I could find that could actually help block all 11 of the aging pathways. Turns out there's no benefit for adding extra protein in the diets of older men and women in terms of muscle mass, muscle strength, or muscle performance.

Instead, the excess protein most Americans get causes a drop in the pro-longgevity hormone called FGF21, a drop in testosterone, a worsening of the age-accelerating enzyme mTORSO. We should strive to stick to the recommended 0.8 grams per healthy kilogram body weight, which comes out to be about 45 grams a day for the average height woman, 55 grams a day for the average height men, then reducing down to about 1 gram per kilogram after age 65.

Lauren Bernick (11:32.455)
Interesting.

Lisa Rice (11:32.475)
Yeah, you know, we just spoke to Dr. Clapper and he reiterated that very same thing about if you're getting enough calories, you're getting enough protein and there's no need to add protein as we get older. But I thought another interesting aging tip is the calorie restriction. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I think that's something that really intimidates people. And in my mind, it's even just a...

the minimal restriction of not eating after a certain time or eating before a certain time can be beneficial. Can you address that for the average person who maybe doesn't wanna do intermittent fasting?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (12:11.466)
Yeah, sure, a caloric restriction without malnutrition is one of the most powerful and non-pharmacological interventions for extending healthspan and lifespan across a number of species.

in part by boosting AMPK, which is an anti-aging pathway in autophagy, while reducing mTOR and IGF-1, this pro-aging enzyme and hormone. So simply reducing food intake can double or triple the lifespan of yeast, fruit flies, worms, prolong the average and maximum lifespan of rats and mice by up to 50%. But it's interesting, the lives of most animals are actually not prolonged by caloric restriction. Even the most strains of mice tested.

we do have the calorie study, the largest, longest running study, randomizing people to caloric restriction, and found that even a 12% drop in caloric intake can result in a variety of physiological, psychological, aging benefits. And so that's like 250 calories on a 2,000 calorie diet, so it's just like skipping a piece of pie or something every day. You can have all these benefits, though it's not clear whether the benefits are due to the loss of excess body fat and or the concurrent improvements

quality that they saw in that study. But we can calorie restrict simply by switching to healthier, less calorie-dense foods rather than eating smaller portions. So you actually eat more foods and get less calories by switching to healthy whole plant foods, which tend to be very calorically dilute. There we go! That's why whole food plant-based diets have been found to be the most powerful weight loss intervention ever documented

Lisa Rice (13:37.703)
a whole food plant-based diet. It's the food.

Lauren Bernick (13:41.661)
hehehehehe

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (13:50.264)
medical issue that didn't enforce exercise or portion restriction, nothing has worked better, 6 and 12 months, according to the Broad Study in New Zealand. And then, yeah, I can keep talking about caloric restriction.

Lisa Rice (14:00.719)
Well, simply put, you say fibers anti-inflammatory and saturated fat is pro-inflammatory.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (14:08.834)
Yes, indeed. So, inflammation is one of the aging pathways I talk about. Aging can be thought of as an inflammatory disease. Single blood tests for inflammatory markers, such as C-reactive protein, can predict physical and cognitive performance, as well as remaining lifespan in elderly individuals. Thankfully, excess inflammation can be extinguished through changes in diet, so that's eating lower on the dietary inflammatory index. And so, what does that mean?

avoiding pro-inflammatory food components, saturated fat, endotoxins, NU5GC, sodium, so minimizing your intake of meat, dairy, tropical oils, and salt. One lousy breakfast can double our C-reactive proteins within four hours before it's even lunchtime, and then go out of our way to eat foods that are anti-inflammatory, such as legumes, beans, greens, sodium-free tomato juice and tomato paste, oats, flaxseed, turmeric, ginger, garlic, cinnamon, cocoa powder, dill,

and other fiber-rich, anthocyanin-rich, and salicylic acid-rich foods. And I talk about all that in the information chapter.

