Age Like a Badass Mother
Why do some people age like depleted versions of their former selves while some age like badass mothers? Irreverent, provocative, engaging, and entertaining, Age Like a Badass Mother is the ANTI Anti-Aging podcast.
With guests who were influencers before that was even a thing, Lisa Rice and Lauren Bernick are learning from the OGs - and flipping the script about growing older.
Learn from the experts and those who are aging like badass mothers!
Age Like a Badass Mother
Alona Pulde, MD - Finding Your Power After 50
Question or comment? Send a text to Age Like a Badass Mother
Why doesn’t America worship older women? In other cultures matriarchy rules! In France, women are sexy, in Japan they are revered, in America, invisible. Dr. Pulde, Lauren and Lisa are determined to change all that as they dive in to what is means for women to find their power at any age.
more on Dr. Pulde here
Buy the book: WELLNESS TO WONDERFUL: 9 Pillars for Living Healthier, Longer, and with Greater Joy
Age Like a Badass Mother is produced by David Rice for Storybeat Media.
ACE Plant-based Eating Course - Wellelephant.com use discount code ACE40
I'm Lauren and I'm Lisa,
Lisa:and we're flipping the script about growing older. Our guests have been influencers since before that was even a thing. Welcome to the Anti Anti Aging Podcast. Welcome
Lauren:to Age Like a Badass Mother.
Lisa:Today, we welcome Dr. Alona Polday, our friend. And a personal mentor of mine, Dr. Poldae Ilona, is incredibly accomplished with an impressive list of titles, including CEO, published author, and mom. Poldae began her career as a doctor in Chinese medicine, practicing acupuncture and Chinese herbology, and then she became a licensed family medicine physician. After discovering the benefits of a whole food plant based diet, and being among the first to center their medical practice on it, Dr. Polday and her husband, Dr. Matthew Lederman, were featured physicians in the seminal film, Forks Over Knives. They went on to co author six books, including the New York Times bestsellers, Forks Over Knives Plan and Forks Over Knives Family. They co founded the Whole Foods Market Medical and Wellness Centers in Southern California and Austin, Texas, and most recently launched WeHeal, a new virtual health care model of nutrition, lifestyle, and connection medicine, while simultaneously releasing their newest book, Wellness to Wonderful, Nine Pillars for Living Healthier, Longer, and with Great Joy. All this while raising two incredible tween girls. Our friend, Dr. Alona Polday, is a pioneer in the field of lifestyle medicine, so we couldn't wait to chat with her about aging like a badass mother. Welcome, Alona.
Alona:Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. What an amazing introduction, Lisa.
Lauren:You know, you actually are a badass mother because we normally mean that like, uh, figuratively, but we mean it literally with you because your daughters are so great. That's a testament to you and
Alona:Matt. Wow, thank you. Well,
Lisa:and for me, like, I take it for granted, all your accomplishments and all the things you do, so it's really fun to be doing this with you today. And, um, and because our podcast is Age Like a Badass Mother, of course, we want to know all your secrets. Um, but we thought we'd start with how old are you and what do you love about this age?
Alona:Oh, my goodness. So I just turned 52 days ago. We're good. I am really, I was actually really excited about turning 50. And, you know, partly because I'm going through Perimenopause, that whole stage of my life right now. And there's so much stigma around it in our culture here. And for me, I've been doing just a lot of reading and a lot of trying to uncover and understand it and step into it with grace. And one of the things that I came across in my reading was how different our culture perceives. This aging process and how it's received in other cultures. And this time of getting into 50 and stepping into perimenopause and menopause is a celebration of womanhood, is an opportunity to kind of step into yourself and for the first time in many of our lives, really focus in on who we are, who we want to be in this next chapter. So I was really excited and, and continue to be so. Well, amen to
Lisa:that. And, um, you're going to have to share and we'll put it in our link. Some of the resources you recommend, because I agree. And I think Lauren would too, that we do need to celebrate the elders, the wisdom and all the things we have to offer, especially as women, mothers and CEOs. And
Alona:I love it. You said that the word elders, you know, because that was another thing that I was reading was the difference between. In our society, it's not elders, it's elderly, which is associated with frailty. You know, you're old, you're worn out, you're weak versus an elder. You know, you're respected, you're wise, you're strong, you're experienced. So, so different. It is. It is. How do we change that? What else do you love
Lauren:about being 50 in your two days experience?
Alona:Yes, well, it's, it's still pretty fresh and new for me. But I. I'm looking at this as this is the next phase in my life, and I feel empowered for the first time to navigate it with agency, with agency that I, I don't think until now, and that feels great. It feels really empowering. It feels It's really liberating, um, it feels powerful, and I, I love it. I'm really looking forward to that and to giving thought to how do I want to show up and how wonderful it is to have that agency and to be able to slow down enough. You know, in the past, there's been so much about doing, doing, doing, doing, you know, achieving. And it's great to accomplish. And I feel so grateful for my experiences and for the stuff that I have accomplished and for raising my daughters and for kind of doing it all. But it came at a cost and the cost was constantly doing, going from one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next. And I don't think I ever really was able to sit down and evaluate, like, What do I want my life to look like, except from being all of these other things, you know, just being me. That's really
Lisa:empowering and inspiring. And we need to get you on Oprah talking about that. So, because you know, what you're talking about is you're in this new season of life. And I think that we all have this. fear of aging. And what you're explaining is this continued
Alona:growth. Absolutely. Absolutely. Did you feel like,
Lauren:okay, I turned 50 and now I have this agency or what, what brought this feeling upon? Or is it just something that you'd like sailed into slowly?