Lisa Rice (15:16.795)
Yeah, it's all in the book and it's all just incredible information. Um, I found autophagy to be, uh, especially fascinating. And one of the things that you always say is that the body has this incredible capacity to heal itself. Would you say autophagy is a big part of that? I, can you explain that to people? What that means? Our body's ability to sort of clean house?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (15:39.97)
Yeah, it's kind of our internal housekeeping process, considered a primary system for cleaning the body from the inside out, clearing away accumulated cellular debris that may contribute to the aging process. And so there's some food components that suppress autophagy, like acrylamide, which is a toxin formed during the frying process, concentrated potato chips and french fries, whereas other food components like chlorogenic acid, the antioxidant coffee and spermidine,

help our cells take out the trash. So, to help boost this anti-aging pathway, I encourage readers to consider on a daily basis 60 minutes of moderate to vigorous aerobic activity, one needn't fast to boost autophagy, but rather go fast by exercising, though 20 minutes fails to move the needle, but 60 minutes of moderate intensity exercise, such as brisk walking does, minimizing your intake of French fries and potato chips, trying to get at least 20 milligrams of sperm needed a day by incorporating foods into your diet, such as tempeh,

mushrooms, peas, and wheat germ, as well as drinking three cups a day of regular or decaf coffee.

Lisa Rice (16:46.035)
Do you really walk 14 miles a day on your treadmill?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (16:48.974)
not when I'm on interviews that don't… I'm actually on my treadmill now, but I've got complaints that make people seasick. So, I would be walking right now.

Lisa Rice (16:56.347)
Oh, we wanted to do this on our stationary bikes, but we thought we might have a little trouble focusing. We thought for sure you'd be on the treadmill.

Lauren Bernick (16:56.398)
So we wouldn't bother us. That's it.

Lauren Bernick (17:03.17)
with their life.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:04.238)
No, I wish I am on the treadmill, but I got it stopped. All right, that's it. We're doing it.

Lauren Bernick (17:06.146)
You can do it. It's not going to bother us. But I have a question. That's it. Oh, here he goes. You guys, I know you can't see this, but he's starting to walk. This man, Dr. Greger, walks 14 miles a day at a very slow pace. Just on, you know, while he's interviewing, while he's working. You can't see it, but he's going to start right here. Are you doing it? Oh, he's doing it. Here he goes.

Lisa Rice (17:13.305)
Yay! This is what we hoped for.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:13.85)
It's ridiculous! I can't see it! Yeah, no no.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:23.495)
Turn.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:31.11)
All right, let's do this. Let's do this.

Lisa Rice (17:32.375)
And he eats spermadine rich foods.

Lauren Bernick (17:35.186)
All right, okay, I have a question about nuts, going back to nuts, because I did, now it's gonna fall off, okay. So I did the Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease book and program for six years and actually reversed my heart disease and I didn't eat any nuts, thank you, I didn't eat any nuts for six years, but now that I have proof that I have reversed disease,

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (17:54.91)
I'm fantastic. Congrats.

Lauren Bernick (18:02.278)
I feel like I want to have nuts and I use them in the form of, because I feel like I want to have it because it will help me stick to this lifestyle. I want some damn fat in my life. And the way I use the nuts is I make a nut or a seed sauce to put over my green leafy vegetables and all that. Is that okay or is there a problem with breaking up? Yeah? Yay!

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (18:19.182)
Perfect, perfect. Do it, do it, do it. Whole food sources of fat, nut seeds, nut butter seed, butters and avocados. Do it, do it, do it.

Lauren Bernick (18:30.574)
Okay, I just wanted to.

I just wanted to make sure breaking it up in the Vitamix, like breaking the cell walls wasn't a problem with that.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (18:39.522)
Well, I mean, it's better to eat whole, but better to eat blended than none.

Lauren Bernick (18:45.298)
Okay, because I feel like it's my spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down on my all my vegetables.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (18:49.786)
Oh, well, I mean, it's healthy too. I encourage people to eat a palm full of walnuts every day in how not to age.

Lauren Bernick (18:55.991)
Okay.

Lisa Rice (18:56.211)
Well, and also, Lauren, like we've talked about, you reversed your heart disease, but you learned that you've got the DNA for Alzheimer's in your family. And so that was another question about eating the benefits of nuts.

Lauren Bernick (19:06.622)
Yeah. But I also have completely cleared carotid arteries. I've had a lot of testing and I feel like the diet I'm doing for my heart is the diet you do for Alzheimer's, right? It's same thing. Exactly. Okay. I want to talk about, you touched on this a little bit, but I feel like I have a lot of friends.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (19:19.218)
Indeed, what's good for our heart is good for our head. Indeed.

Lisa Rice (19:22.675)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Lauren Bernick (19:30.434)
who don't believe me, even though they've seen me reverse my heart disease, lose 20 pounds, gain all my health, they still don't believe about eating carbs, like the whole grains and so forth. And you say a low carb diet is a low lifespan diet. Can you just tell us why, like why? Why, tell our friends who won't listen to us to eat some rice, brown rice.

Lisa Rice (19:49.843)
Tell our friends who won't listen.

Lisa Rice (19:56.391)
We're a baked potato.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (19:58.756)
No, I mean, most carbs people eat.

are processed junk, right? So they're eating Twinkies or something. I mean, if Twinkies are your idea of carbohydrates, then of course you want a low carbohydrate diet. But what they're missing is the fact that there are healthy sources, in fact, some of the healthiest foods, such as legumes, whole grains, fruits, they are packed with carbohydrates, but they're healthy for you. In fact, every single Blue Zone centers their diets around whole plant foods, very high-carb.

So, the Okinawan diet, second longest living population in the world, had 80%. So 68% of their diet came from sweet potatoes, 80% of their diet came from— Ah, god damn it! God damn it! All right, god damn it. All right, no, see, this is why— Well, see, I didn't have it set up for the treadmill, really.

Lisa Rice (20:51.655)
Okay, now we're getting real. Ha ha ha!

Lauren Bernick (20:53.143)
This is it.

David (20:59.677)
I just had to come back on to celebrate this moment. It was pretty funny.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:03.994)
Yeah, no, this is, uh, all right. No, it's not great. God damn it. All right. Hold on. I'll be back.

Lauren Bernick (21:05.026)
This is great. Do you need to regroup?

Lisa Rice (21:12.243)
No, we appreciate you, Dr. Greger, though, because we really did wanna see you on the treadmill because we're so used to that. We feel...

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:18.066)
Well, I am, well yeah, all right.

Lauren Bernick (21:18.19)
Thank you for doing that for us. It doesn't.

David (21:20.333)
And listen, don't take up any of your interview time setting back up, because this is just an audio, you know, we'll pull maybe an excerpt for promo, but you know. Okay, that's all I got.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:29.476)
Oh, all right. All right, one more. All right.

Lauren Bernick (21:32.694)
Just keep going. Well, let's do it. And so can we ask you a couple of questions, like a little bit personal, not personal personal, but just how.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:34.038)
Alright, let's do it. God damn it.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:43.878)
Let's do it. No, no, whip it out. I'm an open book.

Lisa Rice (21:48.3)
Ha ha

Lauren Bernick (21:49.95)
We're getting the sassy version today. How much sleep do you get?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (21:56.611)
I've been doing, well, I'm on the road now. 100 cities, six months. So it's really difficult. You know, time zones change every day.

I try to get as much as I can on the road, but it's tough because most of the talks are in the evenings, and so it's like an hour talk, half hour questions, and three hours of book signing, and so I get to bed super late. And then if I'm flying from Denmark to the West Coast, I'm like nine hours off. It's just nasty. But when I'm home, I really do try to take care of myself and get at least seven hours a night.

Lauren Bernick (22:34.506)
What, okay, at least seven hours a night. So you're definitely not getting that. All right. So what, who's your best friend? What's your best friend's name? Is it like a long-term childhood person?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (22:46.111)
Aww, oh my god. Um, probably, uh, Jen Hawk. Dr. Jen Hawk.