Alona:I would say it was active. Like it's a, it's been an active process for maybe as I've been exploring. This whole perimenopause phase, which I think, you know, there's such a discredit to women going through this process. It's especially in our society because nobody wants to say I'm perimenopausal or I'm menopausal because what that means is I'm worn out. I'm washed out. I'm old. I'm going to be replaced with a new model. You know, there's so much. And so we hush it up, but it's, it's a really, it's a big deal. And for a lot of people, it's not just that transition of, you know, stepping into a whole new phase. It's lifting all of that. Yeah. stigma that comes from our society and kind of standing alone in the empowerment when around this word perimenopause or menopause is that stigma of lack of power, actually. So there's that piece. And then there are for a lot of people, the physical manifestations of this stage. There's, you know, there's a lot of literature on, oh yeah, you get hot flashes, and oh yeah, you get this, and oh yeah, you get that, and, oh, these are all the hidden symptoms that you can get, but nobody's really talking about, hey, this was my experience. And this was what I found worked for me, or, you know, there were times where I was, you know, I was talking to a friend and she actually, like, I was shocked that she, she told me, you know what, Alana, the thing that I remember most about that stage of my life was how anxious I felt most of the time. And nobody talks about that. So they, you feel alone in this hormonal fluctuation that we know is a real deal, right? Mm hmm. And you feel alone. Nobody Because you don't, you don't feel comfortable talking about it. And then whatever it is that it's manifesting as, you're holding that by yourself, which I think, you know, not only a disservice, but kind of a form of trauma that we create in our Well, there's
Lisa:a lot of discomfort having been through, you know, perimenopause and menopause and on the other side of it. There's definitely a lot of discomfort that we fear. And you know, with the best of intentions, I'm like, I'm going to write it out. I'm just going to write it out, you know, and I'm going to suck it up and I'm going to deal with the hot flashes and the night sweats and, and everything that comes with it. But at a certain point I was like, this is not fun. And it wasn't even the hot flashes and the night sweats. It was more the moodiness. And the low libido, which wasn't good for my marriage and the dry, you know, the vaginal dryness and I'm like, that part I was really struggling with. And I, um, so one of the things I wanted to ask you about is, um, your thoughts on bioTE di bioidentical hormones and other. Supplemental things that are, uh, common for going through menopause.
Alona:Can I just
Lauren:say before you explain that, Ilona, can you, for people who don't know, like, the difference, what, what pairing menopause is,
Alona:and then explain that? Yeah. So perimenopause is the stage where you're getting the hormone fluctuations that are eventually going to become menopause. Menopause is defined as not having your period for an entire year. Leading up to that, you know, there are a whole lot of fluctuations and for different people it can look very different. It could be having more irregular periods. It could be the hot flashes or the night sweats or the anxieties or the fears or the moodiness or the low libido. Or headaches or, you know, it depends how sensitive you are to the, the hormonal fluctuations that are taking place leading up to menopause. I would think genetics would play a role as well. Yeah. I'm
Lauren:55. I don't even think I'm in perimenopause yet. I don't have it. I mean, I have to be, obviously, but I don't feel like I have any of those symptoms yet. Yeah. Am
Alona:I going to have my period forever? Some people and some people don't. You know, it's, it's a lot of, uh, it's a very individual process and it's multifactorial. I think it doesn't just depend on, you know, I read a book, I think it was by Christine Northrop, but I, um, it was, uh, Women's bodies, women's wisdom, or something like that. Jeanne Northrup. Christine Northrup. Yeah. Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous. Um, but it was a long time ago, and it was talking about periods. And what they said was that, what she said was, they're so linked to our emotional state that if we have a really bad month, we will experience It's a period that is more painful or more discomfort versus if we have an emotionally, you know, positive month, our period might be light and we won't feel anything and there won't be any PMS or anything like that. So it's really connected. Yeah, that's a mind body connection. Yeah. And I, I believe that menopause is similar. I believe that the things that we are experiencing emotionally. Also, our manifesting physically and how we tolerate our hormonal shifts will be impacted by that. And so, as for what to do with that, you know, that also has to be an individual decision. And I think every woman needs to self reflect and figure out what's best for them. I, I think soldiering up is the one thing that I don't wish upon anyone. It's hard enough. You know, and there are so many things that are available to us now, from herbal supplements to bioidentical hormones, you know, to, I mean, there's so many different things that people can try. And I imagine a diet and lifestyle
Lisa:is a big part of it as well, right? I mean,
Alona:that's your expertise for sure. Absolutely. Diet and lifestyle is huge. You know, I obviously am a big advocate of a whole food, plant based diet. The more whole foods, the more plant foods, the more foods that we can bring in to really nourish our system. Um, foods that are devoid of added hormones and chemicals and pollutants. And, you know, so we're really detoxifying our system too, with the foods that we're eating is a huge benefit. And outside of diet is lifestyle, is how we choose to live our lives. And for many of us, it's, you know, that's where our nine pillars kind of come into play. And I think that they all really align with this conversation. So we're getting enough sleep. We're moving our bodies in the way that they were meant to be moved, whether it's formal exercise or, you know, more play type exercise or spontaneous movement, but we're moving throughout the day and we're playing and we're laughing and we're connecting. We're connecting to ourselves. We're connecting to others. We're connecting to the natural world. So many of us. That's a little to no contact with the natural world. And that's beneficial to our system.
Lisa:What you're describing is kind of what you talked about earlier in, I think there's a big connection there with the difference between the way we view elders in this country, the elderly versus other cultures and countries that view the elders as. the wise ones. And, and in those cultures, you see more of these pillars as part of their daily life, wouldn't you say?
Alona:Absolutely. You know, Dan Buettner has that series now on the centurions and it's fantastic. And every one of those builds on that same idea. These people are living into their hundreds. Because of the richness in their lives, all of the things that they have incorporated from what they eat, to how they live their lives, to the people that they surround themselves with, you know, those are all huge components. And I think what's happening here in America a lot of the time is We're living in what we call a mobilized state. We are constantly in this fight or flight state that is wreaking havoc on our systems. That is keeping us in that sympathetic, high stress state. So disconnected. Yeah. Completely disconnected with a scarcity, fear based mentality so that everything becomes really small. You know, we become really small. I was
Lisa:just thinking while you were talking about elders in these communities aging well, I want to say to listeners, and Lauren and I, um, had this experience where we went to Chef A. G.'s conference in Sacramento on Sunday, and there were several elders there. We're talking 70s, 80s, 90s, like the guy who was in a wheelchair, he was 80 years old, he had heart disease. His fate was in stone until he completely changed to a whole food plant based diet. He created this community around him and now he's what, what, how old was he? 87. And he's like out exercising. He looks like he's 20 years younger. There's a woman who was in her seventies. She changed a lot of things in her life. She lost the 130 pounds she needed to lose. Same thing, like she looks maybe 15, 20 years younger, um, and then there, of course, there was the hundred year old doctor who, who spoke, but, um, I think my point that I want to make to anyone listening is that even if you haven't, you're not part of this community that has been living this way, it's never too late to create that for yourself and to become healthy and, and live the last chapter of your life really well.
Alona:I love that, Lisa. I love that you're never too young to start. You're never too old to start. And the benefits that you reap are, are actually happen really quickly. Can you tell us like quickly the
Lauren:nine pillars? And I have the book here if you, I mean,
Alona:I'm sure you know what they are. So the nine pillars start with self. And that's a really important place to begin because connecting to yourself is the first part of living. A more wonderful and and richer life. It's really discerning and for some people, for the first time really discerning who am I? Who do I wanna be, how do I wanna show up? What is the life that I want to live? And then how do I get there? You know, we talk. Yeah. You don't have to turn 50 to do that. Yeah. You could do that at any time, any age. Yep. And connecting to, we talk a lot about compassionate communication or non violent communication, connecting to our needs. When we connect to our needs, we have pleasant feelings. When we are disconnected from our needs, we have unpleasant feelings. So, so that self, that opportunity to connect to self and to see what am I needing and then how do I. Get those needs met. I want to interrupt you
Lisa:for one second because I want to point out that this is not Selfish and I know you're gonna go on to talk about this But I think what we don't realize is that many of us are Disconnected from ourselves by the way, we were raised and it's not any fault of ours and that it takes some awareness to to even Know that connecting with the self isn't like some selfish You know, it's all about me. It's, it's the thing that enables you to, to branch out into these other areas. So now I'm going to let you take it from there.