Lauren Bernick (22:53.464)
I've heard you speak about her before. She works with you, right?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (22:57.338)
Um, uh, she, uh, we have, I mean, we've done like podcasts together.

Lauren Bernick (23:01.726)
Okay, is she somebody you've known for since childhood or?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:05.286)
No, no, she—just since the pandemic. Oh, by the way, don't listen to anything she has to say about the pandemic. She's a nut when it comes to crazy COVID conspiracy theories. So just because I have tremendous respect for her doesn't mean she's completely 100% wrong when it comes to her beliefs about the pandemic.

Lisa Rice (23:25.445)
Oh no.

So we can be friends and disagree.

Lauren Bernick (23:28.622)
I love that.

Exactly, right. Do you just have like a work relationship, or do you guys do anything fun together?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:32.397)
We can be friends and disagree.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:38.958)
Oh, well, we used to have a romantic relationship, but now we are just canine co-parents.

Lauren Bernick (23:42.709)
Oh!

Lauren Bernick (23:49.634)
Gotcha. Okay, so she's like a partner for you as well. She was, but now she's still your best. I love that she's still your best friend.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:54.222)
She was. Yes.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (23:59.143)
Oh, I'm friends with all my exes.

Lauren Bernick (24:01.692)
Aww. That's, you know what, that's lovely.

Lisa Rice (24:02.723)
I love speaking of canine co-parenting. I love the pictures of your canine companions on Instagram and just laughed out loud when I was reading about the benefits of having a dog and how their heart rate goes down.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:09.586)
Aww.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:17.23)
Oh my god, wasn't that the fun- wasn't that the sweetest thing ever?

Lisa Rice (24:20.867)
Yes.

Lauren Bernick (24:20.926)
Yes. What are your dog's names?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:24.822)
Oh, God, unfortunately, we just lost two of our babies. We lost Mellie and Mo in one month. I mean, they were both very old, but... So we're only down to three dogs, two rabbits, two guinea pigs. And so we have Lucy, Peaches, and Princess are our three remaining dogs.

Lauren Bernick (24:28.382)
Oh no!

Lisa Rice (24:32.247)
I'm so sorry.

Lisa Rice (24:39.069)
Guinea pigs.

Lauren Bernick (24:43.49)
Well, that's so, I'm so sorry. That's so hard.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:46.726)
Yeah, that was very tough.

Lisa Rice (24:47.171)
And you're 51 years old now.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (24:49.76)
I am a D.

Lisa Rice (24:51.947)
And can you share with us, like through this research and the book, there were some surprising things for us. What are some of the surprising things for you? Like was the phycidine and strawberries or the things you learned about mushrooms, has that like influenced your dietary choices or lifestyle choices at all?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (25:12.642)
Oh my god, absolutely. I mean, I learn as much, you know, uh…

writing the book as people get reading the book. I wasn't taught most of this stuff in medical school. In fact, entire fields of science, like the microRNAs, weren't even discovered before I graduated from medical school, challenging the central dogma of biology. So it's not the biggest surprise for me. The exercise thing totally didn't turn out the way I thought. The sleep chapter, red wine, resveratrol, NAD supplements, vitamin D, fish, protein restriction, microRNAs.

In terms of what I've changed in my own diet, now I've included papali, this long pepper, this spice you can get at Middle Eastern spice stores, which has pepper, longa, and a purported senolidic compound. I'm eating more strawberries than I ever have. Fresh frozen or freeze-dried. Wheat germ every day. I'm eating wheat germ, cardamom, a sirtuin-activating compound. I mix that with my cocoa powder. I'm making sure I eat cocoa powder every day. Also eating—

Lisa Rice (26:12.819)
Do you eat mushrooms every day?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (26:14.73)
also eating more mushrooms every day. In fact, I started growing oyster mushrooms. You can, just like you can sprout like broccoli sprouts, you can grow oyster mushrooms. It's so cool. And I also started eating a lot more tempeh.

Lisa Rice (26:21.255)
Yeah, you get the block.

Lauren Bernick (26:27.148)
Oh yeah, I love it.