Alona:I actually, I love that. It's not a privilege. It's a, it's a, it's actually a necessity and I'll get to the rest of the nine pillars in a second. But that's a really important point is we, when we are young, we depend on our parents for our survival, literally. And so for many of us, we have to suppress and repress. Our own needs to be accepted, to be loved, to have the reassurance that we will be taken care of. That is, and so for a lot of us, we lose our sense of self, whether it's from parents or in traditional schools where the teachers and, and an authority, an authoritarian kind of model is built. Um, we lose ourselves along the way in jobs where bosses. You know, uh, also deliver an authoritarian kind of work environment. And so we lose our
Lisa:intuition because we're looking to the outside to tell us to validate the things that we're feeling and, and
Alona:needing. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And. And so we lose our sense of self throughout. And so this is a time to connect to yourself. And when I say it's a necessity for me, it's like when you're on a plane and they tell you, you need to put your oxygen mask on first. Do not try and save your children first because you will pass out and none of you will make it. Right. So this is that final example. In order for you to be able to even care, really be available to others, you need to hone in on self first. Yes. Otherwise, we deplete ourselves. We are completely exhausted. We get sick. We can't be available. We can't, not only we don't enjoy our lives, but we don't enjoy our life with others. And there are so many
Lisa:simple tools that you provide in the book that really help you to connect with yourself. It's not like this big thing that you have to do and start this, you know, uh, sessions with a therapist. It's not like that at all. They're just really simple grounding tools that you and Dr. Letterman provide. I just want to put that
Alona:out there. Well, thank you, Lisa. Yeah, yeah, there are, there are numerous tools and, um, one of the most helpful for me is a list of feelings and needs. Build vocabulary and awareness around what am I even needing? Because so many of us, if we think about having needs, we think about being needy. And they're not equivalent. And so getting familiar with, Oh yeah, I'm needing rest. Oh yeah, I'm needing creativity. I'm needing, um, I'm needing peace, you know, and then how do I meet those needs? Yeah. So I don't push myself to depletion. Yeah. So, so now we're at. Self. And then from the self, we go to the areas in our internal world that we can optimize on our own. So those are things like sleep, getting enough sleep, um, activity, getting movement and nutrition, of course. And then play, play, which is really important and long forgotten, especially among adults. What are some examples of playing for adults? Yeah. So. There are many different personalities for play and so it really can depend on what your personality is. Some people are storytellers and so for them, reading a great book, watching a great movie, um, engaging in a theater, you know, a theater production, that's play, you know, or storytelling. Some people are jokers, so they love telling jokes and that's their form of play. Some people are, are kinetic.
Lauren:Stand up comedy, Lauren. Yes.
Alona:Some people like very, very good at that . Okay. Some people like creativity, so art or drawing or uh, cooking for me it's, is a form
Lisa:of play. Well,
Alona:that's
Lauren:okay. So this sounds, 'cause when you say play, it sounds a little scary to me. Like, what do I have to do? Go out and like head a softball'cause that sounds awful.. Yeah. Gab
Alona:the monopoly board.
Lisa:It's
Lauren:playing in the instrument, right? Right? Yes. We always enjoy it. The things you
Lisa:want to do. Yeah. I mean, it could be jumping a rope or riding a bicycle, but it's the thing that allows you to not have a goal, right? Right. Alona, it's the thing that allows you to sort of get in a flow where you get lost in time. So if you play the piano or you're cooking, like for me, it's cooking. For some people, they're like, ah, that's a chore. But for me, I love to cook. So that's my play.
Alona:It's something that you can do for its pure enjoyment, not because it has some kind of objective or you're getting some kind of outcome. And so, so yeah, it can come in, in a lot, a lot of different forms. Why is that? I don't have
Lauren:to hit a ball. Nope.
Alona:Nope.
Lisa:Basketball. That's play for
Alona:me. Yeah. Yeah. So there are so many different ways that we can play. But for, for again, for so many of us, because it's a do, do, do, do, do, and we're working on that survival. mentality and state, there is no time where we're actually doing something that doesn't involve some kind of outcome. I'm doing this because I need to get that done, and I need to get this done, and I need to get, you know, even if we go out and play basketball, it's because I need my exercise. And especially
Lisa:people who work really hard to pay the bills to support their family. They have a mortgage or they have a rent and they have all these bills. It's especially important because I think a lot of times we feel like we don't deserve to take the time to play. That by doing that, we're neglecting some responsibility. Can you speak to that? Because I think a lot of people think, Oh, that's for people who have
Alona:time. Right, right. I think that's a big, I think all of those, I think getting enough sleep, I think eating well, you know, um, finding time for exercise, and then, of course, finding time for play, which feels so indulgent. Uh, is, is that same, it goes back to that same state of mobilization in our survival mode. We develop a scarcity mentality and a scarcity mentality keeps us afraid. I must do X, I must start, you know, keep checking off the boxes on the list because if I don't do that, we're not going to survive. But what happens is it's a vicious cycle, which is. The more we do that, the more we're depleting ourselves, the more mobilized we are, the more we step into that scarcity mentality. And so we're kind of, you know, going down. Digging deeper and deeper and deeper into this hole. And some of the, one of the things that play, for example, can provide is you can't be mobilized and playing at the same time. So physiologically,
Lisa:your body. It's actually healthier when you take the
Alona:play break. Yes. You step into a state of, if we consider mobilization a kind of danger state, step into a state of safety. And in that state, feeling an expansiveness. and creativity and intimacy and all the things that fill up our cup are able to come back. Versus in the other stage, we're just draining and draining. And
Lisa:yeah, I think that most people don't even realize they're in survival mode most of the time. You know, I think that it's become so normal. But then when you do take a five minute wordle break or, or shoot some hoops or hop on your bike for 10 minutes, And you've noticed a difference in how you feel because physiologically you're actually giving your body a break at saying thank
Alona:you, right? Yes. And you know, I want to, I want to actually get back to that break because that break is, it's actually necessary for our survival. We call it survival mode, but really that's the way we're living in survival mode is toward extinction, burning the candle at both ends and we will eventually burn out. Right? In, uh, historically, ancestrally, um, the, the way that stress works is it's a burst of stress that then we get to relax from, we get to come down from. Our body has some time to recover. And right now we are constantly in that state. There is no recovery time at all. Right. And that's where we're going to burn out. So that play, um, you know, feeding your body while sleeping and having a chance to restore, all of that helps the recovery, which is absolutely necessary for us to live a long, healthy, vibrant, joyful life. Right. So what you're
Lisa:saying is stress is necessary. But we need to get out of this constant level of stress that we don't even realize we're in most of the time. Because for our ancestors it was like they had needed the stress to run from the tiger and then get safe. But we're constantly running from the
Alona:tiger in our heads. Yes. Yes. Right. And we don't recognize we're in survival mode, but I would bet most people listening to this, and most people that you talk to will relate to. I'm always feeling tired. I just feel depleted. I'm so burnt out. I'm exhausted. I have so much to do. Thank you. Thank you. Ben. What does
Lauren:that do for aging? That's
Alona:right. moves you out. It burns you out. If you look at it as age, it burns you out. Yeah, well, that answers
Lisa:the question. Why do some people age well and others don't? If we don't address those things, then, then we're not going to
Alona:have a chance, right? Exactly. Exactly. So we talked about, I'm going to get back to the pillars, because the other part of it is also really important. So now that we've kind of internalized or optimized that internal state, you know, the things that we can do ourselves. The next part of it is connecting to our external world. So it's connecting to our most important relationships where that, whether that's our family of origin or, you know, the family that we've created our friends. And by work I mean meaning and purpose. So finding our meaning and purpose whether it's in our actual job or in other things that we do to bring us meaning and purpose. Connecting to spirituality and that could again be so individual, anything from organized religion to meditation practices, to being out in the natural world. But it's connecting to this notion that there's something bigger than us out there. We are not alone. And, and instilling that, that notion of interdependence and then a connection to our natural world, which is a connection to all. You know, living, living things on this planet. Uh.
Lisa:You know, Alonda, I just want to interrupt again because I want listeners to know that, like for me, I don't live close to my immediate family, so I don't get to, we're all spread out. So for me, my, my community. would be my friends, right? Um, my husband, obviously I have a partner and I have a son, but, but really it's the community you also create and the people we work with, like you said, like creating and having the awareness of self to be able to make those connections in a way that nurtures
Alona:us. Absolutely. For sure. Yes. It's community is surrounding yourself with your people and those people who can be, like I said, family of origin. It could be friends. It could be coworkers. Um, you know, they come in a lot of different forms, but it's really, it's in person connections with others. And that is nourishing. That supports health and wellbeing. Um, and it's not a nice to have, it's actually a need to have.
Lisa:Well, we saw that after the pandemic, didn't we, when we were on lockdown and we were all isolated. Right? And now mental health crises went through the roof. There were a lot of physical, um, illnesses that
Alona:came out of that. We're still seeing that, you know, there's still a fear based mentality. That keeps us worried about in person connections, worried about getting back out into the world. And again, it's that same, you know, we talked about when you have that scarcity mentality, the world becomes very small and constricted. And so being in isolation for such a long time, we be, we Kind of get into this box and getting out of that box feels very uncomfortable. Yeah. And so it really is, you know, Lauren, when you were asking me earlier about how I kind of got to that realization of what I want this next phase to look like, it involves an active process. It's saying, Hey, I don't want to be in this box anymore. I want to be more expansive. I want to be bigger than this. And I'm going to step out of my comfort zone. I'm going to explore different things. I'm going to recognize that, you know, I love that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. So it's really, it's doing something different. Well, I think
Lisa:mindset has a lot to do with that. I think just knowing that you have permission, giving yourself permission to be open to possibilities other than what you think you need to do. Like for instance, you're never too old. to start that first, that book you want to write, or pick up that instrument you want to play, or look into a new career, frankly.
Alona:Yeah. And, or find, you know, it's, it's also little things like, and Lisa, I love that you mentioned that, like, it doesn't have to be big, big changes. It could be small ripples that you're making in your day to day, you know, things like, you know, taking the stairs instead of the elevator as. part of increasing your movement for the day. Going to sleep half an hour earlier. Um, doing something that engages you in play for five minutes a day. You know, dance to a song. That's three minutes. You know, um, smile. Yes. Smiling. Smiling at somebody that you see down the street or as you're driving, wave to someone that you're not. You know, that
Lisa:makes such a big difference in your mood, like if you're in a grumpy mood and you're out and you smile at someone and they smile back, it could change your
Alona:whole day. Absolutely. And that's, that's physical, that there's a biological chemical reaction that's happening there because it's bidirectional, right? We can think positive thoughts and feel happy, we can feel happy to emanate those positive thoughts. So there, so smiling. It tells your body, it takes you out of that mobilization state, tells your body, Oh, I am city. It's okay. Body relaxes. And yeah, you feel that. It's different. And
Lisa:also adding, uh, some greens to your lunch or some berries to your breakfast. Yes.