Lisa Rice (26:28.191)
for the ergothionein in the mushrooms.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (26:31.75)
for ergothinine and the spermidine, both pro-longevity vitamins.

Lisa Rice (26:34.599)
Bermudene, yes, Bermudene.

Lauren Bernick (26:38.27)
Oh, wow. Can you talk about a little bit about the soy myth, too? Because I feel like that's another thing that my friends get caught up on, like, I can't eat soy. Why is soy good for you? Organic soy.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (26:49.67)
Ah!

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (26:53.71)
Yeah, that, uh, that, uh, for some reason, that's just, it's always so misunderstood. People don't understand.

So, there's this thought, well, oh my god, they have phytoestrogens, so they might have estrogenic effects. People don't understand that there's actually two types of estrogen receptors in the body, alpha and beta. The phytoestrogens in soy bind to the beta receptors. Our own estrogen receptors bind preferentially to the alpha receptors, so the effect of soy on different tissues depends on the ratio of alpha to beta. So, estrogen has positive effects on some tissues, but negative effects on others. So, for example, estrogen is good for the bones, bad for the breast.

it would have some kind of selective estrogen receptor modulator. It would have estrogenic effects in some tissues, but anti-estrogenic effects in others, and that's exactly what soy phytoestrogens are. Soy appears to lower breast cancer risk. That's an anti-estrogenic effect. At the same time, reducing menopausal hot flashes. That's a pro-estrogenic effect. So with soy you get the best of both worlds. So we should eat legumes, soy, or other beans,

Lauren Bernick (27:59.918)
Mmm, that's such good news for me. I love soy. I love it. That's my favorite thing. And my dog too.

Lisa Rice (28:05.267)
Well, and anecdotally, some of the longest-living people, soy is such a, just a part of their staple diet, isn't it?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (28:12.03)
So it was the primary protein source of the Okinawan Japanese, but yeah, the second longest living population in the world, second only to the California Adventist vegetarians in Loma Linda, California.

Lisa Rice (28:27.283)
You know, one of the things that we really fight against with this podcast is that you address is like the pills and potions that are sold to us, these anti-aging pills and potions. And one of the surprising things I read in your book too is protecting our skin and a mulliant skin application. Really cool. Can you just touch on that for a sec?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (28:47.264)
Oh, wasn't that cool?

Lauren Bernick (28:48.599)
Yeah!

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (28:52.198)
That was just…oh, that's another thing that I've totally changed in my life. Now I'm applying emollient skin lotion every day. I am greasing up. Yeah, no, exactly. So that's…

Lauren Bernick (28:59.854)
They're greasing up. He lubing it up.

Lisa Rice (29:01.491)
I'm sorry.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (29:05.658)
So, in addition to avoiding the pro-inflammatory food components, and going out of the way to eat anti-inflammatory food components, we can also apply an emollient skin lotion, which originally was shown to decrease inflammation in hairless mice, and then they finally did a randomized controlled trial of elderly men and women, and found that you can significantly reduce systematic markers of inflammation by applying a daily emollient skin lotion.

The skin barrier breaks down as we get older, and so it allows in all sorts of external nasties that kind of inflame our immune system. And so by fortifying the outer layer of our skin by applying emollients, that's why we can get a decrease in inflammation, which plays a critical role in the aging process.

Lisa Rice (30:02.515)
That's incredible.

Lauren Bernick (30:04.191)
What skin care product do you like?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (30:07.274)
Oh, so I used the one that's used in the study, just because that's the one that's been shown to actually help, but any should— so theoretically any should work. Oh, I forget the brand name. But it's in the study.

Lauren Bernick (30:15.822)
Can you say which one it is?

Lisa Rice (30:19.651)
But would you say to look for, just like you would in your packaged food, the one with the least amount of ingredients and recognizable ingredients, what would be your tip for people listening who want to keep their skin?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (30:32.819)
I would tell people to get the cheapest one, because then they can spend more money on kale.

Lisa Rice (30:37.927)
I love it.

Lauren Bernick (30:39.758)
Gosh, that's great. Oh man, so you have no beauty tips for us.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (30:45.693)
I encourage people to get fragrance-free products. I have a video about some of the fragrances that are added to various household products and cosmetic products can actually be harmful.

Lauren Bernick (30:56.586)
Okay. How did you become, how did you find your way to being vegan or whole food plant based?

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (31:03.094)
Oh, it's my grandma. It all goes back to my grandma. I was just a kid when my grandma was sent home in a wheelchair, basically to die. She had a diagnosis of end-stage heart disease, confined in a wheelchair, crushing chest pain. Her life was over at age 65.

But then she heard about this guy Nathan Pritikin, one of our early lifestyle medicine pioneers, and what happened next is actually detailed in Pritikin's biography. He talks about Frances Gregor, my grandmother. They wheeled her in and she walked out. Although she was given a medical death sentence at age 65, thanks to a healthy diet, she was able to enjoy another 31 years on this planet at the age of 96 to continue to enjoy her sick grandkids, including me. So that's why I went into medicine, that's why I practiced lifestyle medicine, why I started NutritionFacts.org,

not to die, why all the proceeds from all the sales of my books are all donated directly to charity. I just want to do for everyone's family what Pritikin did for my family.

Lisa Rice (32:02.403)
are we lucky? And I just want to reiterate what you just said. She did that at 65 and lived an additional 31 years. So it's never good.

Lauren Bernick (32:02.538)
It's so sweet.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (32:10.513)
Amen.

Yeah, yeah, amazing, right? We didn't think heart disease was reversible, but now we know better, and we have proof thanks to Dr. Dean Nornish's lifestyle heart trial, published in one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world in 1990 decades ago, yet hundreds of thousands of Americans continue to die of this preventable, arrestable, reversible condition. It's outrageous, but there are amazing people like you out there spreading the good news that we have this power over our health and longevity.

Lisa Rice (32:37.969)
Ha ha.

Lisa Rice (32:41.615)
Yes, it's never too late.

Lauren Bernick (32:41.926)
Oh, that's, yeah. Never too late, you say that in your book. Okay, we know we're gonna wrap it up soon, but there, we do. Okay, thank you, Dr. Greger.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (32:43.906)
Never too late.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (32:51.182)
I've gotta run! No, no, I've gotta run! Sorry.

Lisa Rice (32:54.46)
Okay, Dr. Greger, thank you so much. How not to age, we will be reading that until we're 100.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (33:01.774)
Ha! And hopefully in beyond.

Lauren Bernick (33:03.696)
Thank you, Len Travis, of being a doctor. Thank you. Thank you for being with us.

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM (33:08.714)
Awesome. Alright, I will keep the window open to upload all the Riverside stuff. Thank you so much everybody, bye!

Lisa Rice (33:09.932)
Right.

Lauren Bernick (33:14.742)
Thank you.

Lisa Rice (33:14.928)
Thank you, Dr. Greger.

Lauren Bernick (33:21.698)
Okay, we really did only get 30 minutes. Should we keep talking or sign off and sign back on?

Lisa Rice (33:28.771)
Is David?

Lauren Bernick (33:34.242)
David?

Lauren Bernick (33:40.878)
I feel like he can't finish up, Dr. Greger can't finish uploading his until we sign off, right? Should we come back on?

Lisa Rice (33:50.45)
I don't know.

Lauren Bernick (33:51.683)
David?

David (33:55.349)
Oh, I'm sorry, my mic was muted. Yeah, let's leave so that the uploads can finish, and then I'll send you a Zoom link. I'll send you a Zoom link.

Lauren Bernick (34:01.154)
So and then come back on. Wait, we're not going to reverse that? Like a.

Lisa Rice (34:04.719)
Okay. Oh, but Lauren wanted to record a...

David (34:09.277)
Oh, oh, right, right. Okay, yeah, so just leave and come back.

Lisa Rice (34:11.716)
to leave.

Lauren Bernick (34:12.787)
Okay, okay, bye.