Alona:Yes.
Lisa:Yeah.
Alona:Yeah. Absolutely. That's
Lauren:true. So are those all the nine pillars? Did you do
Alona:Yeah. You did all, all the, the natural
Lauren:that's like, and by the way, our own, Lisa Rice was a contributor to that book,
Alona:wasn't she? In in so many ways? She was an absolute contributor to that book. There
Lisa:well go. I gotta say that's a good example of it's never too late to do the thing that you wanna do because I've always wanted to be a writer and thanks to Matt Malona, I had the opportunity to be part of this book. Um. In my late fifties, almost 60 on the verge of
Alona:the act like, yes, it's not to be woman of many talents, not only in writing the book, but in her amazing cooking prowess and her recipes and, you know, she, my daughter, Lisa, Bill talks about how you were saving grace for her. Um, I, I can share that story if that's okay, but is that, Oh, yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. So my daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's, um, at the end of May this year. And that was a really big shock to our family, an opportunity to humbly look at our own nine pillars and where we really fell short for her and for the family. And she's 12, right? Yes, she's gonna be 12 in January. Yeah, and one of the things that we needed for her, she became, you know, over time in our effort to try and kind of get her gain, to gain social acceptance, you know, she's already a vegan and she eats different than most vegans. And we became really lax with her diet such that she stayed vegan, but she was pretty much junk food vegan. And so we really needed to revamp her whole diet. And, and it was really challenging because she'd gotten used to these very rich calorie dense flavors. Veggie
Lisa:grill and places like that where me and her friends can all go
Alona:together because there's something for everyone, right? Exactly. And come in Lisa, who has muffins and hot dog and Amber, you know, and, and, and veggie burgers. Um, and all of those things were so helpful. In fact, Kylie and Lisa did a cooking, um, zoom at one point where they were both making the muffins that she absolutely fell in love with. I would say that
Lisa:all that we have. We've got three women here for our listeners who are all multifaceted. Um, we've got Alona who just turned 50. We've got Lauren who's 55, right? And I just turned 60. And um, I would say that we all share the mindset that you're describing, and we all have many things that we do. Lauren, as well, with Well Elephant, is an incredible cook and, uh, inspiration and influencer for women, especially women who are facing heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and then, of course, Ilona, you are Our, uh, I would say mentor and inspiration to, from the beginning with all the things that you do. So I think we all share that in common. Thank you.
Alona:What, Berlota,
Lauren:how did, how did you come to be in Forks Over Knives? I don't know the story and for, I mean, I'm sure most. I don't know if most people have heard of that or not, but I feel like most people who come to uh, veganism or eating a plant based diet, a lot of that is through their entryway because they've seen Forks Over Knives, uh, the
Lisa:documentary. Have you ever heard the
Alona:story?
Lauren:being in that,
Alona:the doctors. I would say luck was upon us. So we had done a lot of training with Dr. John McDougall, um, up in Santa Rosa. He was running 10 day emergence. He was actually my mentor. Um, for the nutrition and lifestyle component and, and I was, you know, both Matt and I were fortunate. Uh, Dr. McDougall let us not only sit in and participate in the emergence, but also see patients with him during the emergence. So he was hugely inspirational in our practice. The Forks Over Knives producers actually reached out to him to let him know they were looking for doctors in Los Angeles who were practicing nutrition and lifestyle medicine. He recommended me and Matt. And the immersions, like
Lauren:these are people who are ill and then they start eating a whole food plant based diet and then that's what you're referring to
Alona:by immersions, correct? So, Lauren, that was one of the things that, you know, when I first met Matt, he was already kind of delving into nutrition and lifestyle medicine. They met in medical school. Yes. Aww. We met actually at the, I was in residency, yeah, and, um, and he had already been exploring and introduced me to Dr. McDougall and Furman and Esselstyn and Campbell and, and Dean Ornish and, you know, all of the, uh, All of the amazing physicians in the field and Dr. McDougall, we were both in California and Dr. McDougall happened to be in California and was very willing to let us come up and stay with him and, but that was the turning point for me is. I went to my first immersion, it's 10 days, and there are people coming in with high blood pressure, um, heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, rheumatoid arthritis, other autoimmune conditions, you know, you name it and they're there and they're sick at that point. And in 10 days of not only getting the The information on a, on a whole food plant-based diet, but eating the food three times a day. And this is like buffet style food. All you, it's a lot of food. all, and I'm not talking salad, I'm talking veggie burgers and lasagnas and sometimes desserts and pasta. Pancakes. Yeah, pancakes and, and french toast. I mean, it was surreal. And then in between that you also had. snacks, unlimited amount of snacks. And so it was like being on a cruise, okay, as far as the food was concerned. In 10 days, people not only lost weight, but they got off their medications for blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol medication, some of them, you know, in that 10 days for any kind of arthritic or autoimmune conditions. I mean, it was insanity to see what you could do. 10 days and conventional Western medicine couldn't do in a lifetime. Right. And
Lauren:then, you know, disclaimer, I mean, Lisa and I, We, we want to examine like why people, some people are aging well and others aren't and advice for aging well, but you know, we kind of come to this through, the first thing you could do is kind of start eating at least more fruits and vegetables and beans and Things like that. So we're, because it makes a huge difference. Well, I
Lisa:think that's why we're here. Aging well, right? I mean, that's why we're here. I mean, we, we, we've experienced it personally, right? Lauren, you reversed your heart disease in your 40s with a whole food plant based diet. I had an incredible health transformation when I was in college, going whole food plant based. So I think that, um, that's why we're so excited about it. It's like, we know, right? We know. And that's where Alona. You and Matt, who are doctors and obviously have spent your career, um, educating and sharing this is,
Alona:uh, huge. Yeah. You know,
Lauren:um, Eloda, I wanted to ask you, we, we sort of got off the, the menopause and bio identical. But I want me to go back to that for a second if you don't mind because you had mentioned like a feeling of going through it alone. And can you, can you kind of tell us some of the things, like maybe some of the symptoms you're having and some of the specific things that you're doing so that other women don't have to feel like they're so
Alona:alone in this? Yeah. Yeah. I just one minute just going back to that. I mean, it really is. What you're putting inside our skin is part of our organ systems, right? Just like we nourish our heart, we nourish our liver, our kidneys, we nourish our brain, we nourish our skin with the food that we eat too. So if we think of, you know, eating the most, the food's highest in vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, phytochemicals, fiber, all of that stuff, it's going to come out flourishing in our skin. If we think of the greasy, heavy, Oily, calorie dense, you know, junk foods, preservatives and hormones and chemicals that's gonna come out in our skin, right. At how we look and how we age and how we feel. Mm-Hmm, . So, so it's just really important to remember that too, you know? Yeah, it's such a good point. It's a great point. So I, I, yeah, I just wanted to add to that and then, um, how I, what am I experiencing in my perimenopause and what are you doing? Yeah, so for me, it's, it's been, um, I have the occasional hot flash. I have, you know, some night sweats, but I think I have, um, as a baseline, kind of a fear base. state, you know, that I have to actively step out of, and I, and that comes from, um, when I was in my second year of medical school, my father passed away suddenly at the age of 55. He was hiking up a mountain here in California, and he just collapsed at the top. And it was completely sudden, it was completely unexpected, and it was absolutely devastating. And for me, after that, there were you know, a couple of years that I just felt completely numb and I did not want to open up or allow love or everybody that was in my circle was in my circle. I couldn't kick them out. Nobody knew is coming into the circle because I couldn't handle, you know, losing something else that I loved so, so, so much. And then I met Matt and he ruined everything. And, and then we had our daughters. And that whole notion of like, I can't imagine anything that I love more in life. And, you know, and, and so that some, you know, so what I notice sometimes is stepping back into that fear based mentality. Oh, I got to keep the girls safe. I, I got to make sure I, you know, and it becomes this like micromanaging kind of staying high alert and high anxiety. So, I've been doing a lot of reflection work. I've been really actively slowing it down. Um, journaling is something that has helped me immensely and in journaling I do a lot of expressive writing. And expressive writing different from journaling that, you know, sometimes like when I journal, I usually save my whatever I'm writing, and I could go back and reflect on it. When I'm expressive writing, it's with the intent of I'm going to destroy this paper when I'm done. And what I've noticed In that is that there's this freedom of expression. No one is going to see this. No one. I can release uninhibited anything that comes to mind. Is that what you do when you get mad at Matt? Yes. And at High Road Earl's and at, yes. And then it goes into the shredder. Okay, I'm doing that
Lisa:today. It's
Alona:so liberating, I feel like, almost like I'm, you know, and this is maybe a little foo foo for some people, but I'm sharing it with the universe. And we're kind of holding it together, you know, and then it goes away. But I don't hold it inside anymore. I've expressed it and I really like go through it all, you know. Yeah. And you're allowing
Lisa:yourself to have those emotions. You're not feeling guilty about it or you're not taking it out on anybody. You're just allowing them to
Alona:happen, which is important, right? Yes. Yes, and I'm mourning where I need to mourn and I'm afraid where I need to be afraid and I, and then I let it go, you know, a lot of times we're afraid of these unpleasant feelings because we think I open up Pandora's box to sadness, I'm going to feel sad for the rest of my life, but nobody's sad for the rest of their lives and nobody's happy for the rest of their lives, you know, Feelings come and go. And the only way that they stay stuck is if we don't let them out. Yes.
Lauren:Feeling your feelings is so important. And I will tell you, you know, everybody has good and bad about their parents, but I have said one of the best things that my mother always told me is to feel my feelings and I am entitled to my feelings. As they come up, I really do. I really feel my feelings and I'll cry and I'll do whatever until I'm done with it and then
Alona:I'm done. I'm
Lauren:done. And I feel like that's been so helpful to me in my life for not being
Alona:stuck, you know? You know, Lauren, I, I would gauge that that's, those kind of strategies are the things that are contributing to you having a smoother sailing perimenopause. I would bet on it. I bet you're right. Like I'm trying to
Lisa:imagine my parents telling me that when I was a kid. Instead it was like reactive to my emotions. Like don't cry. Yeah. Why are you so mad? Why are you in a bad mood? You know, like, you know, like always questioning the feelings. But if they just said it's okay to feel your feelings, feel your feelings. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Lauren:Right. Yeah. Now I'm not saying it's always like that.
Lisa:Yeah. No. But just having that. Totally. Yeah. It
Lauren:was a very good thing for me. Yeah. So what else? Are you doing anything else? Are you doing herbs
Alona:or? You know, I was doing herbs for a little while. And what herbs? I did. So I, Dr. Fuhrman has something called Mood Biotech, which I really, really liked for a while. Lately, I have not. And I am really trying to, I think I really want to tap in and I really want to, to, See what is behind because I think a lot of it for me is Manifestations of where my emotional state is. Hmm. Actually I can tell you I've noticed And the last, I would say four or five months, a huge difference in where I'm at with that. I really set the intention to slow it down because what would happen also is there's this cyclical thing of, Oh, I'm feeling this. What is this? Oh, you know, let me go look it up. What does that mean? Each of those steps takes you into that high alert state where it's like, perimenopause is kind of going to be a roller coaster and it's going to hit me with things I may not be comfortable with that I don't like, you know, but I'm going to explore them and I'm going to make space for them. I'm going to journal about them. I also do, I do a lot of, um, especially in the family because it's fun to do with the family and helpful for the girls too, is a lot of breathing. You know, techniques for relaxation during the day. I love music, so music has come back into my life. I, like, my, my decadent, I love musical theater. So, I notice when I start getting, like, I, I, by slowing down, I just want to, I'm checking, I, uh, use a barometer, kind of. You know, and I'm checking, we call it a check in meter, where I'm checking my state, you know, where am I on the calm to high anxiety state? And it's, let's say a zero to 10. If I start noticing that I'm a six or seven, I pause and I start thinking about that. Why am I a six or seven before what was happening before is I would get to eight or nine and that's reactivity already. 8, 9, 10, reactive. The frontal part of my brain, the executive decision making isn't happening anymore. It's year based. The default is scarcity mentality. The default is all of those things, right? So what musical do you play? Oh, I love, I'm a little fan of the opera. It really takes me down, or Guys and Dolls, like I love all those old musicals. Oh my God,
Lauren:that's so funny. Yeah. So don't jam it out to the chili
Alona:peppers or anything. You know, I can jam out to the Chili Peppers too, but that, I don't know, maybe it's nostalgic for me. That was something that, uh, my dad really liked. You know, we went to a musical theater all the time. Fiddler
Lisa:on the Roof is one of my favorites.
Alona:Oh my gosh. That's so funny.
Lisa:Um, I want to be mindful of time. Lauren, is there anything we didn't ask, and Alona, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Lauren:Well, we always I want to ask that, um, how old would
Alona:you be if you didn't know how old you were? Oh my gosh, you know, I was telling my daughters the other day that if you don't mind your age then it doesn't matter. And so, I don't know what, what age, like to me it almost doesn't matter, I'd just be me. I really like the age that I am right now, and to go back to being 20. Or 30. There would be so many things that I wouldn't have that I have now. You know? I agree. I like where I am now. Yeah.
Lisa:Well, me too. And I'm the old lady here. And I really appreciate all the experience and the knowledge and the things that I have in my life now that I didn't have in my 40s, 30s, 20s. Um, but it also depends on the day.
Alona:Oh gosh,
Lauren:thank you for sharing all your knowledge and we're so lucky to have had you today to talk to us.
Alona:I love it. So grateful. Oh yes. That would be the only other thing that I would add is I, I just, I'm so excited to be here, and I feel so honored to be talking to you guys, and I admire what you're doing, and I love this conversation, and um, I don't
Lisa:know when this exactly will air, but I suspect the women's circle that you've created will be ongoing. Do you want to talk about that just for a sec? Just tell us what it is and who you're doing it with and how to, how to
Alona:do it. Yeah, I am really, really, this is one of the, my passions for this next phase in my life is really to focus on empowering women, women finding their voices, women accepting where they are, women finding agency, women owning their shadows and, um, and awakening their gifts. You know, so much of that, uh, naming menopause, naming perimenopause, talking about our symptoms, talking about what we're doing to help, you know, and, and helping each other thrive. And so one of the things that I'm doing with my sister in law, really good friend and partner at work for a very long time, Simone Letterman, who's also a trauma recovery therapist and super talented woman. So she and I are running a women's circle. It really is a sacred, safe space for women to just come and be themselves and be accepted and hear others and share what's in their hearts. It sounds
Lisa:like something that you're going to be doing for a long time. It sounds almost like you can join the circle and be part of this community. Like you're building a community. Would you say that's what
Alona:it is? Yes. Okay. And you can find it on WeHeal. Health. Lots of other information and
Lisa:classes and sessions and all kinds of really good information about aging well. Aging like a badass mother. That's right. Aging like a badass mother.
Lauren:Uh huh.